Digital BW, The Print

I took the plunge yesterday and bought an R2400. As advertised, I get
neutral toned B&W out of the box. No more magenta & green casts that I
got from the R800 (which I still have). That's a BIG improvement.
There also appears to be more detail, particularly in shadows. 

So far I've only printed on Epson Premium Luster using the PK ink. I
chose PK because I thought it would give me the most flexibility in
B&W and color; but of course it limits me, so I have two beginner
questions for those who have worked out their routines with the K3 inks: 

1. Do you routinely use PK ink for B&W or have you settled on MK instead?

2. If you are using PK, what paper are you routinely using with PK ink
for B&W images? 

I don't recall 2400 users on this list switching inks often, although
if someone does, I'd certainly like to hear your thoughts. 

Since I still have my R800, I have some flexibility. I can use it for
photo black color printing if it looks as if MK ink is the best
option. I'm not inclined to use it for b&w because of the color casts.

(I assume at some point I'm going to try BO in some printer but not
right away.)

Hello Gilbert,

>I took the plunge yesterday and bought an R2400. As advertised, I 
>get neutral toned B&W out of the box. No more magenta & green casts 
>that I got from the R800 (which I still have). That's a BIG 
>improvement.  There also appears to be more detail, particularly 
>in shadows. 

Congratulations (it's sort of like having a baby <g>).


>1. Do you routinely use PK ink for B&W or have you settled on MK 
>instead?

I routinely use MK.  I got started on that originally because I
dislike the look/feel of RC type papers, and have since really fallen
in love with the totally reflection-less look.  Later when some better
glossy papers became available that were less RC-like but still with
the better dmax, I still stuck with matte papers because of the
reflections.  Now that the new Silver Rag is here (I tried a sample),
we're closer than ever to the silver ADFBG look and feel, and I'm
tempted.  However I still have mixed feelings because of the
reflections.  Am I willing to accept that to get the better dmax?  I
don't know yet.  It also has a mottled surface texture that I don't
care for.  Still, it's pretty nice stuff...  I have some more SR on
order and will do more testing.



>I don't recall 2400 users on this list switching inks often, 
>although if someone does, I'd certainly like to hear your 
>thoughts. 

It's relatively quick and easy, but it does induce a cleaning cycle
which can get expensive quickly.  That presents a problem for me
because even if I do use SR I probably won't abandon matte papers
totally - they are just too beautiful.  I'll probably use it for
selected images.  So at best I will have to plan my printing (if such
a thing is possible) so as to switch as infrequently as possible.

BTW, regarding cleaning cycles, I never turn the printer off because
it often does a cycle on power up.

BTW #2 - atlex.com has the best prices for carts I've seen so far.


>(I assume at some point I'm going to try BO in some printer but not
>right away.)

I've found that (aside from it's other well documented virtues), BO
printing on an inexpensive R200/220 is a great way to do proofing
during the initial workup of an image (I make K3 proofs when working
up a K3 final print).  These printers are normally available for under
$99, and I'm sure it's already paid for itself in ink savings alone.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

In my experience, Thenerds.net is ALMOST as cheap if one orders in
volume as I do. $156 vs. 154 for 13 cartridges for the 2400. (includes
shipping)
 What I really like about Nerds is that for only $3.99 they will
guarantee same day shipping. For me, this means I get my order the
following day.

  Best Regards
  Ginny
 
> BTW #2 - atlex.com has the best prices for carts I've seen so far.

> BTW, regarding cleaning cycles, I never turn the printer off because
> it often does a cycle on power up.

 Clayton,

  I'd been told by Epson tech a few years back that it was important
to turn off the printer. They claimed that the heads were more likely
to clog if the printer was left on for extended periods of time. Is
this no longer true?
 Have you had no such issue with your 2400 being left on?

Best Regards
Howard

FWIW my Epson 2100 was switched on for most of the time over the 3
years I owned it and it very rarely clogged. Most clogs seemed to
happen just before, or just after, changing an ink cartridge.
HTH
Alan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
<how786@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> > BTW, regarding cleaning cycles, I never turn the printer off because
> > it often does a cycle on power up.
> 
>  Clayton,
> 
>   I'd been told by Epson tech a few years back that it was important
> to turn off the printer. They claimed that the heads were more likely
> to clog if the printer was left on for extended periods of time. Is
> this no longer true?
>  Have you had no such issue with your 2400 being left on?
> 
> Best Regards
> Howard
>

It's possible that Epson has some competent techs working in the
consumer printer groups. But I have yet to find one who talks to
common folk like us on the phone. 

The reality is that 98% of the members of this group know more about
using their products than their "consumer product techs" do.   

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
<how786@...> wrote:

>   I'd been told by Epson tech a few years back that it was important
> to turn off the printer. They claimed that the heads were more likely
> to clog if the printer was left on for extended periods of time. Is
> this no longer true?

> Howard
>

I hear ya Bob! 
Thanks. 
  The notes I had made 2 or 3 years ago when I was told that about
'heads clogging' state that the heads will 'dry out' while the printer
is left on unused but that when the printer is turned off the heads
'park' in a way that prevent them drying out and clogging.

 Is this notion a fabrication?

 In my experience, Epson does have some very good techs unlike Canon
who are mainly staffed by elves and golems. :)

 Enjoy the following true words of wisdom.

 When I had a 9900 I was told by Canon tech:
   1-The printer is not capable of printing from Photoshop. I had to
use the program that comes on the Canon software disk. (Really?!, I said.)
   2-The printer cannot print files that are over 100 megs in size.
      (I rolled my eyes and hung up.)

   Then again, I was recently told by an Epson tech that for my 2400
to properly pull in VFA paper, I needed to stack a minimum of 20
sheets of VFA paper!
  (Upon hearing this nonsense, I demanded higher level tech support.)

  Turns out that my printer was defective and the replacement 2400 has
no problem whatsoever loading the heavier papers.

 Best
 Howard


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Michaels"
<bob@...> wrote:

>
> It's possible that Epson has some competent techs working in the
> consumer printer groups. But I have yet to find one who talks to
> common folk like us on the phone. 
> 
> The reality is that 98% of the members of this group know more about
> using their products than their "consumer product techs" do.   
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
> <how786@> wrote:
> >   I'd been told by Epson tech a few years back that it was important
> > to turn off the printer. They claimed that the heads were more likely
> > to clog if the printer was left on for extended periods of time. Is
> > this no longer true?
> 
> > Howard
> >
>

Hello Howard,

>>BTW, regarding cleaning cycles, I never turn the printer off because
>>it often does a cycle on power up.

>I'd been told by Epson tech a few years back that it was important
>to turn off the printer. They claimed that the heads were more likely
>to clog if the printer was left on for extended periods of time. Is
>this no longer true?  Have you had no such issue with your 2400 
>being left on?

I haven't had any negative experiences doing this with the 2400 so far
(7+ months now), and had equally good results doing that with my 2200
for 2 years, and that was with Eboni and various other MIS inks
installed.  It definitely saves money by avoiding cleaning cycles.  

The 2200 has a neat trick in that after changing a cart, instead of
pushing the ink button (which starts a cleaning cycle), turn the
printer off and then back on.  It will initialize without doing a
cleaning cycle.  Unfortunately the 2400 won't do this.  I went for
months without clogs, even when I was doing UT7 experiments and was
changing carts frequently.

Speaking of that, as Alan said, changing carts is often when clogs
happen.  I think most of these clogs are actually air traps, and I
found that if, after inserting a new cart, I let it sit for 5 or more
minutes before pushing the ink button (or turning it off/on), these
clogs are almost completely eliminated.  My theory is that it allows
the ink to settle down into the head.  


Regards,
Clayton

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
<snip> 
> Speaking of that, as Alan said, changing carts is often when clogs
> happen.  I think most of these clogs are actually air traps, and I
> found that if, after inserting a new cart, I let it sit for 5 or more
> minutes before pushing the ink button (or turning it off/on), these
> clogs are almost completely eliminated.  My theory is that it allows
> the ink to settle down into the head.
  
That makes a lot of sense especially as Epson instruct you to _shake_
each new cartridge prior to insertion, presumably to make sure the
pigment hasn't formed itself into a lump in the new cartridge (which
is usually stored _upside down_ if you've followed the instructions on
the box). However, shaking could plausibly create air bubbles as well.
So "shake, then wait" seems like a good compromise.

Regards,

Alan