Digital BW, The Print

I've been making prints with an r220 and MIS R2 variable tone inkset (as suggested by one 
of Clayton's articles) using several different methods: 1) Black only, 2) using driver sliders 
as described by Clayton, 3) using Paul's ICC profiles and 4) a combination of Paul's ICC 
profiles to control density/tone and the Epson sliders to control temperature.

In all cases I am somewhat satisfied but mostly underwhelmed.  From what I had read 
here, I expected a significant improvement in print quality from my Canon MP800 with this 
r220.  However, this morning I printed out a few test files on my r220 and MP800, and 
there is very, very little difference.  In fact, in some cases, my MP800 (which is a fairly 
average Canon printer) performed better than the r220.

This file is one example (http://static.flickr.com/62/202370145_620711ee7a_o.jpg).  On 
my r220, the transition between solid black and lighter grey in the upper right corner is 
very abrubt.  It almost looks like I took a felt pen and colored it in.  On the MP800, 
however, it prints smoothly and appears basically as it does on my screen.  

A more detailed example which I would expect the r220 to really beat the MP800 is this: 
http://static.flickr.com/73/162049980_3126c60674_o.jpg.  But again, I see little 
difference between the MP800 and r220.

I keep telling myself there must be something I'm doing wrong, but I've gone over 
everything several times and all of the settings are correct.  At this point it seems the only 
reasonable conclusion is that the MP800 is a much better printer than I thought, or the 
r220 with MIS inks is not as great as I hoped.  

Now I'm wishing I would have got the 2200 or stretched and bought the r2400.  Do you 
have any thoughts?

Thanks,
Chris

Have you tried just using and ICC profile (that you made) without all of the other 'controls'?  I and many others have had great results from this printer for both b&w and color (with the MIS PRO inks. (I also print on a 9600, so I can compare results.)
   
  Abrupt transitions are not normally caused by the printer, but by faulty profiles, settings etetc.  
   
  Tom Baker




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...> wrote:
>
> Have you tried just using and ICC profile (that you made) without all of the other 'controls'?  
I and many others have had great results from this printer for both b&w and color (with the 
MIS PRO inks. (I also print on a 9600, so I can compare results.)
>    

Tom,

After some more testing, I determined that the abrubt transition was due to using "high 
speed" instead of best quality.  I was under the impression, from one article I read, that HS 
wasn't that much different than BQ.  But it certainly seems so, because when I printed that 
same file with BQ the transition was buttery smooth.

I have tried using Paul's ICC profile without any other settings.  But are you suggesting that I 
use the QTR software to make my own profile?  I haven't ventured into that territory yet, since 
I'm just getting started with all of this, but if it makes a big difference I'll give it a try.

Thanks for your help,
Chris

I've never printed with HS on the 220, or else I may have seen the same results.
   
  Since you're now getting good results after turning of the HS option, I would doubt that a custom profile would be significantly better.  I'm assuming, of course, that you're using an ink set that the ICC profile was created for.  If you deviate from that, then you might need to create custom profiles.  You can make an ICC profile that would yield 'acceptable' results using a scanner.  However, that's not the best way to go, obviously.
   
  Now that you've discovered the HS issue, the other things you were doing may well give you some good results. I wouldn't make the custom profile jump until it became obvious that it would be of value in the final prints you are looking to produce.
   
  Tom Baker
  

chriskjezp <chriskresser@...> wrote:
          --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...> wrote:
>
> Have you tried just using and ICC profile (that you made) without all of the other 'controls'? 
I and many others have had great results from this printer for both b&w and color (with the 
MIS PRO inks. (I also print on a 9600, so I can compare results.)
> 

Tom,

After some more testing, I determined that the abrubt transition was due to using "high 
speed" instead of best quality. I was under the impression, from one article I read, that HS 
wasn't that much different than BQ. But it certainly seems so, because when I printed that 
same file with BQ the transition was buttery smooth.

I have tried using Paul's ICC profile without any other settings. But are you suggesting that I 
use the QTR software to make my own profile? I haven't ventured into that territory yet, since 
I'm just getting started with all of this, but if it makes a big difference I'll give it a try.

Thanks for your help,
Chris



         


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I've never printed with HS on the 220, or else I may have seen 
> the same results. ...

It's odd, but the only printer I've used where High Speed seems to give good
results -- equal to the slower printing -- is the "lowly" C86 - C88.
Perhaps it's the lack of midtone crossovers that makes the difference.  In
the 2400 for the best image on glossy paper I even have to use "RPM" which
is a relatively slow printing speed.  On the C88 I ignore it. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Chris,

The problem you describe below is similar (probably exactly the same)
to a problem I had with this image:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/117916981/

The transition issue was particularly apparent around the "star" and
the transition to the dark background.  

I was never able to adequately resolve it with my R220 and the
"problem" appeared on a print that I ordered from one of the large
printing services (a Piezo print) - so I would say it is not the R220
itself causing it.  With the R220 the transitions were much better
with the Innova F-Type gloss and a print from the same service and
same file on Silver Rag didn't show the issue either.  A separate
print (Piezo as well) of the same file from a local printer produced a
much smoother transition.

While I am not currently printing myself, I would suggest looking in
to ways to linearize your system - here's a clip from Paul that I
found helpful when I was trying to figure it out.  I think it probably
takes a densitometer or a profiled scanner to do properly but the
definition is helpful nonetheless and I think a correctly linearized
sysetm would probably not produce the harsh transition you are
describing. 

"getting the printer to output a grayscale that is visually even and
smooth. That is, if a 21-step test file is printed, the steps should
be visually even -- or, more accurately, coincide with some
pre-determined, standard distribution of values."  

Hope this helps...

Brian
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/
http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chriskjezp"
<chriskresser@...> wrote:
This file is one example
(http://static.flickr.com/62/202370145_620711ee7a_o.jpg). On
my r220, the transition between solid black and lighter grey in the
upper right
corner is
very abrubt. It almost looks like I took a felt pen and colored it in.
On the
MP800,
however, it prints smoothly and appears basically as it does on my screen.

Thanks to everyone for your replies.  Now that I'm using "best quality", I'm not having the 
same issue.  However, I think I will try building my own ICC profile as described by Paul with 
QTR.  My scanner isn't profiled, but it's my understanding that it doesn't need to be for this 
to work.  Am I right?

Brian, that is a truly amazing photograph.  

Thanks again,
Chris

The procedure for making ICCs (grayscale) with a scanner includes a
procedure to "calibrate" the scanner.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
chriskjezp
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 5:55 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Underwhelmed with r220

 

Thanks to everyone for your replies. Now that I'm using "best quality", I'm
not having the 
same issue. However, I think I will try building my own ICC profile as
described by Paul with 
QTR. My scanner isn't profiled, but it's my understanding that it doesn't
need to be for this 
to work. Am I right?

Brian, that is a truly amazing photograph. 

Thanks again,
Chris

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]