Digital BW, The Print

Hi everybody,

My Problem: The Prints from my Epson Stylus Pro 4000 are to dark -
with a full calibrated MAC System. The problems are the deep/dark colors.

The Past: I'm working with MAC OS X (10.4.7) and a calibrated monitor
- with eye-one. I printed on Epson Paper with Epson ICC-Profiles. The
Prints were fine, even if the colors are not perfect. The typical
light magenta or cyan color problems thats all. But the levels (!!)
were perfect!

Know I have bought "Hahnemühle/Hahnemuehle" fineart paper and the
upgrade to eye-one-Photo to get the best results on the "best" paper. 

The last 3 days I have tested and calibrated and know I would like to
say, that my prints are nearly perfekt. The color- and the
black&white- prints are great and I was amazed about the perfect
colors and the perfect grey-tones...but only if I talk about colors.
Now the Prints are to dark.

After I have calibrated my system, there are major problems with the
dark colors / gray-tones. You can see a example here:

Original-Picture: http://www.diekadens.de/wp-downloads/original.jpg
Print (over a scanner, not calibrated):
http://www.diekadens.de/wp-downloads/print.jpg

I have found many stories in the internt about "dark prints" with
epson printers, but no resolution.

So what have I done to get a solution:

I have ...

... calibrated my monitor and the the printer again - no effect.
... printed with the epson-icc-files on epson paper - the levels were ok.
... downloaded the video-tutorial from Gretag to do the same workflow
(step by step) to calibrate my system (printer) - no effect.
... printed over softproof (I have it seen on "luminous-landscape.com"
and "computer-darkroom.com" - no effect (the same result).
... reinstalled photoshop, the mac printer subsystem and the drivers
(the steps "delete/reset" Photoshop, the printerdrivers and the print
subsystem are from Adobe) - no effect.

In the moment I'm pissed off - sorry for that words, but my invest
seems to be a bad bargain.

I hope, there is someone here in this group who can help me.

Best Regards Hans

Dear Hans,

Out of curiosity, are you assigning Gamma to 1.8 and, or 2.2
to your image, when saving your image file in PS?

Try this and see if it works...

Open your file, edit with Gamma 2.2 assigned to the image,
so it looks right to your eyes on the calibrated monitor, but
save the file ³without² the assigned gamma setting.

Print your file...

The print should look close to what you see on your monitor.

If it is still too dark, edit the file with Gamma 1.8 assigned
to the image, save the image file ³without² the assigned
gamma setting.

Print your file...

The print should look close to what you see on your monitor.

I am not an expert, but I had a problem similar to this issue
with another RIP, and I found out that the RIP had a default
gamma setting of 2.2, therefore making my images print
darker than expected.  This took forever to figure out.

Removing the assigned gamma in the image, while saving,
but using the assigned gamma while editing solved my problem.

So, to be clear on this suggestion, edit the image in the
gamma of your choice on the screen, remove the assigned
gamma from the image after editing, save the file without
the assigned gamma, and print the image file.

Try this and see if it works...


jim k






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"too dark" means you aren't focused on the print, you're focused on
the system. Saying "too dark" without quantifying, when you're trying
to quantify everything else, tells a tale.

You're determined to have an open-loop system, where the monitor
supposedly measures exactly like the print (using a technology that
supposedly measures both perfectly)...denying the inherent
impossibility, given the nature of monitor and paper (reflective Vs
transmitted). AND measurement isn't analagous to vision.

I've seen examples of allegedly "perfect" match between monitor and
print, where the allegations were obviously and absurdly false...in
other words, the technical people ("photographers") didn't have
well-trained eyes, and didn't believe the eyes that they did have, or
the observations of other viewers. 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "hanskaden"
<hans_mug@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everybody,
> 
> My Problem: The Prints from my Epson Stylus Pro 4000 are to dark -
> with a full calibrated MAC System. The problems are the deep/dark
colors.
> 
> The Past: I'm working with MAC OS X (10.4.7) and a calibrated monitor
> - with eye-one. I printed on Epson Paper with Epson ICC-Profiles. The
> Prints were fine, even if the colors are not perfect. The typical
> light magenta or cyan color problems thats all. But the levels (!!)
> were perfect!
> 
> Know I have bought "Hahnemühle/Hahnemuehle" fineart paper and the
> upgrade to eye-one-Photo to get the best results on the "best" paper. 
> 
> The last 3 days I have tested and calibrated and know I would like to
> say, that my prints are nearly perfekt. The color- and the
> black&white- prints are great and I was amazed about the perfect
> colors and the perfect grey-tones...but only if I talk about colors.
> Now the Prints are to dark.
> 
> After I have calibrated my system, there are major problems with the
> dark colors / gray-tones. You can see a example here:
> 
> Original-Picture: http://www.diekadens.de/wp-downloads/original.jpg
> Print (over a scanner, not calibrated):
> http://www.diekadens.de/wp-downloads/print.jpg
> 
> I have found many stories in the internt about "dark prints" with
> epson printers, but no resolution.
> 
> So what have I done to get a solution:
> 
> I have ...
> 
> ... calibrated my monitor and the the printer again - no effect.
> ... printed with the epson-icc-files on epson paper - the levels
were ok.

> ... downloaded the video-tutorial from Gretag to do the same workflow
> (step by step) to calibrate my system (printer) - no effect.
> ... printed over softproof (I have it seen on "luminous-landscape.com"
> and "computer-darkroom.com" - no effect (the same result).
> ... reinstalled photoshop, the mac printer subsystem and the drivers
> (the steps "delete/reset" Photoshop, the printerdrivers and the print
> subsystem are from Adobe) - no effect.
> 
> In the moment I'm pissed off - sorry for that words, but my invest
> seems to be a bad bargain.
> 
> I hope, there is someone here in this group who can help me.
> 
> Best Regards Hans
>

Hello Hans,

have you ever tried the ICC Profiles provided by Hahnem�hle for your
MAC/Paper/Printer combination?
These profiles are really good to start with.
Just an idea...

Greetings 
Gerd