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Dmax of K3 that low?

Dmax of K3 that low?

2006-12-04 by Igor Wesdorp

Hello.

I use to make prints  with UT-FS on Photo Rag. However, lately I
needed a large format print that I could not do myself at home, so I
had it printed by a print service with an Epson 9800 and K3 on
PhotoRag (300 gr this time. At home I use the 188 gr).

I'm not too pleased with the result: the UT-FS gives me a Dmax of ca
1.74. The K3 did only 1.64. Furthermore the graph of the K3 showed a
nasty bump in the shadows, it wasn't smooth.

(Btw, I'm sure they didn't accidentally make my prints with Photo
Black: I know what that looks like: even more muddy).

I'd like to know:

1. Is it normal for K3 to have such a low Dmax? (and a bump?)

2. Can it be that when switching from Photo Black (which they use
normally over there)to Matte black the printer wasn't purged (or not
well enough)? Or is this an automatic routine that always works out fine?

Thanks,

I g o r

Re: [Digital BW] Dmax of K3 that low?

2006-12-04 by Mark Savoia

It could be they just printed it badly.
Mark
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Dec 4, 2006, at 9:20 AM, Igor Wesdorp wrote:

> Hello.
>
> I use to make prints  with UT-FS on Photo Rag. However, lately I
> needed a large format print that I could not do myself at home, so I
> had it printed by a print service with an Epson 9800 and K3 on
> PhotoRag (300 gr this time. At home I use the 188 gr).
>
> I'm not too pleased with the result: the UT-FS gives me a Dmax of ca
> 1.74. The K3 did only 1.64. Furthermore the graph of the K3 showed a
> nasty bump in the shadows, it wasn't smooth.
>
> (Btw, I'm sure they didn't accidentally make my prints with Photo
> Black: I know what that looks like: even more muddy).
>
> I'd like to know:
>
> 1. Is it normal for K3 to have such a low Dmax? (and a bump?)
>
> 2. Can it be that when switching from Photo Black (which they use
> normally over there)to Matte black the printer wasn't purged (or not
> well enough)? Or is this an automatic routine that always works out  
> fine?
>
> Thanks,
>
> I g o r
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Dmax of K3 that low?

2006-12-04 by Clayton Jones

Hello Igor,

>I'm not too pleased with the result: the UT-FS gives me a Dmax of ca
>1.74. The K3 did only 1.64. Furthermore the graph of the K3 showed a
>nasty bump in the shadows, it wasn't smooth.
>
>1. Is it normal for K3 to have such a low Dmax? 

Re dmax, I remember when K3 first came out there were several
observations that it's dmax on HPR was slightly less than Eboni, but
on VFA it was slightly better than Eboni.  Maybe that's what you're
seeing.   

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Dmax of K3 that low?

2006-12-04 by Eric Neilsen

I would be more concerned by the bump than by the loss of dmax, but I would
suspect that it could be that they have their system tuned for the Photo
black, and not so well for MK. More importantly, what did they say?  Did you
run a small go by with them first? 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Dmax of K3 that low?

2006-12-04 by Ernst Dinkla

Igor,

Which company in the Netherlands could you persuade to change
black inks for one print ?

Did they use 1440 unidirectional. Use QTR to get the highest
inklimit + a linearisation. Or at least the best paper setting
with ABW to get it right. Use a RIP that does B&W nicely. A
profile to get tone range perceptually right ?

If they did that you could expect something that comes close
in Dmax and kept the tonal range correct. Very few will do
that here.


Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

Re: Dmax of K3 that low?

2006-12-04 by Igor Wesdorp

Enlighten me: what is VFA?

> I would suspect that it could be that they have their system tuned
for the Photo black, and not so well for MK.

Can that be? When you switch from Photo Black to Matte Black,does this
only involve changing carts, or do you also have to use other
settings? Can this have caused the " bump"? 


>what did they say?

Haven't contacted them yet. I wanted to figure it out first.


> Did you run a small go by with them first? 

Yes, this is the small run, just some samples I had them made.





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen"
<e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>
> I would be more concerned by the bump than by the loss of dmax, but
I would
> suspect that it could be that they have their system tuned for the Photo
> black, and not so well for MK. More importantly, what did they say?
 Did you
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> run a small go by with them first? 
> 
>  
> 
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 
> 4101 Commerce Street
> 
> Suite 9
> 
> Dallas, TX 75226
> 
> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> 
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> 
> Skype ejprinter
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] Dmax of K3 that low?

2006-12-04 by Igor Wesdorp

Ha Ernst,

> Which company in the Netherlands could you persuade to change black
inks for one print ?

Well, he wasn't too eager. I had to wait a week untill he was ready
with his Photo black-jobs.

I don't know the details of his printing workflow, alas. But thanks
for the tips: I'll keep them in case I'll use K3 in the future.

I g o r 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
<E.Dinkla@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> Igor,
> 
> Which company in the Netherlands could you persuade to change
> black inks for one print ?
> 
> Did they use 1440 unidirectional. Use QTR to get the highest
> inklimit + a linearisation. Or at least the best paper setting
> with ABW to get it right. Use a RIP that does B&W nicely. A
> profile to get tone range perceptually right ?
> 
> If they did that you could expect something that comes close
> in Dmax and kept the tonal range correct. Very few will do
> that here.
> 
> 
> Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> 
> 
> |  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
> |     www.pigment-print.com    |
> |             ( unvollendet )            |
>

Re: Dmax of K3 that low?

2006-12-04 by Tyler Boley

> 
> I'd like to know:
> 
> 1. Is it normal for K3 to have such a low Dmax?

yup, though the mentioned VFA reports higher with the K3s

> (and a bump?)

nope, there are a thousand ways that print could have been made on that setup, sounds like 
a linearization and /or profile problem.
> 
> 2. Can it be that when switching from Photo Black (which they use
> normally over there)to Matte black the printer wasn't purged (or not
> well enough)? Or is this an automatic routine that always works out fine?

since the dmax you report is normal, I doubt there was any problem with that routine, which 
is pretty "complete".
Tyler

Re: [Digital BW] Dmax of K3 that low?

2006-12-04 by Steve Kale

Sounds about right.  As you would expect, Epson have optimised their ink for
their own papers.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Igor Wesdorp <iwesdorp@...>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:20:32 -0000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] Dmax of K3 that low?

 
 
 

Hello.

I use to make prints  with UT-FS on Photo Rag. However, lately I
needed a large format print that I could not do myself at home, so I
had it printed by a print service with an Epson 9800 and K3 on
PhotoRag (300 gr this time. At home I use the 188 gr).

I'm not too pleased with the result: the UT-FS gives me a Dmax of ca
1.74. The K3 did only 1.64. Furthermore the graph of the K3 showed a
nasty bump in the shadows, it wasn't smooth.

(Btw, I'm sure they didn't accidentally make my prints with Photo
Black: I know what that looks like: even more muddy).

I'd like to know:

1. Is it normal for K3 to have such a low Dmax? (and a bump?)

2. Can it be that when switching from Photo Black (which they use
normally over there)to Matte black the printer wasn't purged (or not
well enough)? Or is this an automatic routine that always works out fine?

Thanks,

I g o r



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Dmax of K3 that low?

2006-12-04 by Eric Neilsen Photo

I have not put ANY photo black in my 4800 yet. I would however, expect to
redo my ABW settings for my prints based upon a different ink. AS in PK
would not be used on a water color paper. So, I suspect that your printer
has not fully set up for MK printing.  Igor, I'd also suggest that you run a
print on the PR 308 just to see how it looks. These are little things but
when you are looking at a sea of black ink, every little issue will start to
show up.

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Kale
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 3:17 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Dmax of K3 that low?

 

Sounds about right. As you would expect, Epson have optimised their ink for
their own papers.

From: Igor Wesdorp <iwesdorp@chello. <mailto:iwesdorp%40chello.nl> nl>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:20:32 -0000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] Dmax of K3 that low?

Hello.

I use to make prints with UT-FS on Photo Rag. However, lately I
needed a large format print that I could not do myself at home, so I
had it printed by a print service with an Epson 9800 and K3 on
PhotoRag (300 gr this time. At home I use the 188 gr).

I'm not too pleased with the result: the UT-FS gives me a Dmax of ca
1.74. The K3 did only 1.64. Furthermore the graph of the K3 showed a
nasty bump in the shadows, it wasn't smooth.

(Btw, I'm sure they didn't accidentally make my prints with Photo
Black: I know what that looks like: even more muddy).

I'd like to know:

1. Is it normal for K3 to have such a low Dmax? (and a bump?)

2. Can it be that when switching from Photo Black (which they use
normally over there)to Matte black the printer wasn't purged (or not
well enough)? Or is this an automatic routine that always works out fine?

Thanks,

I g o r

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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