Digital BW, The Print

I just printed a test strip of the MIS variable-tone/mix inks on some Epson
Photo Glossy (SO41141). The results look fairly good -- if glossy paper is
your preference.  (It's not mine, but I was curious.)

I let the print dry for 1/2 hour, wiped the "dust" off it with a cotton
cloth, and scanned the resulting neutral-tone print.  The tone distribution
is surprisingly good even with the standard settings, which call for HW
Matte paper setting on my 1160.  The maximum deviation from the ideal is 3%.
For example, the 75% test patch reads 78%.  All the patches are reasonably
well spaced.

The scanner says the glossy black is much darker.  When the Photo Glossy
test strip is scanned along with an Archival Matte test strip, the Archival
Matte black reads a weak 91% compared to the glossy's 100%.  The scanner
also says that the MIS black ink prints cooler on glossy paper than on
Archival Matte and that the glossy paper is warmer than the Archival Matte.

My visual opinions differ a bit from the above.  Like with comparing a
silver print with an Archival Matte flat surface, the depth of the blacks is
totally a question of how much reflection there is off the more glossy
surface.  In typical office light (not an ideal spot) I suspect I'd choose
the Archival Matte test strip as having the darker blacks (as well as cooler
shadows).  However, with a 45 degree spot the glossy surface wins the
blackness contest.

At any rate, for those who like glossy prints, Epson Photo Paper appears to
just need a bit of dusting to work with the MIS variable-tone inks.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

(snip)

>However, with a 45 degree spot the glossy surface wins the
> blackness contest.
> 
> At any rate, for those who like glossy prints, Epson Photo Paper 
appears to
> just need a bit of dusting to work with the MIS variable-tone inks.
> 
Paul,

No bronzing? Did you get much dust off the prints and do you thing a 
shot of Krylon spray of similar would lock it all in place?

Martin

on 8/14/01 6:06 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> The scanner says the glossy black is much darker.  When the Photo Glossy
> test strip is scanned along with an Archival Matte test strip, the Archival
> Matte black reads a weak 91% compared to the glossy's 100%.  The scanner
> also says that the MIS black ink prints cooler on glossy paper than on
> Archival Matte and that the glossy paper is warmer than the Archival Matte.
> 
> My visual opinions differ a bit from the above.


I happened to have gotten a bunch of papers to test recently, so I dropped
in some Epson Photo glossy to have a look. I'm using your Piezo/generations
blend, so I don't know how close a match it is to the all MIS brew, but I'll
assume pretty close.

I get the same dusting, and to my eye the gloss print has a lower Dmax than
the Museo, Torchon, and Orwell, that I'm testing. (I'm using their more
conventional names, but I purchased them more cheaply from media street).

Between the dusting, and perhaps a tiny bit of bronzing trying to come
through, I have to manipulate the paper so much to find the right
reflectance of light, or lack there of, that it's nerve racking.

My own suggestion is that a good matte paper is far better than fudging a
gloss with pigments. If you really want to print on gloss and semi-gloss
papers, which do have their merits with dye inks, try the Spectratones, by
Lincoln Inks. They have a visible Dmax advantage.

You still might prefer a good matte print though.

Todd

I posted the message below this morning but upon further review the print on
the Epson Photo Glossy paper is perhaps better than I originally thought. I
was looking at it in a bright white room which made for a lot of spurious
reflections. It might be worth pursuing further, but casually. It's
interesting, but no Holy Grail.

Since I felt bad about condemning it hastily I tried some other glossies,
most without good success. I may post a more elaborate review down the road,
but probably not, as most I deemed a failure. I also want to hit them with a
spray sealant before I conclude anything. But for those of you who're really
eager to pursue this option, my best results so far out of 7 papers were
with the Epson Photo, and a new BrightCube paper called ProPhoto Gloss.

Contrary to my expectations, semi-gloss (or semi-matte) papers did not fare
well at all, because when trying to wipe off the inevitable dusting, the
surface grabs and holds the "dust". I'd call it sooty. Similarly don't
handle any such glossyish prints with your bare hands because your finger
prints will hold the soot.

Perhaps a spray will obviate the need to wipe the dust, so I reserve further
judgement until then.

Todd

> 
>> The scanner says the glossy black is much darker.  When the Photo Glossy
>> test strip is scanned along with an Archival Matte test strip, the Archival
>> Matte black reads a weak 91% compared to the glossy's 100%.  The scanner
>> also says that the MIS black ink prints cooler on glossy paper than on
>> Archival Matte and that the glossy paper is warmer than the Archival Matte.
>> 
>> My visual opinions differ a bit from the above.
> 
> 
> I happened to have gotten a bunch of papers to test recently, so I dropped
> in some Epson Photo glossy to have a look. I'm using your Piezo/generations
> blend, so I don't know how close a match it is to the all MIS brew, but I'll
> assume pretty close.
> 
> I get the same dusting, and to my eye the gloss print has a lower Dmax than
> the Museo, Torchon, and Orwell, that I'm testing. (I'm using their more
> conventional names, but I purchased them more cheaply from media street).
> 
> Between the dusting, and perhaps a tiny bit of bronzing trying to come
> through, I have to manipulate the paper so much to find the right
> reflectance of light, or lack there of, that it's nerve racking.
> 
> My own suggestion is that a good matte paper is far better than fudging a
> gloss with pigments. If you really want to print on gloss and semi-gloss
> papers, which do have their merits with dye inks, try the Spectratones, by
> Lincoln Inks. They have a visible Dmax advantage.
> 
> You still might prefer a good matte print though.
> 
> Todd

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...> wrote:
>>>my best results so far out of 7 papers were
with the Epson Photo, and a new BrightCube paper called ProPhoto 
Gloss.<<<

Todd,

I don't know that PPG is new. I tested it 1/26/01(with piezo) and it came in with 
a dmax of 2.24!! It silvered a bit, but I was able to wipe it down enough to get a 
respectable surface. Not ideal, but to get that dMax from piezo is pretty 
astounding. The wiping, I must say, was not as clean as good ol' Epson 
Photo. Maybe a slight Krylon coat would take the residual silvering off. 
Anybody interested should know it's available in rolls only (see my paper 
database).

Antonis

> Todd,
> 
> I don't know that PPG is new. I tested it 1/26/01(with piezo) and it came in
> with 
> a dmax of 2.24!! It silvered a bit, but I was able to wipe it down enough to
> get a 
> respectable surface. Not ideal, but to get that dMax from piezo is pretty
> astounding. The wiping, I must say, was not as clean as good ol' Epson
> Photo. Maybe a slight Krylon coat would take the residual silvering off.
> Anybody interested should know it's available in rolls only (see my paper
> database).

Oh well, new to me. ;-)

I got it in sheets, in their sample pack. But I checked and you're right,
only rolls. I hate that! The do have a heavy weight gloss in sheets, but
that I have not tried. I don't think gloss will be for me anyway.

http://www.photoinkjet.com/cgi-bin/media/search.cgi?company=Brightcube_Heavy
weight_Gloss

Todd