Digital BW, The Print

I noticed on the MIS site under "News" the mention that the Full 
Spectrum quad inks can be use with either the Epson driver using John 
Woolf's workflow or with the Piezo driver.

They said,

"We had some confusion on the workflow by John Woolf. It has been 
corrected now. Thank you for your patience. If you use this with the 
Epson driver, it makes great quad tone prints. The Full Spectrum inks 
will work with either the Epson driver or the Cone driver."

Can someone give some first hand reports comparing the MIS FS inks 
and Piezo inks with the Piezo driver? Is this a less expensive way to 
get ink for your Piezo system?

Martin Wesley

I've been using them for a short time now. The biggest 
differences are...  MIS changed the arrangment of the inks to 
match the piezo system (though they don't come right out and tell 
you this) and the inks do have a bit darker black, lighter 25% and 
more evenly spaced 50% and 75%... they are more of a "full 
spectrum". You can use any of the piezo work flows now.

I do like the look of the prints!

Dave Tevis


> I noticed on the MIS site under "News" the mention that the Full 
> Spectrum quad inks can be use with either the Epson driver 
using John 
> Woolf's workflow or with the Piezo driver.
> 
> They said,
> 
> "We had some confusion on the workflow by John Woolf. It has 
been 
> corrected now. Thank you for your patience. If you use this with 
the 
> Epson driver, it makes great quad tone prints. The Full 
Spectrum inks 
> will work with either the Epson driver or the Cone driver."
> 
> Can someone give some first hand reports comparing the MIS 
FS inks 
> and Piezo inks with the Piezo driver? Is this a less expensive 
way to 

> get ink for your Piezo system?
> 
> Martin Wesley

Dave,

How much improvement are you seeing in the blacks compared to the 
ConeTech inks? Any green tint problems?

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., dave@t... wrote:
> I've been using them for a short time now. The biggest 
> differences are...  MIS changed the arrangment of the inks to 
> match the piezo system (though they don't come right out and tell 
> you this) and the inks do have a bit darker black, lighter 25% and 
> more evenly spaced 50% and 75%... they are more of a "full 
> spectrum". You can use any of the piezo work flows now.
> 
> I do like the look of the prints!
> 
> Dave Tevis
> 
> 
(snip)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... 
wrote:
> I noticed on the MIS site under "News" the mention that the Full 
> Spectrum quad inks can be use with either the Epson driver 
using John 
> Woolf's workflow or with the Piezo driver.
> 
> They said,
> 
> "We had some confusion on the workflow by John Woolf. It has 
been 
> corrected now. Thank you for your patience. If you use this with 
the 
> Epson driver, it makes great quad tone prints. The Full 
Spectrum inks 
> will work with either the Epson driver or the Cone driver."
> 
> Can someone give some first hand reports comparing the MIS 
FS inks 
> and Piezo inks with the Piezo driver? Is this a less expensive 
way to 

> get ink for your Piezo system?
> 
> Martin Wesley

Another thought and question on this subject.

If the MIS Full Spectrum inks can be used with the ConeTech driver, 
has anyone tried the ConeTech Piezo inks with John Woolf's workflow 
and the Epson driver? How does that compare to the Piezo ink with the 
Piezo driver?

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... wrote:
> I noticed on the MIS site under "News" the mention that the Full 
> Spectrum quad inks can be use with either the Epson driver using 
John 
> Woolf's workflow or with the Piezo driver.
> 
> They said,
> 
> "We had some confusion on the workflow by John Woolf. It has been 
> corrected now. Thank you for your patience. If you use this with 
the 
> Epson driver, it makes great quad tone prints. The Full Spectrum 
inks 
> will work with either the Epson driver or the Cone driver."
> 
> Can someone give some first hand reports comparing the MIS FS inks 
> and Piezo inks with the Piezo driver? Is this a less expensive way 
to 

> get ink for your Piezo system?
> 
> Martin Wesley

Martin,

did you get my offline-message some hours ago about using the 
Piezo driver and MIS FS inks (and BTW did you get my offline 
infos about Hahnemühle Photo Rag?? - I got no answer)?

If you followed the MIS web site in the last months you surely 
recognized that they anounced a set of "Cone/PIEZO 
REPLACEMENT INKs" in spring. They never answered my 
inquiries in this regard, and later that anouncement disappeared 
from their website to make place for the anouncement of the 
"FULL SPECTRUM INKs" (Synonym for Continuous Tone!?)
Nevertheless on their "News"-link you can find the following 
plans for the year 2001 (from Jan 4,2001):

"Jan 4, 2001 - Plans for 2001
Last year started with the Y2K challenge, not. This year, 2001, 
should be an exciting year. We started several projects last year 
and finished some of them, but many will come to fruition this 
year. Here is a list of our active projects. We can not guarantee 
completion dates or total success, but we wanted you to know 
what may lie ahead. 
*	Replacement Inks for the Piezography System at $52 per set...
........."

So I assume, the FULL SPECTRUM INKs were developed as 
Cone replacement inks, but who knows.... now that they are on 
the market, lets try what we can do with them...

I myself got my set aof MIS FS inks yesterday and installed them 
with CIS on my second 1160 (backup) printer without any 
problems (no clogging though I didn´t use cleaning carts)
I printed a Piezo image on my first 1160 with piezo inks then 
swapped to the MIS printer and printed the same image with MIS 
inks using the Piezo Driver. 
Surprise (or not?):
Prints were nearly identicall at the first attempt. MIS inks printed a 
bit more contrasty (seems even sharper), but after a small 
amount of curve adjustments both prints were rather identical. 
But MIS inks have a slight cooler tint.
My Piezo inks never printed green, so I wouldn´t use this green  
vs. neutral comparison. But my Piezo inks are warmer than the 
MIS inks, that is obvious.
I´m looking forward to getting more experiences.
Main question - how will the prints look in some weeks??
Is the ink as archival as Cone ink?
I´m curious.
Bernd



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... 
wrote:
> I noticed on the MIS site under "News" the mention that the Full 
> Spectrum quad inks can be use with either the Epson driver 
using John 
> Woolf's workflow or with the Piezo driver.
> 
> They said,
> 
> "We had some confusion on the workflow by John Woolf. It has 
been 
> corrected now. Thank you for your patience. If you use this with 
the 
> Epson driver, it makes great quad tone prints. The Full 
Spectrum inks 
> will work with either the Epson driver or the Cone driver."
> 
> Can someone give some first hand reports comparing the MIS 
FS inks 
> and Piezo inks with the Piezo driver? Is this a less expensive 
way to 

> get ink for your Piezo system?
> 
> Martin Wesley

????gitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... 
wrote:
> Another thought and question on this subject.
> 
> If the MIS Full Spectrum inks can be used with the ConeTech 
driver, 
> has anyone tried the ConeTech Piezo inks with John Woolf's 
workflow 
> and the Epson driver? How does that compare to the Piezo ink 
with the 
> Piezo driver?
> 
> Martin


Martin:
MIS and Woolf-workflow: visible dots under the magnifyer-glass.
MIS and Piezo-Driver: no dots.
More experiences to come.
Bernd

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:
> Martin,
> 
> did you get my offline-message some hours ago about using the 
> Piezo driver and MIS FS inks (and BTW did you get my offline 
> infos about Hahnemühle Photo Rag?? - I got no answer)?

Bernd,

I did get your message of today a little while ago and hopefully you 
got my response. (I don't normally have access to my e-mail during 
the day and don't see them until I get home from work. I can post to 
the list though.)

I did not get your Hahnemuhle e-mail so please resend it.

> 
> If you followed the MIS web site in the last months you surely 
> recognized that they anounced a set of "Cone/PIEZO 
> REPLACEMENT INKs" in spring. They never answered my 
> inquiries in this regard, and later that anouncement disappeared 
> from their website to make place for the anouncement of the 
> "FULL SPECTRUM INKs" (Synonym for Continuous Tone!?)
> Nevertheless on their "News"-link you can find the following 
> plans for the year 2001 (from Jan 4,2001):
> 
> "Jan 4, 2001 - Plans for 2001
> Last year started with the Y2K challenge, not. This year, 2001, 
> should be an exciting year. We started several projects last year 
> and finished some of them, but many will come to fruition this 
> year. Here is a list of our active projects. We can not guarantee 
> completion dates or total success, but we wanted you to know 
> what may lie ahead. 
> *	Replacement Inks for the Piezography System at $52 per set...
> ........."

I have to say that in January I was not looking at MIS at all. I 
looked at them briefly last fall when I was deciding what to use. I 
had read about them previously in View Camera and Camera Arts. I saw 
the Piezo vs. MIS comparison images on the ConeTech site and based on 
that decided to go with Piezo. Only slowly have I become aware of the 
other options. One of the reasons we decided to start this list! 

> So I assume, the FULL SPECTRUM INKs were developed as 
> Cone replacement inks, but who knows.... now that they are on 
> the market, lets try what we can do with them...
> 
> I myself got my set aof MIS FS inks yesterday and installed them 
> with CIS on my second 1160 (backup) printer without any 
> problems (no clogging though I didn´t use cleaning carts)
> I printed a Piezo image on my first 1160 with piezo inks then 
> swapped to the MIS printer and printed the same image with MIS 
> inks using the Piezo Driver. 
> Surprise (or not?):
> Prints were nearly identicall at the first attempt. MIS inks 
printed a 
> bit more contrasty (seems even sharper), but after a small 
> amount of curve adjustments both prints were rather identical. 
> But MIS inks have a slight cooler tint.
> My Piezo inks never printed green, so I wouldn´t use this green  
> vs. neutral comparison. But my Piezo inks are warmer than the 
> MIS inks, that is obvious.

It sounds like there is a similarity in quality but a difference in 
color. This is good news! It would have been a shame if they had just 
duplicated the Piezo inks exactly. Something with a different tone 
adds another choice to the materials available to the end users. 

> I´m looking forward to getting more experiences.
> Main question - how will the prints look in some weeks??
> Is the ink as archival as Cone ink?
> I´m curious.

Very important questions and we have the experts in the group to 
hopefully provide some answers.

Martin
Martin

I'm still playing with the workflows but so far I can say that the 
MIS FS inks are very nuetral on Glacier matte (same as lysonic 
matte) no warm tones at all, and very, very slightly warm on 
Torchon. Good deep blacks on both but a bit better on Torchon. I 
want to try Legion Matte next, from what I hear on this group it is a 
great paper. As to visable dots on the matte paper I can see a 
slight amount IF I use any method that does not seperate the 
inks (Dan Culbertson methods for example). But to see any dots 
you have to use a magnafier. With Dans methods there are no 
dots at all. I have been working on fine tuning Dans color 
seperation layer method, but haven't fine tuned it yet. I find the 
prints are great looking with nevins curves, probably simalar to 
John Woolfs results since they both basically do the same thing. 
I will try the Woolf method this weekend and see what I get. But I 
must say that even with tiny dots under magnification... the prints 
look great! 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... 
wrote:
> Dave,
> 
> How much improvement are you seeing in the blacks 
compared to the 
> ConeTech inks? Any green tint problems?
> 
> Martin
> 
snip

-snip

Well.. the first go round on the new John Woolf workflow (the new 
one is posted 8-17-01, you could tell immediattly that the original 
workflow posted on MIS was backwards) produces amazing 
results. The curve is very simple yet creates a great greyscale 
curve and better yet beautiful prints. I used the curve strait as is 
with Torchon and Glacier matte and it looks great on each! I will 
fine tune more but I was much more pleased than with the 
nevins transfer curves! The curve and torchon paper... I may have 
a new standard. 

Dave

Dave, 
your input is very interesting. I myself was absolutely helpless 
with the "wrong" Woolf curve and tried to build my own curve - but 
results were disappointing in comparison to the piezo standard..

Now we should be able to compare MIS-FS/Woolf to 
MIS-FS/Cone.
Thanks, I´ll give it a new try.
Bernd





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., dave@t... wrote:
> -snip
> 
> Well.. the first go round on the new John Woolf workflow (the 
new 
> one is posted 8-17-01, you could tell immediattly that the 
original 
> workflow posted on MIS was backwards) produces amazing 
> results. The curve is very simple yet creates a great greyscale 
> curve and better yet beautiful prints. I used the curve strait as is 
> with Torchon and Glacier matte and it looks great on each! I 
will 
> fine tune more but I was much more pleased than with the 
> nevins transfer curves! The curve and torchon paper... I may 
have 

> a new standard. 
> 
> Dave