Digital BW, The Print

Some may remember a few months back I expressed interest in a paper 
called Sihl Iridium Satin. It is very nice material for an RC paper, 
but the biggest drawback (until now) was unavailabilty in sheets. 
That discouraged any real interest by list members, and its just as 
well. I finally got around to doing an informal south-window 
yellowing test, and the results were not good. But I put up some 
other papers that have also been mentioned on this forum lately, and 
one that hasn't, and I can at least suggest a viable new candidate 
for those needing a luster/satin RC paper for commercial printing.

The papers I put up were: Sihl Iridium satin, Magiclee Lustre 
Photobase, Inkpress RC Lustre, Ilford Soft Gloss (yeah I know, it's 
glossy not lustre) and Oriental Graphica lustre RC. As control and 
comparison I also put up Photo rag, William Turner, and Epson 
enhanced matte. The enhanced Matte went up 3 days after the rest, it 
was a bit of an afterthought.

I left them up for only 12 days before I checked them, and after 
that short a period this is what I saw:

The enhanced matte (after only 9 days!) yelloewd the most, enough 
that no control print comparison was needed to see the shift. No 
surprise there.

Next in order of visible change was the Magiclee Photobase, Sihl 
Iridium, and the Inkpress Lustre. The Oriental Graphica survived the 
best of the lustre papers, on a par with the Ilford Soft gloss. 
There may be a measurable yellow shift in those two, but since I 
don't have a spectro, I can't verify.

There was no visible shift in either the Photo Rag or the Willie 
Turner.


That's the bad news. The good new is that the Oriental Graphica is a 
fairly attractive paper (for an RC) prints well in color, takes the 
K3 & K4 inks well (but not the older UC inks) has good Dmax (anyone 
care to measure it for the group?) and is available in both rolls 
and sheets up to 13 x 19. Guess I'll give it a whirl.

Steve Karafyllakis

Steve,

Send them to me for Dmax measurements. You already have my address. I 
acnnot measure color shifts, just Dmax.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> Some may remember a few months back I expressed interest in a paper 
> called Sihl Iridium Satin. It is very nice material for an RC 
paper, 
> but the biggest drawback (until now) was unavailabilty in sheets. 
> That discouraged any real interest by list members, and its just as 
> well. I finally got around to doing an informal south-window 
> yellowing test, and the results were not good. But I put up some 
> other papers that have also been mentioned on this forum lately, 
and 
> one that hasn't, and I can at least suggest a viable new candidate 
> for those needing a luster/satin RC paper for commercial printing.
> 
> The papers I put up were: Sihl Iridium satin, Magiclee Lustre 
> Photobase, Inkpress RC Lustre, Ilford Soft Gloss (yeah I know, it's 
> glossy not lustre) and Oriental Graphica lustre RC. As control and 
> comparison I also put up Photo rag, William Turner, and Epson 
> enhanced matte. The enhanced Matte went up 3 days after the rest, 
it 
> was a bit of an afterthought.
> 
> I left them up for only 12 days before I checked them, and after 
> that short a period this is what I saw:
> 
> The enhanced matte (after only 9 days!) yelloewd the most, enough 
> that no control print comparison was needed to see the shift. No 
> surprise there.
> 
> Next in order of visible change was the Magiclee Photobase, Sihl 
> Iridium, and the Inkpress Lustre. The Oriental Graphica survived 
the 
> best of the lustre papers, on a par with the Ilford Soft gloss. 
> There may be a measurable yellow shift in those two, but since I 
> don't have a spectro, I can't verify.
> 
> There was no visible shift in either the Photo Rag or the Willie 
> Turner.
> 
> 
> That's the bad news. The good new is that the Oriental Graphica is 
a 

> fairly attractive paper (for an RC) prints well in color, takes the 
> K3 & K4 inks well (but not the older UC inks) has good Dmax (anyone 
> care to measure it for the group?) and is available in both rolls 
> and sheets up to 13 x 19. Guess I'll give it a whirl.
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@...> wrote:
>

> 
> The enhanced matte (after only 9 days!) yelloewd the most, enough 
> that no control print comparison was needed to see the shift. No 
> surprise there.
> 
Steve,

Can you tell if there was loss of density in the image as well with
this paper ?

TIA,
André

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@...> wrote:
> (anyone care to measure it for the group?)
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
>

Are you testing color or B/W performance? CMYK RIP or no RIP (Epson
driver)? I have something I need to make a cable for and check first,
and if you felt like doing the test again with a different target.
You're in the US, correct?

I'm thinking a simple 135 patch RGB profile target (or maybe 343
patches if I can get the print small enough). Maybe a grayscale target
for those with only grayscale inks, but I would need to look into that
too. Two prints would need to be made, one exposed to light, and one
sealed away from air in the dark (to keep it from being exposed to
gases). If it works correctly I have an automated measuring device,
and that device uses very small targets, so it would be a small print
probably around 4x6 size or smaller.

I am using the MIS k4 inks (photo K and both LK and LLK in an R1800) 
with the R1800 MIS Pro blue and cyan for neutralizing) I saw no 
signs of fading with any of the papers, but after only 12 days I 
would expect to have to measure, which I'm not equipped to do. But 
fade wasn't the point-I wanted to know if there would be 
unnacceptably rapid yellowing of the paper base color.


Steve

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andre" 
<am1000@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
> Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@> wrote:
> >
> 
> > 
> > The enhanced matte (after only 9 days!) yelloewd the most, 
enough 

> > that no control print comparison was needed to see the shift. No 
> > surprise there.
> > 
> Steve,
> 
> Can you tell if there was loss of density in the image as well with
> this paper ?
> 
> TIA,
> André
>

Greg;

As I mentioned in the previous reply, I wasn't really testing either 
color or B&W. However, if you'd like to do so, at this point I still 
have some of the Iridium I could send you, and also the Oriental 
Graphica lustre. Yes, I'm in the US, if you're interested send a 
mail address, I'll send you a few sheets 

Steve


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" 
<dfaprinting@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
> Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@> wrote:
> > (anyone care to measure it for the group?)
> > 
> > Steve Karafyllakis
> >
> 
> Are you testing color or B/W performance? CMYK RIP or no RIP (Epson
> driver)? I have something I need to make a cable for and check 
first,
> and if you felt like doing the test again with a different target.
> You're in the US, correct?
> 
> I'm thinking a simple 135 patch RGB profile target (or maybe 343
> patches if I can get the print small enough). Maybe a grayscale 
target
> for those with only grayscale inks, but I would need to look into 
that
> too. Two prints would need to be made, one exposed to light, and 
one
> sealed away from air in the dark (to keep it from being exposed to
> gases). If it works correctly I have an automated measuring device,
> and that device uses very small targets, so it would be a small 
print
> probably around 4x6 size or smaller.
>

A few weeks ago I received a sample roll of Sihl Iridium Satin. I've
been very impressed with the surface -- just enough gloss to enhance
the image without distracting reflections, and the the same goes for
its texture. I'd like to continue using the paper, so what you report
concerns me. However, 1) if the the yellowing is only noticeable
through comparison with "fresh" sheets, 2) it stops yellowing at that
point, and 3)there is no significant/noticeable fading, then this
paper may be good for my purposes. After all, doesn't traditional
fiber paper with OBAs yellow to some extent also? At any rate, thanks
for the information. I look forward to reading any fade test results.

Chris Hargens



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> 
> Some may remember a few months back I expressed interest in a paper 
> called Sihl Iridium Satin. It is very nice material for an RC paper, 
> but the biggest drawback (until now) was unavailabilty in sheets. 
> That discouraged any real interest by list members, and its just as 
> well. I finally got around to doing an informal south-window 
> yellowing test, and the results were not good. But I put up some 
> other papers that have also been mentioned on this forum lately, and 
> one that hasn't, and I can at least suggest a viable new candidate 
> for those needing a luster/satin RC paper for commercial printing.
> 
> The papers I put up were: Sihl Iridium satin, Magiclee Lustre 
> Photobase, Inkpress RC Lustre, Ilford Soft Gloss (yeah I know, it's 
> glossy not lustre) and Oriental Graphica lustre RC. As control and 
> comparison I also put up Photo rag, William Turner, and Epson 
> enhanced matte. The enhanced Matte went up 3 days after the rest, it 
> was a bit of an afterthought.
> 
> I left them up for only 12 days before I checked them, and after 
> that short a period this is what I saw:
> 
> The enhanced matte (after only 9 days!) yelloewd the most, enough 
> that no control print comparison was needed to see the shift. No 
> surprise there.
> 
> Next in order of visible change was the Magiclee Photobase, Sihl 
> Iridium, and the Inkpress Lustre. The Oriental Graphica survived the 
> best of the lustre papers, on a par with the Ilford Soft gloss. 
> There may be a measurable yellow shift in those two, but since I 
> don't have a spectro, I can't verify.
> 
> There was no visible shift in either the Photo Rag or the Willie 
> Turner.
> 
> 
> That's the bad news. The good new is that the Oriental Graphica is a 
> fairly attractive paper (for an RC) prints well in color, takes the 
> K3 & K4 inks well (but not the older UC inks) has good Dmax (anyone 
> care to measure it for the group?) and is available in both rolls 
> and sheets up to 13 x 19. Guess I'll give it a whirl.
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
>

A few weeks ago I received a sample roll of Sihl Iridium Satin. I've
been very impressed with the surface -- just enough gloss to enhance
the image without distracting reflections, and the the same goes for
its texture. I'd like to continue using the paper, so what you report
concerns me. However, 1) if the the yellowing is only noticeable
through comparison with "fresh" sheets, 2) it stops yellowing at that
point, and 3)there is no significant/noticeable fading, then this
paper may be good for my purposes. After all, doesn't traditional
fiber paper with OBAs yellow to some extent also? At any rate, thanks
for the information. I look forward to reading any fade test results.

Chris Hargens

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, "Steven
Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> 
> Some may remember a few months back I expressed interest in a paper 
> called Sihl Iridium Satin. It is very nice material for an RC paper, 
> but the biggest drawback (until now) was unavailabilty in sheets. 
> That discouraged any real interest by list members, and its just as 
> well. I finally got around to doing an informal south-window 
> yellowing test, and the results were not good. But I put up some 
> other papers that have also been mentioned on this forum lately, and 
> one that hasn't, and I can at least suggest a viable new candidate 
> for those needing a luster/satin RC paper for commercial printing.
> 
> The papers I put up were: Sihl Iridium satin, Magiclee Lustre 
> Photobase, Inkpress RC Lustre, Ilford Soft Gloss (yeah I know, it's 
> glossy not lustre) and Oriental Graphica lustre RC. As control and 
> comparison I also put up Photo rag, William Turner, and Epson 
> enhanced matte. The enhanced Matte went up 3 days after the rest, it 
> was a bit of an afterthought.
> 
> I left them up for only 12 days before I checked them, and after 
> that short a period this is what I saw:
> 
> The enhanced matte (after only 9 days!) yelloewd the most, enough 
> that no control print comparison was needed to see the shift. No 
> surprise there.
> 
> Next in order of visible change was the Magiclee Photobase, Sihl 
> Iridium, and the Inkpress Lustre. The Oriental Graphica survived the 
> best of the lustre papers, on a par with the Ilford Soft gloss. 
> There may be a measurable yellow shift in those two, but since I 
> don't have a spectro, I can't verify.
> 
> There was no visible shift in either the Photo Rag or the Willie 
> Turner.
> 
> 
> That's the bad news. The good new is that the Oriental Graphica is a 
> fairly attractive paper (for an RC) prints well in color, takes the 
> K3 & K4 inks well (but not the older UC inks) has good Dmax (anyone 
> care to measure it for the group?) and is available in both rolls 
> and sheets up to 13 x 19. Guess I'll give it a whirl.
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
>

Hi Chris;

I still like the paper too; now that I finally have a densitometer 
I'll put some pieces out for a fade test. Frankly, I hadn't 
considered that the yellowing might stop, but if it is being caused 
by OBAs burning off, its possible. 

Steve Karafyllakis

http://www.stevekphoto.com

--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tzinzunzan2006" 
<tzinzunzan2006@...> wrote:
>
> A few weeks ago I received a sample roll of Sihl Iridium Satin. 
I've
> been very impressed with the surface -- just enough gloss to 
enhance
> the image without distracting reflections, and the the same goes 
for
> its texture. I'd like to continue using the paper, so what you 
report
> concerns me. However, 1) if the the yellowing is only noticeable
> through comparison with "fresh" sheets, 2) it stops yellowing at 
that
> point, and 3)there is no significant/noticeable fading, then this
> paper may be good for my purposes. After all, doesn't traditional
> fiber paper with OBAs yellow to some extent also? At any rate, 
thanks
> for the information. I look forward to reading any fade test 
results.
> 
> Chris Hargens
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
> Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Some may remember a few months back I expressed interest in a 
paper 
> > called Sihl Iridium Satin. It is very nice material for an RC 
paper, 
> > but the biggest drawback (until now) was unavailabilty in 
sheets. 
> > That discouraged any real interest by list members, and its just 
as 
> > well. I finally got around to doing an informal south-window 
> > yellowing test, and the results were not good. But I put up some 
> > other papers that have also been mentioned on this forum lately, 
and 
> > one that hasn't, and I can at least suggest a viable new 
candidate 
> > for those needing a luster/satin RC paper for commercial 
printing.
> > 
> > The papers I put up were: Sihl Iridium satin, Magiclee Lustre 
> > Photobase, Inkpress RC Lustre, Ilford Soft Gloss (yeah I know, 
it's 
> > glossy not lustre) and Oriental Graphica lustre RC. As control 
and 
> > comparison I also put up Photo rag, William Turner, and Epson 
> > enhanced matte. The enhanced Matte went up 3 days after the 
rest, it 
> > was a bit of an afterthought.
> > 
> > I left them up for only 12 days before I checked them, and after 
> > that short a period this is what I saw:
> > 
> > The enhanced matte (after only 9 days!) yelloewd the most, 
enough 
> > that no control print comparison was needed to see the shift. No 
> > surprise there.
> > 
> > Next in order of visible change was the Magiclee Photobase, Sihl 
> > Iridium, and the Inkpress Lustre. The Oriental Graphica survived 
the 
> > best of the lustre papers, on a par with the Ilford Soft gloss. 
> > There may be a measurable yellow shift in those two, but since I 
> > don't have a spectro, I can't verify.
> > 
> > There was no visible shift in either the Photo Rag or the Willie 
> > Turner.
> > 
> > 
> > That's the bad news. The good new is that the Oriental Graphica 
is a 
> > fairly attractive paper (for an RC) prints well in color, takes 
the 
> > K3 & K4 inks well (but not the older UC inks) has good Dmax 
(anyone 
> > care to measure it for the group?) and is available in both 
rolls 

> > and sheets up to 13 x 19. Guess I'll give it a whirl.
> > 
> > Steve Karafyllakis
> >
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris;
> 
> I still like the paper too; now that I finally have a densitometer 
> I'll put some pieces out for a fade test. Frankly, I hadn't 
> considered that the yellowing might stop, but if it is being caused 
> by OBAs burning off, its possible. 
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
> 
> http://www.stevekphoto.com

If you feel like doing a color test, let me know and I'll make a very 
small chart to use.