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Digital BW, The Print

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having trouble printing a particular image...

having trouble printing a particular image...

2006-05-03 by Brian Chapman

Hey,

I'm having trouble printing this image: 
http://flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/117916981/

The problem is with the transition between the light on the horizon 
and the sky.  I can not seem to get a smooth transition to the sky if 
I print any smaller than 12x12 (even at that size it's a little bit 
noticeable).  If I print 8x8 there are visible "cutoffs" as each major 
tonal change progressing from white (the very center of the light) to 
black (the sky) and especially between the last two steps (between 
almost black and completely black.)

If I print BO the transition is much less "stepped" and looks much 
better but I want to be able to print this one continuous tone.  

The image looks fine on screen (my screen now matches the prints very 
closely).  I've tried dozens of small adjustments to the image but 
nothing seems to work.  

Any ideas as to what else I can try?  

Equipment:
Epson R220
UT-R2 inks
BO & full ink methods
EEM paper
with and without Paul's QTR profiles

Thanks!!!!!

Brian
http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com

RE: [Digital BW] having trouble printing a particular image...

2006-05-03 by John Moody

Brian,
I have a Rebel XT image with similar problems.
Assuming the image is RAW, go back to your raw converter and set the
colorspace to pro-photo, 16-bit.  Then ignoring everything else in the
scene, make huge changes to color temperature, exposure, etc. to find a
setting that reduces posterization in the trouble area.  Process that, put
it in as a layer in PS, and blend into the overall image using whatever
tools seem to work.
Try every RAW processor you have; they will all give different results with
blown out channel(s) like that.

Beautiful image, BTW.

Best regards,
John Moody
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Brian
Chapman
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:41 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] having trouble printing a particular image...

Hey,

I'm having trouble printing this image:
http://flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/117916981/

The problem is with the transition between the light on the horizon
and the sky.  I can not seem to get a smooth transition to the sky if
I print any smaller than 12x12 (even at that size it's a little bit
noticeable).  If I print 8x8 there are visible "cutoffs" as each major
tonal change progressing from white (the very center of the light) to
black (the sky) and especially between the last two steps (between
almost black and completely black.)

If I print BO the transition is much less "stepped" and looks much
better but I want to be able to print this one continuous tone.

The image looks fine on screen (my screen now matches the prints very
closely).  I've tried dozens of small adjustments to the image but
nothing seems to work.

Any ideas as to what else I can try?

Equipment:
Epson R220
UT-R2 inks
BO & full ink methods
EEM paper
with and without Paul's QTR profiles

Thanks!!!!!

Brian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: having trouble printing a particular image...

2006-05-03 by John Vitollo

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Chapman" 
<brianechapman@...> wrote:
>
> Hey,
> 
> I'm having trouble printing this image: 
> http://flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/117916981/
> If I print BO the transition is much less "stepped" and looks much 
> better but I want to be able to print this one continuous tone.  
> 
> The image looks fine on screen (my screen now matches the prints very 
> closely).  I've tried dozens of small adjustments to the image but 
> nothing seems to work.  

If only the image's dimensions are changed, but not resolution, print driver might be choking 
on an odd image resolution number and having a difficult time interpolating. Might want to 
resize and resample image to 360.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: having trouble printing a particular image...

2006-05-03 by Tom Baker

Check the printer specs.  You might find that the length variation you are seeing is within spec.  
   
  Tom Baker

John Vitollo <jvlist@...> wrote:
  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Chapman" 
<brianechapman@...> wrote:
>
> Hey,
> 
> I'm having trouble printing this image: 
> http://flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/117916981/
> If I print BO the transition is much less "stepped" and looks much 
> better but I want to be able to print this one continuous tone.  
> 
> The image looks fine on screen (my screen now matches the prints very 
> closely).  I've tried dozens of small adjustments to the image but 
> nothing seems to work.  

If only the image's dimensions are changed, but not resolution, print driver might be choking 
on an odd image resolution number and having a difficult time interpolating. Might want to 
resize and resample image to 360. 






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] having trouble printing a particular image...

2006-05-03 by Andrew Darlow

Hi Brian:

Have you considered adding noise to a 16bit scan/processed digital 
image of the file?

(maybe 1-3 pixels-try gaussian monochrome) Sometimes it will look bad 
on screen but very natural in the image.

Hope that helps,

Andrew Darlow

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.andrewdarlow.com
http://www.imagingbuffet.com

>Brian,
>I have a Rebel XT image with similar problems.
>Assuming the image is RAW, go back to your raw converter and set the
>colorspace to pro-photo, 16-bit.  Then ignoring everything else in the
>scene, make huge changes to color temperature, exposure, etc. to find a
>setting that reduces posterization in the trouble area.  Process that, put
>it in as a layer in PS, and blend into the overall image using whatever
>tools seem to work.
>Try every RAW processor you have; they will all give different results with
>blown out channel(s) like that.
>
>Beautiful image, BTW.
>
>Best regards,
>John Moody
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Brian
>Chapman
>Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:41 AM
>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Digital BW] having trouble printing a particular image...
>
>Hey,
>
>I'm having trouble printing this image:
><http://flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/117916981/>http://flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/117916981/
>
>The problem is with the transition between the light on the horizon
>and the sky.  I can not seem to get a smooth transition to the sky if
>I print any smaller than 12x12 (even at that size it's a little bit
>noticeable).  If I print 8x8 there are visible "cutoffs" as each major
>tonal change progressing from white (the very center of the light) to
>black (the sky) and especially between the last two steps (between
>almost black and completely black.)
>
>If I print BO the transition is much less "stepped" and looks much
>better but I want to be able to print this one continuous tone.
>
>The image looks fine on screen (my screen now matches the prints very
>closely).  I've tried dozens of small adjustments to the image but
>nothing seems to work.
>
>Any ideas as to what else I can try?
>
>Equipment:
>Epson R220
>UT-R2 inks
>BO & full ink methods
>EEM paper
>with and without Paul's QTR profiles
>
>Thanks!!!!!
>
>Brian
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Darlow Images Intl.
718 Union Ave-#293
Middlesex, NJ 08846
ad@...
www.andrewdarlow.com
732-742-0123, 800-432-2634


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] having trouble printing a particular image...

2006-05-03 by Brian Chapman

Thanks for the suggestions!  I should add that the effect is vastly 
less pronounced when printing BO so it could also have something to 
do with the different inks in the continuous tone print.  I'm so 
tempted to try printing the top half in BO and the rest CT but I 
can't imagine having much luck getting the two pieces aligned 
correctly ;)

John M - Thanks.  I will take another look at the RAW image to see 
if I can get anything more out of it in that area.   

John V - I resampled down to 4" square from about 9" square using 
240 - which is what the file was already in.  I will try with 360 
but I was under the impression that it wouldn't make much of a 
difference (I can't remember why though so if there is a difference 
please let me know!!) 

Andrew - Yes, I have tried adding noise but I think to have an 
effect in this case I think I need more - I tried 3 last night but 
it didn't seem to break the transitions at all. 

Tom B - good idea, I will check, although I've seen smooth 
transitions out of this particular printer in similar cases so I 
think this is probably more of an image problem than anything 
else.    

Thanks!!

Brian
http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com

RE: [Digital BW] having trouble printing a particular image...

2006-05-03 by Paul Roark

Brian,

Nice image.

I've noticed that some paper types have more visible stair stepping than
others.  You might try varying that.  On some matte papers the Ultra Premium
Glossy paper type is very good.

The BO may be avoiding the issue due to its "grain."  The various
suggestions from other all make sense to me also.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian
> Chapman
> Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 7:41 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] having trouble printing a particular image...
> 
> Hey,
> 
> I'm having trouble printing this image:
> http://flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/117916981/
> 
> The problem is with the transition between the light on the horizon
> and the sky.  I can not seem to get a smooth transition to the sky if
> I print any smaller than 12x12 (even at that size it's a little bit
> noticeable).  If I print 8x8 there are visible "cutoffs" as each major
> tonal change progressing from white (the very center of the light) to
> black (the sky) and especially between the last two steps (between
> almost black and completely black.)
> 
> If I print BO the transition is much less "stepped" and looks much
> better but I want to be able to print this one continuous tone.
> 
> The image looks fine on screen (my screen now matches the prints very
> closely).  I've tried dozens of small adjustments to the image but
> nothing seems to work.
> 
> Any ideas as to what else I can try?
> 
> Equipment:
> Epson R220
> UT-R2 inks
> BO & full ink methods
> EEM paper
> with and without Paul's QTR profiles
> 
> Thanks!!!!!
> 
> Brian
> http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] having trouble printing a particular image...

2006-05-03 by Brian Chapman

Thanks Paul.  

I will try the UPG paper type for sure.  I have been using heavy 
weight matte and photo quality inket which have very similar 
results.  

The BO "graininess" is definately contributing to the appearance of 
a smooth transition.  For this image I personally like the BO print 
better, I'm just not sure if I'm going to come across someone who 
thinks it's a (to quote Clayton) "a poor and unworthy method." for a 
print they are purchasing or trading for :)  

Brian
http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Brian,
> 
> Nice image.
> 
> I've noticed that some paper types have more visible stair 
stepping than
> others.  You might try varying that.  On some matte papers the 
Ultra Premium
> Glossy paper type is very good.
> 
> The BO may be avoiding the issue due to its "grain."  The various
> suggestions from other all make sense to me also.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Brian
> > Chapman
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 7:41 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] having trouble printing a particular 
image...
> > 
> > Hey,
> > 
> > I'm having trouble printing this image:
> > http://flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/117916981/
> > 
> > The problem is with the transition between the light on the 
horizon
> > and the sky.  I can not seem to get a smooth transition to the 
sky if
> > I print any smaller than 12x12 (even at that size it's a little 
bit
> > noticeable).  If I print 8x8 there are visible "cutoffs" as each 
major
> > tonal change progressing from white (the very center of the 
light) to
> > black (the sky) and especially between the last two steps 
(between
> > almost black and completely black.)
> > 
> > If I print BO the transition is much less "stepped" and looks 
much
> > better but I want to be able to print this one continuous tone.
> > 
> > The image looks fine on screen (my screen now matches the prints 
very
> > closely).  I've tried dozens of small adjustments to the image 
but
> > nothing seems to work.
> > 
> > Any ideas as to what else I can try?
> > 
> > Equipment:
> > Epson R220
> > UT-R2 inks
> > BO & full ink methods
> > EEM paper
> > with and without Paul's QTR profiles
> > 
> > Thanks!!!!!
> > 
> > Brian
> > http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL 
OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR 
LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; 
(ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL 
BW, THE
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] having trouble printing a particular image...

2006-05-03 by Andrew Darlow

Hi Brian:

Doing a print head alignment on the same exact paper might help a bit.
That might have been suggested already.

Using the highest possible resolution was another good tip posted recently.

All the best,

Andrew Darlow
-- 
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.andrewdarlow.com
http://www.imaginginfo.com

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