Digital BW, The Print

For those interested, here is a forum that has dissected the Claria 
carts. It's in Russian so you better break out bablefish.

http://www.resetters.ru/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=2&t=5060&st=20

Yahoo will mangle this link, so you can also find it here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=21540911

Greg,

 

I'm inclined to explore the idea of avoiding Epson patents completely.  To
do this, I'd use large format dampers to connect the ink from a CFS to the
printer.  The chip would be an Epson OEM chip and an empty Epson cart,
modified to make room for the damper and with a resistor put in to replicate
a full cart, would hold the chip in place.  I think it might be worth
exploring this approach just in case Epson actually succeeds in wiping out
the third party cart business.  If the chips can be recycles and fooled into
telling the printer there is ink in the "car", it might just work.

 

I doubt I'd do this myself, but I suspect those who make CFS types of
products might want to follow up on this rather obvious approach to the
problem. 

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 6:20 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Claria carts dissected

 

For those interested, here is a forum that has dissected the Claria 
carts. It's in Russian so you better break out bablefish.

http://www.resetter
<http://www.resetters.ru/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=2&t=5060&st=20>
s.ru/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=2&t=5060&st=20

Yahoo will mangle this link, so you can also find it here:
http://forums.
<http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=21540911>
dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=21540911

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul, (and any other interested people)

We are almost to the point of looking for a different hack, and this
one is much more difficult, but would open up many more options. It is
also beyond my ability, but I know the day is coming....


The day the printer firmware is hacked!


This may be the last method available to us to use our third party
devices and inks. This is a difficult thing to do because Epson makes
the MCU in their printers, and as far as I know they do not sell it to
anyone else. So data sheets and code is not available.

But your idea is feasable if that's really how the final ink sensor
works, it could be something else and not resistive at all, could be
capacitive, or less likely inductive. The idea of using something
similar to the large format dampers would be the same thing that Ink
Republic did, so that design is already there.

Greg wrote:

> The day the printer firmware is hacked!

Thought about that too after Paul's message.

A lot of machines get a hack to use them for other purposes.
Game machines, pda's, mobile phones, cameras.

> This may be the last method available to us to use our third party
> devices and inks. This is a difficult thing to do because Epson makes
> the MCU in their printers, and as far as I know they do not sell it to
> anyone else. So data sheets and code is not available.

They buy their drivers from an English company as far as I
know. The differences between the pro machines and the
consumer models that have less computing done on the printer
itself may reveal something. The firmware upgrades for the pro
models are on the net.

> But your idea is feasable if that's really how the final ink sensor
> works, it could be something else and not resistive at all, could be
> capacitive, or less likely inductive. The idea of using something
> similar to the large format dampers would be the same thing that Ink
> Republic did, so that design is already there.

Worst case would be that it does measure on the ink contacts
and when the cart is empty brings a short circuit current to
melt the seal tight. Enough wax like polyethylenes that need
very little heating. Would be a novelty. There have been chips
that were destroyed with a short circuit.
If Epson really prevents refilling and doesn't offer a
convincing recycling system on the European market they get a
problem here.


Met vriendelijke groeten,  Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

From “Seiko Epson Sustainability Report 2006”

Fulfilling our responsibilities as a manufacturer, Epson will
provide information to affiliated recycling traders to utilize the
mechanisms put in place in each country. In the future, Epson’s
European sales companies will take the initiative for these
activities, together with the monitoring of legal developments
and industrial associations.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ernst
Dinkla
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:10 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Claria carts dissected

If Epson really prevents refilling and doesn't offer a
convincing recycling system on the European market they get a
problem here.

Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John Moody wrote:
>>From \ufffdSeiko Epson Sustainability Report 2006\ufffd
> 
> Fulfilling our responsibilities as a manufacturer, Epson will
> provide information to affiliated recycling traders to utilize the
> mechanisms put in place in each country. In the future, Epson\ufffds
> European sales companies will take the initiative for these
> activities, together with the monitoring of legal developments
> and industrial associations.

Right, if that is convincing enough to Bruxelles you will see 
even more refill preventions appear on inkjet carts in Europe. 
There has been a huge misunderstanding that in Europe consumer 
protection is better organised. The grass may be greener here 
but for the rest ..........

I have been reading some legal issues about chipped carts and 
import tax at European borders.  Whether chipped carts can be 
considered being a printer part or a consumable. A 
demonstration in front of a committee that shows a printer not 
starting up when the last chipped cart isn't inserted. 
Conclusion: it is part of the printer so a 0% import tax 
instead of 6% import tax should be applied. That level of 
legislation is happening.

Met vriendelijke groeten,Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

John Moody wrote:
>>From \ufffdSeiko Epson Sustainability Report 2006\ufffd
> 
> Fulfilling our responsibilities as a manufacturer, Epson will
> provide information to affiliated recycling traders to utilize the
> mechanisms put in place in each country. In the future, Epson\ufffds
> European sales companies will take the initiative for these
> activities, together with the monitoring of legal developments
> and industrial associations.

Seems the first Claria cart compatibles are already available:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=21615256




Met vriendelijke groeten,Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@...> wrote:
>
> John Moody wrote:
> >>From "Seiko Epson Sustainability Report 2006"
> > 
> > Fulfilling our responsibilities as a manufacturer, Epson will
> > provide information to affiliated recycling traders to utilize the
> > mechanisms put in place in each country. In the future, Epson's
> > European sales companies will take the initiative for these
> > activities, together with the monitoring of legal developments
> > and industrial associations.
> 
> Seems the first Claria cart compatibles are already available:
> 
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=21615256
> 


Saw that too. I knew it wouldn't take too long to reverse those carts. 
The big question is did they step on any Epson patents to do this? G&G 
has purchased carts in the past that were on the hit list, they were 
named in the last Epson "conflict" if I remember correctly.

> Seems the first Claria cart compatibles are already available:
> 
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=21615256

Yes, Bob L. noticed them Tuesday.

MIS also reports that both carts and chips are starting to flow, and from
some of their better suppliers.  They're concerned a bit about a pattern
from the Chinese manufacturers in the past of sending excellent samples at
first and then second rate production runs.  So, they are going to try and
look carefully at the quality of the products.

>... The big question is did they step on any Epson patents to do this?

I would assume that the Epson actions have at least caused the manufacturers
to be a bit more careful.  On the other hand, maybe they just don't care and
don't believe Epson will ever be able to seal off the country from these
imports.

I wonder if the comment in the dpreview article about apparent high ink
usage is due to the carts having voids in them (as shown in the Russian
dissections) that makes the actual ink capacity far less than apparent
("slack packing" is an old consumer protection issue -- see
http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fpla/fplact.html ) or due to actual higher
ink flows.  It would appear that whatever the cause, this will raise the
demand for third party, competitive ink sources.  Epson may be a bit
overconfident due to its legal actions and unique ink formula.  I'm hoping
for a backlash, myself.  If anyone sees a cost per page comparison, that
might be useful.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com