Digital BW, The Print

How do photographers decide when to use a textured paper for a photo?  
Are there certain types of photos that just scream out for texture?
Would appreciate any comments.

Thanks,
Charlotte

Hello Charlotte,

>How do photographers decide when to use a textured paper for a photo?  
>Are there certain types of photos that just scream out for texture?
>Would appreciate any comments.

Very good questions.  I am currently using quite a lot of Epson Velvet
Fine Art (VFA), a textured paper.  When I was doing mostly BO printing
with Eboni ink I didn't care much for VFA, and for textured papers in
general.  It's dmax was excellent, but it's general appearance wasn't
quite as good to my eye as some other papers.  For me the texture
looked good on some images and weakened others.  But with K3 inks and
the ABW driver this paper is another story, with better dmax than
Eboni, and glowing highlights.  It is such a dynamic and alive paper
with K3/ABW that it outweighs the texture considerations for me.  It
has become my preferred paper and I've just issued a boxed portfolio
set using it.

Here are some thoughts about texture, in no particular order:

1) All textures are not alike.  The patterns can look random, or they
can look uniform and mechanical.  The mechanical looking ones appear
to be applied by rollers that impress the pattern into the paper after
it is made.  Others look more random, as if it is part of the paper
making process.  

The patterns are made up of adjacent raised and depressed areas. 
Either type of area can be dominant.  The areas of the pattern can be
large or small, and the depth difference between the raised and
lowered areas can be slight or pronounced.  All of these things can
vary independently, so the result is a wide difference of appearance
and effect among the various textured papers.  For example, Museo Max
looks like a smooth paper with depressed fissures, which appear as a
wave-like pattern.  Innova Cold Press looks like a smooth paper with
an even distribution of large raised soft-edged bumps.  Innova Soft
Texture has shallow depth and completely random shapes and sizes in
the pattern, PhotoRag has a very tiny pattern of equally sized bumps
and fissures, interspersed with areas of smoothness.  VFA is evenly
patterned, with pattern elements larger than PR but much smaller than
Cold Press (I think of it as being on the lower side of medium). 
Every one is at least a little bit different.  Some look crisp, some
look blotchy.  Some look handsome, some, especially the mechanical
ones, look ugly to me.

2) When a photo is viewed from a distance, such as a large
framed-under-glass print on a wall, texture becomes irrelevent.  When
you are looking closely at a small print, texture is more significant.
 When holding an unmatted print in one's hand, the tactile impressions
become an important part of the mix.  Very different impressions form
in the mind when holding the same image on different papers, say a
textured paper like VFA compared to an ultra smooth matte paper like
Fiba Photo - both with excellent dmax and other visual qualities. 
This is important because, after all, the effect of any art boils down
to the response of the viewer's nervous system.  Tactile and visual
impressions mix in the mind to form the final experience.

3) So it largely depends on how the photo will be viewed.  I recently
issued a boxed set of landscapes on letter size paper.  The prints are
meant to be held in the hand.  I debated at some length on which paper
to use, wondering whether texture would be an asset or a distraction.
 I finally chose to use VFA, mainly because of it's richness with K3
ink.  But also because it is one of the more handsome of all the
textured papers I've seen, and has a very elegant feel to it.  I think
it was a good decision, as the first customer came back with high
praise for the paper.


Ultimately, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you just have to
try different papers and decide what looks the best to you.  I don't
know if this answers your question or not, but I hope it helps.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

I think you have to have a more elemental reaction to materials than that. It's a bit like 
"rules" such as - cool prints for snow scenes, warm prints for portraits.
You'll not find our most admired artists thinking like that.

Just look at the paper, do you like it? Do your images seem more alive on it than another?
We often look for quick solutions for choices, forgetting our instincts for pure visual 
motivation.
But that's why we atarted doing photography in the first place.

One common misconception, texture won't support photographic detail. Not true, the 
coatings hold the dot quite well even on strong textures. Strong light may cause the 
surface texture to compete with image texture, but that's a different deal, and still not 
necessarily bad.

Get some sample packs and decide for yourself, based on your simple direct visual 
reaction- that's my potentially useless advice.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "cieloblu22000" <cieloblu@...> 
wrote:

>
> How do photographers decide when to use a textured paper for a photo?  
> Are there certain types of photos that just scream out for texture?
> Would appreciate any comments.
> 
> Thanks,
> Charlotte
>

Clayton Jones wrote:
> ... I recently
> issued a boxed set of landscapes on letter size paper.  The prints are
> meant to be held in the hand.  I debated at some length on which paper
> to use, wondering whether texture would be an asset or a distraction.
>  I finally chose to use VFA, mainly because of it's richness with K3
> ink.  But also because it is one of the more handsome of all the
> textured papers I've seen, and has a very elegant feel to it.  I think
> it was a good decision, as the first customer came back with high
> praise for the paper.

Clayton, did you matte each print in the box, or interleave the prints?

Peter Marquis-Kyle

Hello Peter,

>Clayton, did you matte each print in the box, or interleave 
>the prints?

I used interleave sheets.  There is a photo of a boxed set on the web
site ( http://www.cjcom.net/portset.htm ).  It shows pretty clearly
what it looks like.  I was not happy with the thin tissue type
interleave paper.  It seemed too flimsy to stand the test of time and
use.  Instead I used a very nice light weight acid free drawing paper.  

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Clayton Jones wrote:
> I used interleave sheets.  There is a photo of a boxed set on the web
> site ( http://www.cjcom.net/portset.htm ).  It shows pretty clearly
> what it looks like.  I was not happy with the thin tissue type
> interleave paper.  It seemed too flimsy to stand the test of time and
> use.  Instead I used a very nice light weight acid free drawing paper.  


Thanks Clayton, a nice solution.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Peter,
> 
> >Clayton, did you matte each print in the box, or interleave 
> >the prints?
> 
> I used interleave sheets.  There is a photo of a boxed set on the web
> site ( http://www.cjcom.net/portset.htm ).  It shows pretty clearly
> what it looks like.  I was not happy with the thin tissue type
> interleave paper.  It seemed too flimsy to stand the test of time and
> use.  Instead I used a very nice light weight acid free drawing paper.  

OK, which "very nice" drawing paper? I'm unhappy with my current
separators. Do you know anything with a translucent vellum or
"glassine" look?

And what boxes are you using these days.

Clayton and Tyler, Thank you very much for your comments.

Clayton, I have the 2400 and have gotten some of the papers you 
evaluated... epson velvet, Hm photo rag,kayenta, merlin smooth, and 
peregrine velvet. It has been great fun to use the papers and 
settings you suggest and see the wonderful results. I so appreciate 
your willingness to share what you know. It has given me some 
direction and made it much easier to explore the BW world on the 
2400.  I, too, fell in love with the k3 inks on the Epson Velvet. It 
really is a breathtaking combination.  Then I started worrying about 
the texture and wondering if it would be distracting. I hated the 
idea of giving that paper up. I knew nothing about printing on a 
textured paper and your and Tyler's comments helped a lot. 

Charlotte

p.s. I have to tell you, also, I love the Peregrine Velvet for my 
sand dune pictures with the H & v settings you suggested. A real 
knockout!

Hello Charlotte,

Yep, great printer, great ink, great papers - how can you lose <g>. 
I'm glad it's working for you and the info has been helpful.


Regards,
Clayton

Hello Koloshor,

>OK, which "very nice" drawing paper? 

In our local Jerry's Artarama I found a 9x12 sketch pad called
"Biggie" by Canson, with 125 sheets.  The sheets are acid free, with a
very smooth surface, slightly off-white in color, and while not
translucent, are thin enough that the underlying image shows through a
bit.  It has a nice look and feel that goes well with the white lining
of the box, and it's quick and easy to cut them down to size four at a
time with a rotary paper cutter.  

The thin tissue type sheets sold as interleave paper require you to
have a surgeon's skill and great care to manipulate them without
folding & wrinkling, etc.  Perfectly maddening.  This drawing paper is
much better and is not an annoying distraction when viewing the prints.


>Do you know anything with a translucent vellum or "glassine" look?

Nothing in particular, but there are probably some nice vellum drawing
papers out there that would do nicely.  You just have to go to a big
art supply with lots of choices and see what's there.

 
>And what boxes are you using these days.

I found some nice ones at a reasonable price at printfile.com (look
under "Archival Boxes and Accessories").  Black clamshell, white
lining, 1 3/8" deep.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

I'm so glad the paper worked so well for you!

Diana York ~ Hawk Mountain Papers
Professional Inkjet Photo & Fine Art Papers
toll free 888-807-2248
http://www.hawkmtpaper.com <http://www.hawkmtpaper.com> 

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
cieloblu22000
<snip>  p.s. I have to tell you, also, I love the Peregrine Velvet for my 
sand dune pictures with the H & v settings you suggested. A real 
knockout!