Digital BW, The Print

On 3/21/06, Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> It's really not bizarre.  That little R220 is amazing.

The 220 is a dye printer, right?  How does it do with pigment inks
with regard to clogging?  Better than the 1280?

And how about color (shudder)?  I'm thinking about using my C86/EZ for
a dedicated B&W printer and a 220 with Eboni for BO and color use. 
How does the 220 do with a hybrid of Epson color and Eboni black when
printing color (or toned...just to keep it slightly on topic!) B&W?

Thanks,

Lee
--
Lee Hiers, AA4GA
"Have Dobro Will Travel"

Well, I had a 1280 and had tried BO with Eboni Black from MIS. I was
constantly getting clogging. It drove me nuts!  The 220 with Eboni
Black has yet to clog even once.
 Best
 Howard
 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Hiers"
<lee.hiers@...> wrote:

>
> On 3/21/06, Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> 
> > It's really not bizarre.  That little R220 is amazing.
> 
> The 220 is a dye printer, right?  How does it do with pigment inks
> with regard to clogging?  Better than the 1280?
> 
> And how about color (shudder)?  I'm thinking about using my C86/EZ for
> a dedicated B&W printer and a 220 with Eboni for BO and color use. 
> How does the 220 do with a hybrid of Epson color and Eboni black when
> printing color (or toned...just to keep it slightly on topic!) B&W?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Lee
> --
> Lee Hiers, AA4GA
> "Have Dobro Will Travel"
>

> 
> Well, I had a 1280 and had tried BO with Eboni Black from MIS. I was
> constantly getting clogging. It drove me nuts!  The 220 with Eboni
> Black has yet to clog even once.
>  Best
>  Howard
> 

My R220 has also been clog free.

I've noticed refurbished 1280s are now available from Epson for just under
$200.  At that price, the printer is hard to ignore for those who want 13"
capability on a budget.  I've been wondering if a cart full of Windex ready
to go if there are problems would make the old 1280 a contender again.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I think you can get them brand new, Paul, for $342. Then Epson gives
$100 rebate. (free shipping) 
http://www2.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?utm_id=17&ref=pricegrabber&sku=EP1280

  How does the BO output of the 1280 compare with that of the 2200?
Also, has anyone ever figured out why some of us have constant
clogging and others do not?
 I assume the 2200 has not the same clogging issues as the 1280, correct?
 Best Regards
 Howard
 

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> > 
> > Well, I had a 1280 and had tried BO with Eboni Black from MIS. I was
> > constantly getting clogging. It drove me nuts!  The 220 with Eboni
> > Black has yet to clog even once.
> >  Best
> >  Howard
> > 
> 
> My R220 has also been clog free.
> 
> I've noticed refurbished 1280s are now available from Epson for just
under
> $200.  At that price, the printer is hard to ignore for those who
want 13"
> capability on a budget.  I've been wondering if a cart full of
Windex ready

> to go if there are problems would make the old 1280 a contender again.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Hello Howard,

>How does the BO output of the 1280 compare with that of the 2200?

I did a comparison test with a 1280 owner a couple of years ago.  We
both printed the same image using Eboni BO.  The 2200 theoretically
can do better with it's 2880, but only the faintest difference could
be seen in areas of extremly fine detail with a 6x loupe.  For all
practical purposes they were equal in quality.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Do you have any idea at all as to why some people have no problems
with the 1280 BO and other are plagued by clogs? I'd love to solve my
clog issue
 (I might break out my 1280 again for large photos.)
 Best Regards
 Howard


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Howard,
> 
> >How does the BO output of the 1280 compare with that of the 2200?
> 
> I did a comparison test with a 1280 owner a couple of years ago.  We
> both printed the same image using Eboni BO.  The 2200 theoretically
> can do better with it's 2880, but only the faintest difference could
> be seen in areas of extremly fine detail with a 6x loupe.  For all
> practical purposes they were equal in quality.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

I'll throw in my $.02 as one who has had 1280 success for many years. 

I think there is production variance in the 1280's. There is no other
way to resolve the fact that some knowledgable folks have had 1280
problems while others have not. I didn't believe this for a while
until some posters who have earned respect reported 1280 problems.  

But, I think many people have issues that are related to carts
problems  and not nozzle problems. The result is the same, bad nozzle
checks and banding. But they pursue the nozzle when the problem lies
in the cart. One way to tell for sure is to swap back to real Epson
dye carts and see if you can clean up the problem. 

I have not seen the problems from combining Eboni with dye that Paul
Roark has. But, he's another of those whose opinion I value. At least
it's easy to clean the parking pad, so I do. 

I think some have problems from an unwillingness to give the printer 
time to rest and clean up. If you have the attitude that you are not
going to stop working until you solve the problem, it will frustrate
you. Sometimes leaving the cart sit and soak overnight solves a lot.
Reference my earlier comment about cart problems vs. nozzle problems. 

Also there is a great deal of trouble shooting info on the MIS site in
 the CFS section. Even though you don't have a CFS, everything is
valid for trouble shooting. I used a CFS for several years and
realized I almost never had a nozzle problem. It was always the carts. 

The prior suggestion to print every day or so with pigments in a 1280
is good. But I never do. Sometimes my 1280 sits for weeks and still
never has a real clog problem. 

Lastly, 1280's only last a few years with pigments before they develop
a fatal problem with an increased tendency to clog. That may be from
accumulated ink in the heads. It's fatal only because they are cheaper
to replace than spend the time to fix. But the price justifies that. 
Several years ago, my 1280 developed a tendency to clog more frequenty
with pigments. I got frustrated and just bought another to replace it.
 It was the best $275 I spent as far as solving a problem. That
replacement has been printing good for several years now. 

Howard: I suggest you follow Paul Roark's thought about just getting
some refillable carts and filling them with Windex. Run a few cleaning
cycles, then let it sit overnight. Do that for a few days in a row and
 then if it doesn't come back, spend $199 and get a new Epson refurb
1280. 



 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
<how786@...> wrote:

>
> Do you have any idea at all as to why some people have no problems
> with the 1280 BO and other are plagued by clogs? I'd love to solve my
> clog issue
>  (I might break out my 1280 again for large photos.)
>  Best Regards
>  Howard

I've had both a 1200 and and two 1270's that I've used all kind of
inks in - MIS quads, Cone quads,2 kinds of Lyson quads, and now back
to the original Epson 1270 inks. Two of them still work like new, 6
years later. (the other 1270 I destroyed by knocking if off the
printer stand but it was going fine too).

The only thing that I know that I've done consistently is to run the
Jrano flush carts that I got from Media Street.com through these
machines about every 6 months and clean them out good. Also the Epson
dyes act like solvents and clean them up really good too. I belive
Cone recommends that. The difference in these smaller machines and the
larger ones is that it is difficult to shake the carts every week.
Most of these pigments tend to break down a bit if they are just
sitting there, even Ultrachrome black. 

john

> Lastly, 1280's only last a few years with pigments before they develop
> a fatal problem with an increased tendency to clog. That may be from
> accumulated ink in the heads. It's fatal only because they are cheaper
> to replace than spend the time to fix. But the price justifies that. 
> Several years ago, my 1280 developed a tendency to clog more frequenty
> with pigments. I got frustrated and just bought another to replace it.
>  It was the best $275 I spent as far as solving a problem. That
> replacement has been printing good for several years now. 
> 
> Howard: I suggest you follow Paul Roark's thought about just getting
> some refillable carts and filling them with Windex. Run a few cleaning
> cycles, then let it sit overnight. Do that for a few days in a row and
>  then if it doesn't come back, spend $199 and get a new Epson refurb
> 1280. 
> 
> 
> 
>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
> <how786@> wrote:
> >
> > Do you have any idea at all as to why some people have no problems
> > with the 1280 BO and other are plagued by clogs? I'd love to solve my
> > clog issue
> >  (I might break out my 1280 again for large photos.)
> >  Best Regards
> >  Howard
>

> I think there is production variance in the 1280's...

That may be the case.  I've thought perhaps the single color cart instead of
individual ones makes the spacing of the inlet pegs and cart outlet ports
critical.  That may, in turn, be more of a problem with third party carts
that are not quite up to the Epson standards.  But, I'm speculating here.

...
> Lastly, 1280's only last a few years with pigments before they develop
> a fatal problem with an increased tendency to clog...

That's probably the case.  Here is where I wonder if some routine
Windex-in-cart maintenance would improve the situation.

I've been discussing the issue with MIS, and they think the 1280 is still a
viable platform.  As such, I'm going to port the UT-3D to it also.  That may
fill the void of affordable 13" printers for the inkset.  (The 3D is running
on the 2200, but it seems to be getting hard to find and is much more
expensive.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hello Howard,

>Do you have any idea at all as to why some people have no problems
>with the 1280 BO and other are plagued by clogs? I'd love to solve 
>my clog issue (I might break out my 1280 again for large photos.)

Yes, it has to do with the alignment of the planets in your horoscope.
 If you have Saturn rising with your moon in Aquarius you're dead meat
for clogs.  On the other hand, if you have Taurus in Vertigo's
quartile and are on the cusp of Leo then you'll have no problems at all.  

BTW, I'm working on the other project...you'll hear from me soon on that.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

ROFL!
 Thank you for clarifying the matter.
 I knew the answer had to be something as simple as this.
  <wink>
 Best
  Howard

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Howard,
> 
> >Do you have any idea at all as to why some people have no problems
> >with the 1280 BO and other are plagued by clogs? I'd love to solve 
> >my clog issue (I might break out my 1280 again for large photos.)
> 
> Yes, it has to do with the alignment of the planets in your horoscope.
>  If you have Saturn rising with your moon in Aquarius you're dead meat
> for clogs.  On the other hand, if you have Taurus in Vertigo's
> quartile and are on the cusp of Leo then you'll have no problems at
all.  
> 
> BTW, I'm working on the other project...you'll hear from me soon on
that.

> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

MIS PRO color inks have become another reason for the 1280 continuing
utility. They make the 1280 color output the equal of the more recent
models. And, no clog problems. 

I have an four plus year old 890 that mostly uses the MIS $5 cheap
Chinese ink carts for general home office use although it get other
inks including pigment from time to time. Absolutely reliable. I think
John Dean's observation about the dye ink flushing out the crud is valid. 

Bob Michaels 

 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> > I think there is production variance in the 1280's...
> 
> That may be the case.  I've thought perhaps the single color cart
instead of
> individual ones makes the spacing of the inlet pegs and cart outlet
ports
> critical.  That may, in turn, be more of a problem with third party
carts
> that are not quite up to the Epson standards.  But, I'm speculating
here.
> 
> ...
> > Lastly, 1280's only last a few years with pigments before they develop
> > a fatal problem with an increased tendency to clog...
> 
> That's probably the case.  Here is where I wonder if some routine
> Windex-in-cart maintenance would improve the situation.
> 
> I've been discussing the issue with MIS, and they think the 1280 is
still a
> viable platform.  As such, I'm going to port the UT-3D to it also. 
That may
> fill the void of affordable 13" printers for the inkset.  (The 3D is
running

> on the 2200, but it seems to be getting hard to find and is much more
> expensive.)
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Will the 2200 running UT7 clog less than the 1280 running UT2? 

I posted here a week or so ago with a clogged jet on my 1280.  I 
followed advice given and tried to clear it with windex, but after 
several treatments couldn't improve it.  I even took the head off and 
squirted about three syringes of windex through it until I could get 
a nice even spray of the stuff through the head. Put it all back and 
the clog is still there.  Then I tried leaving windex in the head for 
8 hours or so and still, no improvement.  I give up.

Now I'm eyeing my 2200, which has thus far enjoyed only Epson inks 
and has rewarded me by never clogging in nearly two years.  Am I 
crazy to put UT7 in it?  What about an Epson 4000?   Do we think the 
UT2 and UT7 inks will ultimately clog all of these printers?


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Michaels" 
<bob@...> wrote:
>
> MIS PRO color inks have become another reason for the 1280 
continuing
> utility. They make the 1280 color output the equal of the more 
recent
> models. And, no clog problems. 
> 
> I have an four plus year old 890 that mostly uses the MIS $5 cheap
> Chinese ink carts for general home office use although it get other
> inks including pigment from time to time. Absolutely reliable. I 
think
> John Dean's observation about the dye ink flushing out the crud is 
valid. 
> 
> Bob Michaels 
> 
>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > > I think there is production variance in the 1280's...
> > 
> > That may be the case.  I've thought perhaps the single color cart
> instead of
> > individual ones makes the spacing of the inlet pegs and cart 
outlet
> ports
> > critical.  That may, in turn, be more of a problem with third 
party
> carts
> > that are not quite up to the Epson standards.  But, I'm 
speculating
> here.
> > 
> > ...
> > > Lastly, 1280's only last a few years with pigments before they 
develop
> > > a fatal problem with an increased tendency to clog...
> > 
> > That's probably the case.  Here is where I wonder if some routine
> > Windex-in-cart maintenance would improve the situation.
> > 
> > I've been discussing the issue with MIS, and they think the 1280 
is
> still a
> > viable platform.  As such, I'm going to port the UT-3D to it 
also. 
> That may
> > fill the void of affordable 13" printers for the inkset.  (The 3D 
is
> running
> > on the 2200, but it seems to be getting hard to find and is much 
more

> > expensive.)
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
>

> 
> Will the 2200 running UT7 clog less than the 1280 running UT2?

On average, yes.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com