Digital BW, The Print

I did a quick search on this topic but didn't find anything, so I 
thought I'd post this suggestion. 

I've participated in print exchanges before and would like to do so 
again. But I think it would be fascinating to see what photographers 
would do with each other's digital files. In other words, let's say 
there are 5 participants. Each makes available a high quality scan 
(via e-mail or ftp, etc.), which is uploaded by the other 4 
participants. The 4 "receivers" then edit the files in Photoshop 
using their own visualization and technique. These finished files are 
then returned to the original photographer, ideally with some notes 
on what was done. The original "senders" can then print the files and 
compare the results if they choose. 

I think this would be a fascinating learning experience from both 
points of view. The sending photographer will almost certainly learn 
new techniques or ways of seeing the image, from the variations 
produced. The receiving photographers also will learn something. I 
think we sometimes get too close to our own images and by practicing 
on the work of others, we somehow will get liberated to experiment 
more. I expect we also learn when we start articulating what we did 
and why, in terms of workflow.

In addition to the above benefits, there are no postage costs and no 
onerous work for whoever coordinates the exchange. If the 
photographers wish to take things further and return the finished 
files as prints, that's up to them. But my real interest is the 
workflow aspect.

What do people think? Any suggestions to refine this and make it more 
interesting or useful?

Mark

In Photoshop CS2, if the Preferences>General>History Log is checked  
and set on metadata>detail if will "imbed" every step that was done  
to the file when it was "worked on". When anyone opens the file  
later, just do file info>history, and see what was done.

This is also a handy way to "look up" what you did to a file months  
later if you need to do the same to a new file.

The other Mark

On May 19, 2006, at 10:26 AM, mccarvill wrote:

> These finished files are
> then returned to the original photographer, ideally with some notes
> on what was done.

Mark,

An excellent idea!  I have often wished there was a way for someone 
besides my wife and friends to critique my work.  I have a some good 
scans of the Sierras I'd offer.

Bob Marsolais


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mccarvill" 
<mark_mccarvill@...> wrote:
>
> I did a quick search on this topic but didn't find anything, so I 
> thought I'd post this suggestion. 
> 
> I've participated in print exchanges before and would like to do 
so 
> again. But I think it would be fascinating to see what 
photographers 
> would do with each other's digital files. In other words, let's 
say 
> there are 5 participants. Each makes available a high quality scan 
> (via e-mail or ftp, etc.), which is uploaded by the other 4 
> participants. The 4 "receivers" then edit the files in Photoshop 
> using their own visualization and technique. These finished files 
are 
> then returned to the original photographer, ideally with some 
notes 
> on what was done. The original "senders" can then print the files 
and 
> compare the results if they choose. 
> 
> I think this would be a fascinating learning experience from both 
> points of view. The sending photographer will almost certainly 
learn 
> new techniques or ways of seeing the image, from the variations 
> produced. The receiving photographers also will learn something. I 
> think we sometimes get too close to our own images and by 
practicing 
> on the work of others, we somehow will get liberated to experiment 
> more. I expect we also learn when we start articulating what we 
did 
> and why, in terms of workflow.
> 
> In addition to the above benefits, there are no postage costs and 
no 
> onerous work for whoever coordinates the exchange. If the 
> photographers wish to take things further and return the finished 
> files as prints, that's up to them. But my real interest is the 
> workflow aspect.
> 
> What do people think? Any suggestions to refine this and make it 
more 

> interesting or useful?
> 
> Mark
>

Mark,

Cool! Didn't know about this.

Do you know if there's a way to do this for select files only--other
than trying to remember to set/reset preferences for those particular
instances when I'd want to save the history?

Also, any idea how this affects file size--if at all?

Thanks...

Tom Keesling



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:

>
> In Photoshop CS2, if the Preferences>General>History Log is checked  
> and set on metadata>detail if will "imbed" every step that was done  
> to the file when it was "worked on". When anyone opens the file  
> later, just do file info>history, and see what was done.
> 
> This is also a handy way to "look up" what you did to a file months  
> later if you need to do the same to a new file.
> 
> The other Mark
> 
> On May 19, 2006, at 10:26 AM, mccarvill wrote:
> 
> > These finished files are
> > then returned to the original photographer, ideally with some notes
> > on what was done.
>

Being it is a preference setting I do not think you can script it.  
There are other sub-settings for it, such as creating a separate text  
file or sessions only. This might work. If you have CS2, try all the  
settings and see what works for you.
As far as how much it adds to the file, seems like average of 2-5k,  
almost nothing.
Mark

On May 19, 2006, at 10:11 PM, Tom Keesling wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Cool! Didn't know about this.
>
> Do you know if there's a way to do this for select files only--other
> than trying to remember to set/reset preferences for those particular
> instances when I'd want to save the history?
>
> Also, any idea how this affects file size--if at all?
>
> Thanks...
>
> Tom Keesling
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@...> wrote:
> >
> > In Photoshop CS2, if the Preferences>General>History Log is checked
> > and set on metadata>detail if will "imbed" every step that was done
> > to the file when it was "worked on". When anyone opens the file
> > later, just do file info>history, and see what was done.
> >
> > This is also a handy way to "look up" what you did to a file months
> > later if you need to do the same to a new file.
> >
> > The other Mark
> >
> > On May 19, 2006, at 10:26 AM, mccarvill wrote:
> >
> > > These finished files are
> > > then returned to the original photographer, ideally with some  
> notes
> > > on what was done.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
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> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mark,
   I knew you could save a 'history log' on your desktop (as text 
file), but my understanding was it wasn't attached to the file 
itself, it's just a running log kept on your desktop. I tried to make 
it work the way you instructed. I turned it on (metadata), created a 
new project, saved it and when I reopened it and went into file 
info>history, the only info it gave me was the date and that I had 
saved it in PSD form, not each action that I did on the file 
(gradient, painting new layer etc). What am I doing wrong?
Debbi



>
>  >
>>
>>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
>>  <mark@...> wrote:
>>  >
>>  > In Photoshop CS2, if the Preferences>General>History Log is checked
>>  > and set on metadata>detail if will "imbed" every step that was done
>>  > to the file when it was "worked on". When anyone opens the file
>>  > later, just do file info>history, and see what was done.
>>  >
>>  > This is also a handy way to "look up" what you did to a file months
>>  > later if you need to do the same to a new file.
>>  >
>  > > The other Mark
>
-- 
Debbi in California
http://www.pbase.com/debbi

Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!

Yes, me too.  I think it would be handy to have the history available as
part of the each image if it isn't too big a file.  After I set it up in
CS2, made some changes to an image and then went to File Info I didn't have
a history selection in Meta Data.  I couldn't see how to set that up in XML
either.

Tom

On 5/20/06, Debbi <corkie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>    I knew you could save a 'history log' on your desktop (as text
> file), but my understanding was it wasn't attached to the file
> itself, it's just a running log kept on your desktop. I tried to make
> it work the way you instructed. I turned it on (metadata), created a
> new project, saved it and when I reopened it and went into file
> info>history, the only info it gave me was the date and that I had
> saved it in PSD form, not each action that I did on the file
> (gradient, painting new layer etc). What am I doing wrong?
> Debbi
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have it on my files in CS and helped some one get started with CS2 and
they  are there. I also could see them from files I had worked on years ago.


Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street
Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
http://ericneilsenphotography.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom
> Husband
> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 10:32 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Digital file exchange
> 
> Yes, me too.  I think it would be handy to have the history available as
> part of the each image if it isn't too big a file.  After I set it up in
> CS2, made some changes to an image and then went to File Info I didn't
> have
> a history selection in Meta Data.  I couldn't see how to set that up in
> XML
> either.
> 
> Tom
> 
> On 5/20/06, Debbi <corkie@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> >    I knew you could save a 'history log' on your desktop (as text
> > file), but my understanding was it wasn't attached to the file
> > itself, it's just a running log kept on your desktop. I tried to make
> > it work the way you instructed. I turned it on (metadata), created a
> > new project, saved it and when I reopened it and went into file
> > info>history, the only info it gave me was the date and that I had
> > saved it in PSD form, not each action that I did on the file
> > (gradient, painting new layer etc). What am I doing wrong?
> > Debbi
> >
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Can you start a new file on a new image and send 
it to me. I really want to see what you are 
talking about.
Debbi



>I have it on my files in CS and helped some one get started with CS2 and
>they  are there. I also could see them from files I had worked on years ago.
>
>
>Eric Neilsen Photography
>4101 Commerce Street
>Suite 9
>Dallas, TX 75226
><http://e.neilsen.home.att.net>http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
><http://ericneilsenphotography.com>http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom
>>  Husband
>>  Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 10:32 AM
>>  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m
>>  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Digital file exchange
>>
>>  Yes, me too.  I think it would be handy to have the history available as
>>  part of the each image if it isn't too big a file.  After I set it up in
>>  CS2, made some changes to an image and then went to File Info I didn't
>>  have
>>  a history selection in Meta Data.  I couldn't see how to set that up in
>>  XML
>>  either.
>>
>>  Tom
>>
>>  On 5/20/06, Debbi <corkie@...> wrote:
>>  >
>>  > Hi Mark,
>>  >    I knew you could save a 'history log' on your desktop (as text
>>  > file), but my understanding was it wasn't attached to the file
>>  > itself, it's just a running log kept on your desktop. I tried to make
>>  > it work the way you instructed. I turned it on (metadata), created a
>>  > new project, saved it and when I reopened it and went into file
>>  > info>history, the only info it gave me was the date and that I had
>>  > saved it in PSD form, not each action that I did on the file
>>  > (gradient, painting new layer etc). What am I doing wrong?
>>  > Debbi
>>  >
>>  >
>>
>>
>>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>>  they are often being updated.
>>
>> 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>>  unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>>  page.
>>
>>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>>  them short.
>>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>>  Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>>  membership without notice.
>>  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
>>  printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
>>  the membership.
>>  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>>  guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>>  and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
>>  section:
>> 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>>  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>>  YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
>>  MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
>>  YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>>  EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>>  PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
>>  OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>>  ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>>  OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>>  UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>>  STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>>  YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>>  PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>  >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the 
>Files, and other resources as they are often 
>being updated.
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily 
>digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit 
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>same page.
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>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions 
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>- Good manners are required at all time. No 
>personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive 
>or argumentative users may be removed from the 
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the 
>group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who 
>persistently make off-topic posts may be removed 
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>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by 
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>Moderators. See ìGroup Topic, Rules and 
>Guidelinesî in the Files section:
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO 
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>EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE ìOWNERî 
>AND ìMODERATORSî OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO 
>GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
>INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
>EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
>DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA 
>OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  ìOWNERî 
>AND ìMODERATORSî OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO 
>GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
>SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR 
>THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
>YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
>ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE 
>DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
>OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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>
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-- 
Debbi in California
http://www.pbase.com/debbi

Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have metadata>detailed selected.
Mark


On May 20, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Debbi wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>    I knew you could save a 'history log' on your desktop (as text
> file), but my understanding was it wasn't attached to the file
> itself, it's just a running log kept on your desktop. I tried to make
> it work the way you instructed. I turned it on (metadata), created a
> new project, saved it and when I reopened it and went into file
> info>history, the only info it gave me was the date and that I had
> saved it in PSD form, not each action that I did on the file
> (gradient, painting new layer etc). What am I doing wrong?
> Debbi
>
>
>
> >
> >  >
> >>
> >>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> >>  <mark@...> wrote:
> >>  >
> >>  > In Photoshop CS2, if the Preferences>General>History Log is  
> checked
> >>  > and set on metadata>detail if will "imbed" every step that  
> was done
> >>  > to the file when it was "worked on". When anyone opens the file
> >>  > later, just do file info>history, and see what was done.
> >>  >
> >>  > This is also a handy way to "look up" what you did to a file  
> months
> >>  > later if you need to do the same to a new file.
> >>  >
> >  > > The other Mark
> >
> -- 
> Debbi in California
> http://www.pbase.com/debbi
>
> Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they  
> loved!
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks so much!
Debbi


>Have metadata>detailed selected.
>Mark
>
>
>On May 20, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Debbi wrote:
>
>>  Hi Mark,
>>     I knew you could save a 'history log' on your desktop (as text
>>  file), but my understanding was it wasn't attached to the file
>>  itself, it's just a running log kept on your desktop. I tried to make
>>  it work the way you instructed. I turned it on (metadata), created a
>>  new project, saved it and when I reopened it and went into file
>>  info>history, the only info it gave me was the date and that I had
>>  saved it in PSD form, not each action that I did on the file
>>  (gradient, painting new layer etc). What am I doing wrong?
>>  Debbi
>>
>>
>>
>>  >
>>  >  >
>>  >>
>>  >>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
>>  >>  <mark@...> wrote:
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > In Photoshop CS2, if the Preferences>General>History Log is 
>>  checked
>>  >>  > and set on metadata>detail if will "imbed" every step that 
>>  was done
>>  >>  > to the file when it was "worked on". When anyone opens the file
>>  >>  > later, just do file info>history, and see what was done.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > This is also a handy way to "look up" what you did to a file 
>>  months
>>  >>  > later if you need to do the same to a new file.
>>  >>  >
>>  >  > > The other Mark
>  > >
>  >

-- 
Debbi in California
http://www.pbase.com/debbi

Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!