Digital BW, The Print

Inspired by Clayton's article 
http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn10.htm
<http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn10.htm>  I'm considering to set up
an Epson R22o with a custom ink set. Unlike Clayton (who explains the
use of the Epson driver), I plan to use QTR to have even more
flexibility.

I wonder what my choices are. To what extent can I pick & choose from
the MIS UT inks?

For instance, I could start with the first five positions of the UT-R2
ink set as Clayton does. But what options would I have for the Y
position? Of course Photo Black, but could I also pick a Sepia or Cool
toner (to get cooler tones than neutral) from another ink set? But could
I also use (parts of the) UT/UT-2/UT-7 ink sets?

Of course I understand I have to build my own QTR curves for such a
custom ink set. But that would be part of the fun...

In order of priority my wishes are:

1) high quality Neutral (at least 2 shades + eboni?)

2)high quality Warm (at least 2 shades + eboni?)

3) cool toning (cooler than neutral)

4) sepia toning

5) photo black

  Thanks for any suggestions!

  Joost







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joost,

>... I'm considering to set up an Epson R22o with a custom ink set. 

> To what extent can I pick & choose from the MIS UT inks?

Look just at the hextone inks, but not the UT-FS M and Y, which are light
inks from the past that are no longer needed in modern printers.  The
hextone dark (C & M) inks are all about the same density, and the hextone
light (LC, LM, and Y) inks are all about the same density.

So, for example, you can easily use the sepia ink (y-position) from the UT2
or UT7 sets.  You can just put it in the y-position (or even the LC or LM
positions for stronger sepia or more smoothness if the Y-position alone
microbands).

The UT7 cool toner is a bit lower gamut than the UT2 cool toner.  (The sepia
and carbon inks are the same.)

>In order of priority my wishes are:

>1) high quality Neutral (at least 2 shades + eboni?)

I use carbon and R2 neutral inks (among others) now in my 7500.  I like the
R2 neutral better than the older UT-FSN because it uses less cyan.  The
ratio of cyan to R800 Blue in the mixes varies, because the papers I thought
were the best at the time changes.  Today, Crane Silver Rag is near the top,
and it tends to print more green.  Thus the R2 neutral (which is relatively
new) does a better job.  R2 neutral in one channel and carbon in the other
allows very good control around the neutral range.

>2)high quality Warm (at least 2 shades + eboni?)

The Neutral + Carbon only pulls up and down along a line.  Carbon is a
relatively yellow warm.  Thus an ink to pull the warm shades out along the
Lab a* axis is nice.  That is behind the UT-3D approach.  The 3D Y-position
ink, however, is not warm and not strong enough to make a sepia. The sepia
toner can pull up into the red area, but it has yellow in it (i.e., not very
lightfast).

>3) cool toning (cooler than neutral)

The R2 inks are actually neutral-cool, depending on paper.  The UT7 cool
toner is very cold.

>4) sepia toning

The sepia toner works -- I wish it were more lightfast.  (I'm going to work
on a lower gamut carbon + R800 Red to see if I can get a better compromise
for warmer than carbon and more lightfast than sepia.)

>5) photo black

You can just switch black inks.  It's so easy in a desktop printer; no need
to compromise.  The MIS PKN types are good, and Epson PK in some printers
hits very high dmaxs. 

Have fun.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your quick and concise reply.

Putting everything together it sounds to me a good setup would be:
* K-position: on-demand manual switch between eboni & photo black 
* C&LC-postion: R2 Neutral gray shades
* M&LM-position: R2 Warm gray shades
* Y position: on-demand manual switch between one of the sepia toners 
and the UT-7 cool toner

Seems to give me the best of all worlds. Right? 

Some more questions:     

> The UT7 cool toner is a bit lower gamut than the UT2 cool toner. 
>  [...]The UT7 cool toner is very cold.
In your article http://inksupply.com/ut2comments.cfm I don't see a 
UT2 cool toner. What do I miss?

>  That is behind the UT-3D approach.  
I looked at the UT-3D set as well. But there are so many warnings on 
the MIS site that this set is really for the experienced hair-
splitting professional (my words) that I shy away from it. I must 
confess I could not follow in all detail the few description I found 
on the profiling procedure. So better stick the set above + QTR?

Thanks & kind regards,

Joost

Joost,

>Putting everything together it sounds to me a good setup would be:
>* K-position: on-demand manual switch between eboni & photo black 
>* C&LC-postion: R2 Neutral gray shades
>* M&LM-position: R2 Warm gray shades
>* Y position: on-demand manual switch between one of the sepia toners 
>and the UT-7 cool toner

That's close to the standard UT7 and UT2.  For those I just used the cool
toner in one channel instead of the R2 neutral so that there'd be more range
on the cool side. Then I could just leave the sepia in the Y position. 

>Some more questions: 

>> The UT7 cool toner is a bit lower gamut than the UT2 cool toner. 
>> [...]The UT7 cool toner is very cold.

>In your article http://inksupply.com/ut2comments.cfm I don't 
>see a UT2 cool toner. What do I miss?

It's there near the beginning.  Basically the cyan channel is the cold
channel in the UT2 inkset.  In the UT7 it's the M channel.  See
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT-2200-Readme.htm 

>> That is behind the UT-3D approach. 

>I looked at the UT-3D set as well. But there are so many warnings on 
>the MIS site that this set is really for the experienced hair-
>splitting professional (my words) that I shy away from it. 

Getting the exact mix has been a problem, but, frankly, it affects all the
B&W inks.  Most won't notice that much, but I do.  And I'm not about to make
a lot of profiles until the issue is dealt with.  The supplier's LK, which
is used a lot in the mixes, is supposed to match the Epson LK.  The variance
from MIS's supplier (which also supplies many of the other third party
sellers) has been too high for me.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I use a sharp knife to shave the plastic pins even with the existing chip,
then it pops right off.  I then use about a 1/8 inch (3 mm) strip of tape at
the top of the chip to hold the new chip in place.  I have some white photo
tape about 1" (25 mm) wide that I cut into the small strips as needed.  It's
a bit thicker, more durable and more re-usable than typical transparent
tape.

 

MIS has a "silly-putty" type material it recommends behind the chip.  I find
the tape much easier to deal with.  Usually when I go to change chips the
tape carries the chip with it, and I re-use the tape with chip on the next
cart without ever having to touch the chip itself.  I don't know how long
these chips last or how many times I can reset them, but most keep going a
long time.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter De
Smidt
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:13 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Chip Installation

 

What's the recommended way to change/install cartridge chips? (I'm using 
an R2400 with MIS K4 ink, and I've been thinking of trying Paul's LLK in 
place of the yellow cartridge for BW.) Should one use glue, tape or ? 
Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Peter De Smidt

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What's the recommended way to change/install cartridge chips? (I'm using 
an R2400 with MIS K4 ink, and I've been thinking of trying Paul's LLK in 
place of the yellow cartridge for BW.)  Should one use glue, tape or ? 
Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Peter De Smidt

That's unfortunate. Am I correct in assuming this would also affect the MIS
Pro and MIS K4 inksets?

Terry.

> -----Original Message-----
> Paul Roark wrote:
> Sent: August 16, 2006 2:03 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Pick & choose inks for custom R220 inks?
>
> Getting the exact mix has been a problem, but, frankly, it 
> affects all the B&W inks.  Most won't notice that much, but I 
> do.  And I'm not about to make a lot of profiles until the 
> issue is dealt with.  The supplier's LK, which is used a lot 
> in the mixes, is supposed to match the Epson LK.  The 
> variance from MIS's supplier (which also supplies many of the 
> other third party
> sellers) has been too high for me.

The colors seem much more stable than the LK density.  It's really only
significant for B&W.  And for B&W it may be no worse than the historical
inconsistencies I've seen - in all the B&W inksets I've had experience with
from any seller.  But I'm not happy with those and trying to get MIS to
raise the bar.  

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry
Ritz
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:53 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Pick & choose inks for custom R220 inks?

 

That's unfortunate. Am I correct in assuming this would also affect the MIS
Pro and MIS K4 inksets?

Terry.

> -----Original Message-----
> Paul Roark wrote:
> Sent: August 16, 2006 2:03 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Pick & choose inks for custom R220 inks?
>
> Getting the exact mix has been a problem, but, frankly, it 
> affects all the B&W inks. Most won't notice that much, but I 
> do. And I'm not about to make a lot of profiles until the 
> issue is dealt with. The supplier's LK, which is used a lot 
> in the mixes, is supposed to match the Epson LK. The 
> variance from MIS's supplier (which also supplies many of the 
> other third party
> sellers) has been too high for me. 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Joost,
> 
> >Putting everything together it sounds to me a good setup would be:
> >* K-position: on-demand manual switch between eboni & photo black 
> >* C&LC-postion: R2 Neutral gray shades
> >* M&LM-position: R2 Warm gray shades
> >* Y position: on-demand manual switch between one of the sepia 
toners 
> >and the UT-7 cool toner
> 
> That's close to the standard UT7 and UT2.  For those I just used 
the cool
> toner in one channel instead of the R2 neutral so that there'd be 
more range
> on the cool side. Then I could just leave the sepia in the Y 
position. 

Thanks Paul,

I re-read your descriptions of the UT2 and UT7 inksets and I see 
what you mean. Now I realize I might have had only a partial 
understanding of the concept of a "toner". Now I think I understand 
it is mainly a matter of semantics whether one calls a substance 
a "toned ink" or a "toner". I guess the latter has a bit more 
pigments (other than carbon) than the former but there is no real 
hard boundary.

I'll follow your suggestion. In view of a possible future B&W 
transformation of my Epson2100, I guess it makes sense to go for the 
UT7 set without the Light Black. Plus an additional cartridge Photo 
Black to be manually exchanged with the Eboni Black for occasional 
glossy prints. 

Thanks again.
 
Joost