Digital BW, The Print

I have just started printing B&W photos using either the Epson ABW
driver on my R2400 or simply converting RGB files to B&W using various
techniques, soft proofing in CS2 and using the canned ICC profiles
from the paper manufactures.  Now I would like to take the next step
and begin using a RIP software program.  My question is which one to
use?  I have downloaded the QTR and it does not provide much help in
terms of documentation (at least for me) so I have never used it.  I
have also seen the IJC/OPM website in which they seem to have a very
good beginners tutorial that was quite helpful but it is also a little
pricy.  I have also seen PFP 2.0 discussed on the forum.  Any
suggestions and/or help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

I havn't tried QTR yet, but it is something I have been considering 
for a while. Have you looked into the documentation at:
http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRdownload.html
This page has tutorials for both Mac and PC. I started to look into 
RIP's last spring and found the cost beyond my pocket book. QTR 
sounds like it is very well received and has a very good track 
record. When was the last time you updated it(updates are free)? 
There is also a Yahoo site you should check out!
Good luck!  




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "trrekrider" 
<trrekrider@...> wrote:
>
> I have just started printing B&W photos using either the Epson ABW
> driver on my R2400 or simply converting RGB files to B&W using 
various
> techniques, soft proofing in CS2 and using the canned ICC profiles
> from the paper manufactures.  Now I would like to take the next step
> and begin using a RIP software program.  My question is which one to
> use?  I have downloaded the QTR and it does not provide much help in
> terms of documentation (at least for me) so I have never used it.  I
> have also seen the IJC/OPM website in which they seem to have a very
> good beginners tutorial that was quite helpful but it is also a 
little

> pricy.  I have also seen PFP 2.0 discussed on the forum.  Any
> suggestions and/or help would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
>

I don't have an answer for you, but with any rip (or even to get the best
results from ABW) you'll want a spectro.  The one that comes with the PFP is
good.  I'm using it now instead of my X-Rite for most purposes.  It can't do
strip reading, but it's also less than half the price of those that can.

 

Once you have the PFP spectro and software, you'll want your 2400 profiled
with it in any case.   I use my 2400 for color output, profiled with the
PFP, and it's almost perfect - for color.  Frankly I don't use that printer
for B&W, but I'm sure it'd be fine - if you don't mind the excess of color
in the image.  I do, so I use other printers for B&W.  If I didn't have
other printers, needed color in the 2400, and still wanted B&W prints with
the least color, I'd use one of the rips you mentioned.  I'm not in a
position to compare the rips because IJC is the only one I know how to use.
(This will change in the not too distant future, I hope.)

 

As a first step after getting a spectro, you could make ICCs with QTR Create
ICC and use them to match the grayscale ramp of your monitor with the output
of ABW mode prints.  (I suppose you could also do tone soft proofing, but
I'm less impressed with that need for B&W.)  Create ICC + ABW makes a rather
nice workflow.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
trrekrider
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:29 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] which RIP program

 

I have just started printing B&W photos using either the Epson ABW
driver on my R2400 or simply converting RGB files to B&W using various
techniques, soft proofing in CS2 and using the canned ICC profiles
from the paper manufactures. Now I would like to take the next step
and begin using a RIP software program. My question is which one to
use? I have downloaded the QTR and it does not provide much help in
terms of documentation (at least for me) so I have never used it. I
have also seen the IJC/OPM website in which they seem to have a very
good beginners tutorial that was quite helpful but it is also a little
pricy. I have also seen PFP 2.0 discussed on the forum. Any
suggestions and/or help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Keith,

Thanks for the info.  I did look into the documentation that was included with the latest QTR version.  Like you I have been considering its use but will most likely wait until I have had the chance for an more in depth understanding.  I do not like to fix something that is not broke and for me printing with the ABW yeilds very nice results especially since I have started using the MIS LK, LLK and EZW inks suggessted by Paul Roark.  I know that there any many on this website that only use RIP's for their printing but they all have much more knowledge then I do at the present...I know I will eventually get there and I am in no hurry to get involved with somehting I do not completely understand at the present.

Good luck to you as well.

Jeff

"Keith R." <kjrslr@...> wrote:                                  I havn't tried QTR yet, but it is something I have been considering 
 for a while. Have you looked into the documentation at:
 http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRdownload.html
 This page has tutorials for both Mac and PC. I started to look into 
 RIP's last spring and found the cost beyond my pocket book. QTR 
 sounds like it is very well received and has a very good track 
 record. When was the last time you updated it(updates are free)? 
 There is also a Yahoo site you should check out!
 Good luck!  
 
 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "trrekrider" 
 <trrekrider@...> wrote:
 >
 > I have just started printing B&W photos using either the Epson ABW
 > driver on my R2400 or simply converting RGB files to B&W using 
 various
 > techniques, soft proofing in CS2 and using the canned ICC profiles
 > from the paper manufactures.  Now I would like to take the next step
 > and begin using a RIP software program.  My question is which one to
 > use?  I have downloaded the QTR and it does not provide much help in
 > terms of documentation (at least for me) so I have never used it.  I
 > have also seen the IJC/OPM website in which they seem to have a very
 > good beginners tutorial that was quite helpful but it is also a 
 little
 > pricy.  I have also seen PFP 2.0 discussed on the forum.  Any
 > suggestions and/or help would be appreciated.
 > 
 > Thanks,
 >
 
 
     
                       

 
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul,

Thanks for your input...as usual it is very helpful. I have been looking at the PFP spectro since I already have calibrated my monitor with their Spyder 2....I will most likely pick one up (after Christmas and college tution payments for two daughters) if there are any funds left over.  

Jeff

PS - After your suggestion I did try the MIS K4's LK, LLK and EZW...very nice improvement over the UC K3's...thanks.
 
Paul Roark <paul.roark@verizon.net> wrote:                                  I don't have an answer for you, but with any rip (or even to get the best
 results from ABW) you'll want a spectro.  The one that comes with the PFP is
 good.  I'm using it now instead of my X-Rite for most purposes.  It can't do
 strip reading, but it's also less than half the price of those that can.
 
 Once you have the PFP spectro and software, you'll want your 2400 profiled
 with it in any case.   I use my 2400 for color output, profiled with the
 PFP, and it's almost perfect - for color.  Frankly I don't use that printer
 for B&W, but I'm sure it'd be fine - if you don't mind the excess of color
 in the image.  I do, so I use other printers for B&W.  If I didn't have
 other printers, needed color in the 2400, and still wanted B&W prints with
 the least color, I'd use one of the rips you mentioned.  I'm not in a
 position to compare the rips because IJC is the only one I know how to use.
 (This will change in the not too distant future, I hope.)
 
 As a first step after getting a spectro, you could make ICCs with QTR Create
 ICC and use them to match the grayscale ramp of your monitor with the output
 of ABW mode prints.  (I suppose you could also do tone soft proofing, but
 I'm less impressed with that need for B&W.)  Create ICC + ABW makes a rather
 nice workflow.
 
 Paul
 
 www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
 
 _____  

 From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
 trrekrider
 Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:29 PM
 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Digital BW] which RIP program
 
 I have just started printing B&W photos using either the Epson ABW
 driver on my R2400 or simply converting RGB files to B&W using various
 techniques, soft proofing in CS2 and using the canned ICC profiles
 from the paper manufactures. Now I would like to take the next step
 and begin using a RIP software program. My question is which one to
 use? I have downloaded the QTR and it does not provide much help in
 terms of documentation (at least for me) so I have never used it. I
 have also seen the IJC/OPM website in which they seem to have a very
 good beginners tutorial that was quite helpful but it is also a little
 pricy. I have also seen PFP 2.0 discussed on the forum. Any
 suggestions and/or help would be appreciated.
 
 Thanks,
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
     
                       

 
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>... Like you I have been considering [QTR's] use but will 
> most likely wait until I have had the chance for an 
> more in depth understanding.

I'm there also.  Note that Roy is going to the Golden Trout Photo Workshop
this year.   (For Golden Trout workshop information, see
http://home1.gte.net/res0a2zt/GTthumbnails.html )

Note also that I'm trying to bring the dedicated B&W market to an "open
source" approach that, in effect, puts the Epson k3 approach onto most other
printers.  That way, what we learn on a 220, for example, will apply to the
2400 and most other Epson printers.  (The inks will also be
interchangeable.) I'll have a 220 at this Summer's Golden Trout workshop.
It's the "mule" printer, in more ways that one.  (For the open source ink
approach, see http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/4K+.pdf )  


>...  ABW yeilds very nice results especially since I have started 
> using the MIS LK, LLK and EZW inks suggessted by Paul Roark. 

That does give you the least amount of color and preserve the ABW mode
printing.  With the 2400, it's rather easy to just swap the yellow and EZ-W
carts as needed.  However, I'm guessing more people will want to use the
3800 with the yellow installed, because swapping large format carts is not
easy.  As such, going forward, I'm interested in being sure we have top
notch B&W workflows that utilize these machines with their intended ink
layouts.

So, I'm moving to a more unified approach that will make the skills that are
gained,  as well as the inks themselves that are used on a 220 approach
applicable to the 2400, 3800, as well as the 220, 1280 and virtually all
Epson hextone printers.  These are all much more alike than most realize,
and we can run the same inks in the entire group with a relatively unified
approach.  

There will, hopefully, be no reason to re-invent the wheel for each system.

I hope this allows us to go forward at the least cost not only in materials
but also in the time and energy needed to master our art.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hello Paul,

Thanks for the tip on the Golden Trout Photo Workshop...sounds great.  Is this the first week of July (1st through the 7th)?  You mentioned Roy will be there...could use some help with QTR.  I believe that this is the only week dedicated to photography?

Regards,
Jeff

Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:                                  >... Like you I have been considering [QTR's] use but will 
 > most likely wait until I have had the chance for an 
 > more in depth understanding.
 
 I'm there also.  Note that Roy is going to the Golden Trout Photo Workshop
 this year.   (For Golden Trout workshop information, see
 http://home1.gte.net/res0a2zt/GTthumbnails.html )
 
 Note also that I'm trying to bring the dedicated B&W market to an "open
 source" approach that, in effect, puts the Epson k3 approach onto most other
 printers.  That way, what we learn on a 220, for example, will apply to the
 2400 and most other Epson printers.  (The inks will also be
 interchangeable.) I'll have a 220 at this Summer's Golden Trout workshop.
 It's the "mule" printer, in more ways that one.  (For the open source ink
 approach, see http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/4K+.pdf )  
 
 >...  ABW yeilds very nice results especially since I have started 
 > using the MIS LK, LLK and EZW inks suggessted by Paul Roark. 
 
 That does give you the least amount of color and preserve the ABW mode
 printing.  With the 2400, it's rather easy to just swap the yellow and EZ-W
 carts as needed.  However, I'm guessing more people will want to use the
 3800 with the yellow installed, because swapping large format carts is not
 easy.  As such, going forward, I'm interested in being sure we have top
 notch B&W workflows that utilize these machines with their intended ink
 layouts.
 
 So, I'm moving to a more unified approach that will make the skills that are
 gained,  as well as the inks themselves that are used on a 220 approach
 applicable to the 2400, 3800, as well as the 220, 1280 and virtually all
 Epson hextone printers.  These are all much more alike than most realize,
 and we can run the same inks in the entire group with a relatively unified
 approach.  
 
 There will, hopefully, be no reason to re-invent the wheel for each system.
 
 I hope this allows us to go forward at the least cost not only in materials
 but also in the time and energy needed to master our art.
 
 Paul
 www.PaulRoark.com 
 
 
     
                       

 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeff,

>Thanks for the tip on the Golden Trout Photo Workshop...sounds great.

It is if you're into things like High Sierra wilderness.  It's mostly a
shooting workshop, with the ability to ask a number of experienced people
questions of all sorts.

> Is this the first week of July (1st through the 7th)?

Yes, that is the only session that is dedicated to photography.

> You mentioned Roy will be there...could use some help with QTR.

Yes, and I'll bring in a printer and inks.

Hope you can make it to the workshop.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

_________________


Paul Roark <paul.roark@...t> wrote: >... Like you I have been
considering [QTR's] use but will 
> most likely wait until I have had the chance for an 
> more in depth understanding.

I'm there also. Note that Roy is going to the Golden Trout Photo Workshop
this year. (For Golden Trout workshop information, see
http://home1.gte.net/res0a2zt/GTthumbnails.html  )

Note also that I'm trying to bring the dedicated B&W market to an "open
source" approach that, in effect, puts the Epson k3 approach onto most other
printers. That way, what we learn on a 220, for example, will apply to the
2400 and most other Epson printers. (The inks will also be
interchangeable.) I'll have a 220 at this Summer's Golden Trout workshop.
It's the "mule" printer, in more ways that one. (For the open source ink
approach, see http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/4K+.pdf ) 

>... ABW yeilds very nice results especially since I have started 
> using the MIS LK, LLK and EZW inks suggessted by Paul Roark. 

That does give you the least amount of color and preserve the ABW mode
printing. With the 2400, it's rather easy to just swap the yellow and EZ-W
carts as needed. However, I'm guessing more people will want to use the
3800 with the yellow installed, because swapping large format carts is not
easy. As such, going forward, I'm interested in being sure we have top
notch B&W workflows that utilize these machines with their intended ink
layouts.

So, I'm moving to a more unified approach that will make the skills that are
gained, as well as the inks themselves that are used on a 220 approach
applicable to the 2400, 3800, as well as the 220, 1280 and virtually all
Epson hextone printers. These are all much more alike than most realize,
and we can run the same inks in the entire group with a relatively unified
approach. 

There will, hopefully, be no reason to re-invent the wheel for each system.

I hope this allows us to go forward at the least cost not only in materials
but also in the time and energy needed to master our art.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





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