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Digital BW, The Print

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R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-02 by bwbonkers

Hi Paul

Thank you for this trick. I have complained in previous posts that 
even though the BW prints using ABW mode and full colour ink set are 
very good, I always felt that I could see a little colour spoiling 
the neutrality of the print. I have just finished printing my first 
prints with EZW-4Y ink in the yellow cart and the results are 
fantastic. As soon as I printed a 100 greyscale file using the 
standard settings the difference was very obvious compared to the 
full colour ink set. With the full colour ink set I could see a very 
slight yellow/green hue but getting rid of the yellow ink has 
produced a very neutral greyscale.

I finally settled on H+05, V-05, best photo and paper set to premium 
glossy paper. Premium glossy gave a very slightly better Dmax than 
premium semi-glossy paper using Hahnemuhle FineArt Pearl. Dmax I get 
is 2.212 I'm using Roy's ICC program to profile paper/ink combo.

This is only my humble observations being a keen amateur. I am still 
learning but the prints on Hahemuhle paper are the best I have 
managed to achieve to date. I really like this paper. 

When using this trick do you print solely using the Epson ABW mode or 
is there any other approach you have found to tweak the results. I do 
have Roy's QTR and Bowhaus RIP both licenced but I'm getting very 
lazy, Epsons ABW mode is so easy to use.

Many thanks

Peter.

RE: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-02 by Paul Roark

Peter,

>... I have just finished printing my first prints with 
> EZW-4Y ink in the yellow cart and the results are 
> fantastic...

I was so impressed with the 2400 Y=Carbon approach that, as you can see from
other posts, I've switched my large format approach to the same basic
formula.  

>When using this trick do you print solely using the Epson ABW ...

Yes, a rip could do an even better job, but with more work.

>... but I'm getting very lazy, Epsons ABW mode is so easy to use.

Exactly. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-02 by edrudolpho

I've a couple of carts chipped to the yellow slot and loaded with MIS
LLK, but the ABW problem I'm seeing is more to do with magenta.  In
prints that have lots of light tones, such as a white wall, I can
clearly see a magenta wash through the light-toned area.  

Ed
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Peter,
> 
> >... I have just finished printing my first prints with 
> > EZW-4Y ink in the yellow cart and the results are 
> > fantastic...
> 
> I was so impressed with the 2400 Y=Carbon approach that, as you can
see from
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> other posts, I've switched my large format approach to the same basic
> formula.  
> 
> >When using this trick do you print solely using the Epson ABW ...
> 
> Yes, a rip could do an even better job, but with more work.
> 
> >... but I'm getting very lazy, Epsons ABW mode is so easy to use.
> 
> Exactly. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-07 by Steve Kale

Interesting.  Someone should pass this on to Epson.  I simple driver update
telling the driver to fire the LLK instead of the Y would achieve the same
result yet still leave the yellow in for colour.  But what happens to the
range of non-neutral ABW options?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: bwbonkers <PeterDLevis@...>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:43:04 -0000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

 
 
 

Hi Paul

Thank you for this trick. I have complained in previous posts that
even though the BW prints using ABW mode and full colour ink set are
very good, I always felt that I could see a little colour spoiling
the neutrality of the print. I have just finished printing my first
prints with EZW-4Y ink in the yellow cart and the results are
fantastic. As soon as I printed a 100 greyscale file using the
standard settings the difference was very obvious compared to the
full colour ink set. With the full colour ink set I could see a very
slight yellow/green hue but getting rid of the yellow ink has
produced a very neutral greyscale.

I finally settled on H+05, V-05, best photo and paper set to premium
glossy paper. Premium glossy gave a very slightly better Dmax than
premium semi-glossy paper using Hahnemuhle FineArt Pearl. Dmax I get
is 2.212 I'm using Roy's ICC program to profile paper/ink combo.

This is only my humble observations being a keen amateur. I am still
learning but the prints on Hahemuhle paper are the best I have
managed to achieve to date. I really like this paper.

When using this trick do you print solely using the Epson ABW mode or
is there any other approach you have found to tweak the results. I do
have Roy's QTR and Bowhaus RIP both licenced but I'm getting very
lazy, Epsons ABW mode is so easy to use.

Many thanks

Peter.

 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-07 by Carl Schofield

Beautiful warm tone prints with no metamerism.

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Oct 7, 2006, at 12:06 PM, Steve Kale wrote:

> Interesting.  Someone should pass this on to Epson.  I simple  
> driver update
> telling the driver to fire the LLK instead of the Y would achieve  
> the same
> result yet still leave the yellow in for colour.  But what happens  
> to the
> range of non-neutral ABW options?
>
>
>
> From: bwbonkers <PeterDLevis@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:43:04 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Paul
>
> Thank you for this trick. I have complained in previous posts that
> even though the BW prints using ABW mode and full colour ink set are
> very good, I always felt that I could see a little colour spoiling
> the neutrality of the print. I have just finished printing my first
> prints with EZW-4Y ink in the yellow cart and the results are
> fantastic. As soon as I printed a 100 greyscale file using the
> standard settings the difference was very obvious compared to the
> full colour ink set. With the full colour ink set I could see a very
> slight yellow/green hue but getting rid of the yellow ink has
> produced a very neutral greyscale.
>
> I finally settled on H+05, V-05, best photo and paper set to premium
> glossy paper. Premium glossy gave a very slightly better Dmax than
> premium semi-glossy paper using Hahnemuhle FineArt Pearl. Dmax I get
> is 2.212 I'm using Roy's ICC program to profile paper/ink combo.
>
> This is only my humble observations being a keen amateur. I am still
> learning but the prints on Hahemuhle paper are the best I have
> managed to achieve to date. I really like this paper.
>
> When using this trick do you print solely using the Epson ABW mode or
> is there any other approach you have found to tweak the results. I do
> have Roy's QTR and Bowhaus RIP both licenced but I'm getting very
> lazy, Epsons ABW mode is so easy to use.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Peter.

Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-08 by Manuel Toledo Quinones

Paul,

Regarding the use of MIS EZ Warm cartridge in the R2400 yellow
position, MIS website says that

"This eliminates all the Epson yellow ink from the print and reduces
the use of cyan and magenta as well. The prints look even better with
this set up, plus the fade resistance is extended out way beyond the
Epson inks."

If no new profle is used, why would the amount of Cyan & Mayenta be
reduced? 

Thanks,

Manuel

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Peter,
> 
> >... I have just finished printing my first prints with 
> > EZW-4Y ink in the yellow cart and the results are 
> > fantastic...
> 
> I was so impressed with the 2400 Y=Carbon approach that, as you can
see from
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> other posts, I've switched my large format approach to the same basic
> formula.  
> 
> >When using this trick do you print solely using the Epson ABW ...
> 
> Yes, a rip could do an even better job, but with more work.
> 
> >... but I'm getting very lazy, Epsons ABW mode is so easy to use.
> 
> Exactly. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

RE: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-08 by Paul Roark

Manuel,

 

The MIS perhaps should have been explicit that for a given print tone less
cyan and magenta pigments are used.  When there is yellow in the mix, that
yellow has to be offset with cyan and magenta to be neutral.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Manuel
Toledo Quinones
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:19 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

 

Paul,

Regarding the use of MIS EZ Warm cartridge in the R2400 yellow
position, MIS website says that

"This eliminates all the Epson yellow ink from the print and reduces
the use of cyan and magenta as well. The prints look even better with
this set up, plus the fade resistance is extended out way beyond the
Epson inks."

If no new profle is used, why would the amount of Cyan & Mayenta be
reduced? 

Thanks,

Manuel

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Peter,
> 
> >... I have just finished printing my first prints with 
> > EZW-4Y ink in the yellow cart and the results are 
> > fantastic...
> 
> I was so impressed with the 2400 Y=Carbon approach that, as you can
see from
> other posts, I've switched my large format approach to the same basic
> formula. 
> 
> >When using this trick do you print solely using the Epson ABW ...
> 
> Yes, a rip could do an even better job, but with more work.
> 
> >... but I'm getting very lazy, Epsons ABW mode is so easy to use.
> 
> Exactly. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-09 by Steve Kale

I think the point was that the Epson driver doesn¹t know the yellow has been
replaced and so continues to pump out cyan and magenta.  Or am I missing
something?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 13:56:52 -0700
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

 
 
 

Manuel,

The MIS perhaps should have been explicit that for a given print tone less
cyan and magenta pigments are used.  When there is yellow in the mix, that
yellow has to be offset with cyan and magenta to be neutral.

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>

_____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Manuel
Toledo Quinones
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:19 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

Paul,

Regarding the use of MIS EZ Warm cartridge in the R2400 yellow
position, MIS website says that

"This eliminates all the Epson yellow ink from the print and reduces
the use of cyan and magenta as well. The prints look even better with
this set up, plus the fade resistance is extended out way beyond the
Epson inks."

If no new profle is used, why would the amount of Cyan & Mayenta be
reduced? 

Thanks,

Manuel




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-09 by Manuel Toledo Quinones

I believe the idea is that, as Paul explains in his message, the
assumption is that you, the user, will modify the ABW parameters when
using the EZW cardridge. Since you are using the EZW-4Y instead of
yellow, your new parameter set will use less Cyan and Magenta because
there is less yellow to correct for. 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@...> wrote:
>
> I think the point was that the Epson driver doesn¹t know the yellow
has been
> replaced and so continues to pump out cyan and magenta.  Or am I missing
> something?
> 
> 
> 
> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 13:56:52 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position
> 
>  
>  
>  
> 
> Manuel,
> 
> The MIS perhaps should have been explicit that for a given print
tone less
> cyan and magenta pigments are used.  When there is yellow in the
mix, that
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> yellow has to be offset with cyan and magenta to be neutral.
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>
> 
> _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
> Manuel
> Toledo Quinones
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:19 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Regarding the use of MIS EZ Warm cartridge in the R2400 yellow
> position, MIS website says that
> 
> "This eliminates all the Epson yellow ink from the print and reduces
> the use of cyan and magenta as well. The prints look even better with
> this set up, plus the fade resistance is extended out way beyond the
> Epson inks."
> 
> If no new profle is used, why would the amount of Cyan & Mayenta be
> reduced? 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Manuel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-09 by Steve Kale

The driver does not know that you’ve changed the cartridge.  It will
therefore operate independently of the change.  So for any given print, the
Adv B&W driver will use the same amount of each ink cartridge as before,
including C, M, LC and LM.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Manuel Toledo Quinones <mtoledo@....edu>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:36:11 -0000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

 
 
 


I believe the idea is that, as Paul explains in his message, the
assumption is that you, the user, will modify the ABW parameters when
using the EZW cardridge. Since you are using the EZW-4Y instead of
yellow, your new parameter set will use less Cyan and Magenta because
there is less yellow to correct for.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Steve Kale
<stevekale@...> wrote:
>
> I think the point was that the Epson driver doesn¹t know the yellow
has been
> replaced and so continues to pump out cyan and magenta.  Or am I missing
> something?
> 
> 
> 
> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> >
> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 13:56:52 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> >
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position
> 
>  
>  
>  
> 
> Manuel,
> 
> The MIS perhaps should have been explicit that for a given print
tone less
> cyan and magenta pigments are used.  When there is yellow in the
mix, that
> yellow has to be offset with cyan and magenta to be neutral.
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>
> 
> _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
> Manuel
> Toledo Quinones
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:19 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Regarding the use of MIS EZ Warm cartridge in the R2400 yellow
> position, MIS website says that
> 
> "This eliminates all the Epson yellow ink from the print and reduces
> the use of cyan and magenta as well. The prints look even better with
> this set up, plus the fade resistance is extended out way beyond the
> Epson inks."
> 
> If no new profle is used, why would the amount of Cyan & Mayenta be
> reduced? 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Manuel



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

2006-10-09 by Paul Roark

Yes, I should have been more specific that for a given print tone, less cyan
and magenta (light versions) will be used.  The coordinates will change, and
the small sample image showing the tone will not be very useful to judge the
print tone.

 

I might add that with MIS EZ-W in the yellow spot the warm side of the ABW
range is restricted.  MIS LK and LLK help relative to the Epson versions.
But, you can print pure carbon only with an RGB approach, using a curve that
makes the print yellow on the monitor.  On Premier Art I am not able to get
a warm print out of the 2400 Y=EZW approach with the ABW mode.

 

While an RGB approach can take care of this problem, this approach is less
than ideal due to the yellow (now carbon) channel not having 2 midtone inks.
However, using a 1600 dpi RGB scan and the Photoshop Histogram’s Standard
Deviation as a measure, it might still be smoother than the ABW mode.
Whether this is true visually is questionable, but it looks very good.  See
http://home1.gte.net/res0a2zt/2400_RGB_Y=EZW.jpg 

 

It may be that a rip will be the preferred approach for the 2400 and B&W
purists who want the most lightfast and smooth prints possible but still
want the full color.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

  

 

  _____
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Manuel
Toledo Quinones
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 12:36 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position

 


I believe the idea is that, as Paul explains in his message, the
assumption is that you, the user, will modify the ABW parameters when
using the EZW cardridge. Since you are using the EZW-4Y instead of
yellow, your new parameter set will use less Cyan and Magenta because
there is less yellow to correct for. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@...> wrote:
>
> I think the point was that the Epson driver doesn¹t know the yellow
has been
> replaced and so continues to pump out cyan and magenta. Or am I missing
> something?
> 
> 
> 
> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 13:56:52 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manuel,
> 
> The MIS perhaps should have been explicit that for a given print
tone less
> cyan and magenta pigments are used. When there is yellow in the
mix, that
> yellow has to be offset with cyan and magenta to be neutral.
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroar <http://www.paulroark.com/> k.com/>
> 
> _____ 
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
> Manuel
> Toledo Quinones
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:19 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] R2400 MIS EZW-4Y ink in Yellow Position
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Regarding the use of MIS EZ Warm cartridge in the R2400 yellow
> position, MIS website says that
> 
> "This eliminates all the Epson yellow ink from the print and reduces
> the use of cyan and magenta as well. The prints look even better with
> this set up, plus the fade resistance is extended out way beyond the
> Epson inks."
> 
> If no new profle is used, why would the amount of Cyan & Mayenta be
> reduced? 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Manuel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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