Digital BW, The Print

Hello all:
I having problems printing on EEM Paper, now called Epson Ultra 
Premium Presentation Paper Matte (now that's a mouthful). No matter 
which printing method I try with my Epson R2400 or 4800 printers, 
with K3 inks(MK), I get blochy, shiny pooling of ink in the dark 
values mostly but also seen in the midtone values. I know these 
printers kick out a lot of ink and need some limiting but no matter 
how much I limit the ink, to the pont of losing significant Dmax, the 
shiny spots are still present in some values. No problem getting a 
nice scale range or a rich black, it's just this blochy shine that I 
find annoying, though you really have to tilt the print the right way 
to see it. I have tried ABW, QTR, Custom BW profiling. Nothing works. 
I print in a temp/RH controlled room. My other regular papers HPR, 
Innova Smth Ctn, Innova Fiba Matte, Epson Velvet (which has the same 
coating I think), even Epson Matte Hvywt all print beautifully. 

I know many folks have good results with this paper, and it would be 
nice to have something for cheap proofing or non critical work. Am I 
doing something wrong in my approach? Is this just the way this paper 
looks with K3? It seems Epson Matte Hvywt, though designed for 
dyes,is the best "cheap" choice (that I've tried). Any other good 
inexpensive matte proofing papers that print well with K3? Thanks.
Lou Meluso

No replies to my original post about having difficulty getting prints 
on EEM (K3 MK)without shiny surface artifacts up the gray scale to 
the midtones. I was looking for an alternative paper for proofing. 
However soon after my post I found a similar thread on the Epson wide 
format that I pasted below in case anyone is interested. Since, I 
have secured some samples of the Red River Polar Matte. WOW! Great 
dmax (much better than the Epson HyWt Matte I was using)and ink 
laydown was like velvet-smooth and dead matte all the way to 100%. No 
shiny bloches. Its a very cool tone paper and acid free. A plus was 
that it was a very close match to HPR with only a very slight curve 
needed. It cost a bit more than the paper I was using but the prints 
had me smiling again. I got some Sparrowhawk coming I'll let you know 
how it fares.
Lou

The list from the replies looks like this;
> Red River Polar Matte
> Harman Matte
> Entrada 300
> Sparrowhawk
> Moab Kayenta
> Lexjet Premium Archival White
>
> Any ideas as to which would would be the closest replacement for 
EEM (that
> an opinionated
> client might easily accept)?
>
> Thanks for the feedback
>
>
>

I find the Inkpress Photo Rag papers best, and they're not pricey. 
Comes in
Cool and Warm, different weights, 190, 250. Same profiles on my 
PrintFixPro v2.

Lou,

I noted you said EEM one place and Heavy Wt Matt another.  HWM is for 
dye inks and EEM for pigs.  Wonder if you were printing on HWM when 
you noted the shiney surface?

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lou4photo" 
<lmeluso@...> wrote:
>
> No replies to my original post about having difficulty getting 
prints 
> on EEM (K3 MK)without shiny surface artifacts up the gray scale to 
> the midtones. I was looking for an alternative paper for proofing. 
> However soon after my post I found a similar thread on the Epson 
wide 
> format that I pasted below in case anyone is interested. Since, I 
> have secured some samples of the Red River Polar Matte. WOW! Great 
> dmax (much better than the Epson HyWt Matte I was using)and ink 
> laydown was like velvet-smooth and dead matte all the way to 100%. 
No 
> shiny bloches. Its a very cool tone paper and acid free. A plus was 
> that it was a very close match to HPR with only a very slight curve 
> needed. It cost a bit more than the paper I was using but the 
prints 
> had me smiling again. I got some Sparrowhawk coming I'll let you 
know 

> how it fares.
> Lou
> 
> The list from the replies looks like this;
> > Red River Polar Matte
> > Harman Matte
> > Entrada 300
> > Sparrowhawk
> > Moab Kayenta
> > Lexjet Premium Archival White
> >
> > Any ideas as to which would would be the closest replacement for 
> EEM (that
> > an opinionated
> > client might easily accept)?
> >
> > Thanks for the feedback
> >
> >
> >
> 
> I find the Inkpress Photo Rag papers best, and they're not pricey. 
> Comes in
> Cool and Warm, different weights, 190, 250. Same profiles on my 
> PrintFixPro v2.
>

At 07:09 AM Wednesday 1/24/2007, you wrote:
>I noted you said EEM one place and Heavy Wt Matt another. HWM is for 
>dye inks and EEM for pigs. Wonder if you were printing on HWM when 
>you noted the shiney surface?

The Epson info I've seen says that HWM is for *all* inks. I've found it pretty much the same as EEM with Ultrachromes. But slightly less yellowing.

Richard

--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/ (Recent work) 

   "To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing."
   --Elbert Hubbard

Hi Paul:
I was using HvyWtMatte for proofing because of its low cost and I 
obtained clean results even though the Dmax was not stellar. No matter 
which approach or adjustments I tried, on two different printers (4800 
and R2400),I simply could not make a print on EEM without the shiny 
artifacts though the prints themselves looked fine tonally - not over 
inked. My regular fine art papers, HPR, Innova Smth Ctn, Epson VFA all 
print up nicely. Frankly, the performance of the RR Polar paper is what 
I expected from EEM but didn't get using Epson K3 inks(MK). Yet I have 
read here that many folks have success with it. Oh well.
Lou 
 
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bwinkjet" 
<bwinkjet@...> wrote:

>
> Lou,
> 
> I noted you said EEM one place and Heavy Wt Matt another.  HWM is for 
> dye inks and EEM for pigs.  Wonder if you were printing on HWM when 
> you noted the shiney surface?
> 
> Paul
>

Hi Lou,

Interesting.  I am not sure why you are getting disappointing results.  
I use EEM as proofing paper with K2 and K3 inks (2200 and 3800) and 
have had excellent results (no shiney artifacts).  Sorry I am not able 
to help.

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lou4photo" 
<lmeluso@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul:
> I was using HvyWtMatte for proofing because of its low cost and I 
> obtained clean results even though the Dmax was not stellar. No 
matter 
> which approach or adjustments I tried, on two different printers 
(4800 
> and R2400),I simply could not make a print on EEM without the shiny 
> artifacts though the prints themselves looked fine tonally - not over 
> inked. My regular fine art papers, HPR, Innova Smth Ctn, Epson VFA 
all 
> print up nicely.

EEM is less attractive as a proofing paper than Polar Matte. Why? I have yet
to see any yellowing on any sheet that I have used. 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bwinkjet
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:55 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Problems with EEM (EUPPPM)

 

Hi Lou,

Interesting. I am not sure why you are getting disappointing results. 
I use EEM as proofing paper with K2 and K3 inks (2200 and 3800) and 
have had excellent results (no shiney artifacts). Sorry I am not able 
to help.

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lou4photo" 
<lmeluso@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul:
> I was using HvyWtMatte for proofing because of its low cost and I 
> obtained clean results even though the Dmax was not stellar. No 
matter 
> which approach or adjustments I tried, on two different printers 
(4800 
> and R2400),I simply could not make a print on EEM without the shiny 
> artifacts though the prints themselves looked fine tonally - not over 
> inked. My regular fine art papers, HPR, Innova Smth Ctn, Epson VFA 
all 
> print up nicely. 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 01:26 PM Wednesday 1/24/2007, you wrote:
>EEM is less attractive as a proofing paper than Polar Matte. Why? I have yet
>to see any yellowing on any sheet that I have used. 

I must say that I, too, have had mottled shadows invariably EEM. And *always* yellowing in a couple of weeks.

Richard  
--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/ (Recent work) 

   "The fight is what's important. Doing what is good 
   and right is why we're here. The end is variable and 
   relative. A person can only do what his heart tells him 
   and break away from the terrible things around him.  
   We do what we can ... and live with the consequences.
   --Marc Zanoni

That shiny business is exactly what I get.  I mentioned it to a friend
who said he didn't get it, but when I showed it to him he realized he
did in fact have it. 

On most prints I have to angle the print to the light to see it.  It
shows up the most if there are large black areas.  I talked to the
dealer who is also a repair service and they claimed not to know what
I was talking about.  I like the prints I get with the paper and
haven't seen yellowing in a year, but the shiny business is annoying.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lou4photo"
<lmeluso@...> wrote:

>
> No replies to my original post about having difficulty getting prints 
> on EEM (K3 MK)without shiny surface artifacts up the gray scale to 
> the midtones. I was looking for an alternative paper for proofing. 
> However soon after my post I found a similar thread on the Epson wide 
> format that I pasted below in case anyone is interested. Since, I 
> have secured some samples of the Red River Polar Matte. WOW! Great 
> dmax (much better than the Epson HyWt Matte I was using)and ink 
> laydown was like velvet-smooth and dead matte all the way to 100%. No 
> shiny bloches. Its a very cool tone paper and acid free. A plus was 
> that it was a very close match to HPR with only a very slight curve 
> needed. It cost a bit more than the paper I was using but the prints 
> had me smiling again. I got some Sparrowhawk coming I'll let you know 
> how it fares.
> Lou
> 
> The list from the replies looks like this;
> > Red River Polar Matte
> > Harman Matte
> > Entrada 300
> > Sparrowhawk
> > Moab Kayenta
> > Lexjet Premium Archival White
> >
> > Any ideas as to which would would be the closest replacement for 
> EEM (that
> > an opinionated
> > client might easily accept)?
> >
> > Thanks for the feedback
> >
> >
> >
> 
> I find the Inkpress Photo Rag papers best, and they're not pricey. 
> Comes in
> Cool and Warm, different weights, 190, 250. Same profiles on my 
> PrintFixPro v2.
>