Digital BW, The Print

Peter,

>I'm just starting to experiment with my new Epson
>1160/VM/Mac/Photoshop 5 setup. ...so far I've
>found that there are "inkjet dots" ... at the higher
>end of the wedge, ...

Some people do see some dots in the highlights.  If you only see them in the
"nc" and "cool" tone prints, they are probably the toner.

In actual prints at normal viewing distance (Kodak uses 14 inches in its
grain evaluation system), most are not aware of the dots.

The hextone printers do print smoother, however, with the MIS VM system.

>So my question is this, ultimately: What can I do differently so
>that my prints are "dotless" in the brighter areas?

If the dots are the toner, it will probably be difficult to improve the
situation with that printer.  If the dots are the cyan ink (which starts
just after 25%), then there is room for more light gray ink to be poured in
before the cyan is added.  I've just never had the incentive to do more with
those curves.

Of interest, the new VM-Sepia-Neutral inkset uses no toner for the neutral
end of its spectrum.  As such, the 5% patch on my 1160 with that inkset and
the Epson driver actually measured as smoother than Piezo.  (Piezo had a
slight edge is other highlight areas, however.)  The difference appears to
be the lack of toner and ink tone contrast.

As to tonal separation, it depends on where you're looking.  The curve is
relatively linear.  However, there is only so much dynamic range on a piece
of paper.  Basically you have the paper white and the depth of black.  On
the 1160 the Epson driver puts down a deeper black than Piezo, so there is
more tonal range with the Epson driver.  However, the total dynamic range of
paper is very limited.  Utilizing that limited range to make a print with
impact is a lot of what good printing is all about.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

In a message dated 01/25/2002 2:22:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
wander.lust@... writes:


> So my question is this, ultimately: What can I do differently so 
> that my prints are "dotless" in the brighter areas?
Peter,
Plan on fighting with the dots.1280 users seem the happiest! Seems a skilled 
curve writer can move them(dots) around(clean the hightlights pretty good) 
but they are there! I never was a advocate at looking at prints with a loupe, 
but it is very helpful in seeing whats going on. Get clean hightlights? Then 
the 30-40% can get a little coarse. You might be surprised at what this 
little fight might cost you.
My, answer! Use the Piezo driver With MIS FS inks. Thats what piezo is about, 
dotless prints no matter what.
Steve M.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Peter, I just wanted to say a few things off list. I don't want to get in any 
battles with Paul. Any RGB epson driver method is going to have dots. Yes it 
is possible to get clean highlights(invisable to the naked eye) highlights. 
With the varible mix inkset of pauls you may very well have mixed results. 
You might be in for a lot of work. The types of images paul and Jerry print 
may very well be different than yours and they can't see them. But hey if you 
can't see them fine then your ready to go. My stuff features very light 
backgrounds 40-0% Even though I was able to get very nice looking prints(and 
sold many of these) the dots were there comming in about 30% Decieded not to 
waste my time with anymore. Now I use the Piezo pro 24 on my 7000 With MIS FS 
inks and all I have to worry about is the the file I'am working on. 
Hey I see your in Seattle! I have 27 7000 prints up for exhibit Opening next 
Fri, At the Photographic Center Northwest on capital Hill. Its alterantive 
photography mostly 16x20''s.
Maybe your pickier than some of the others who say they don't have dots. 
Saying you have to view the image at 14inches is an old excuse used by 3000 
users before piezo came along.
Steven Meyers
http://www.xray-art.com
In a message dated 01/25/2002 2:22:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
wander.lust@... writes:


> Paul and others --
> 
> Some questions and comparisons from a novice:
> 
> I'm just starting to experiement with my new Epson 
> 1160/VM/Mac/Photoshop 5 setup. I've made a few test prints, 
> printed a couple of step wedges and Tyler's Zees, and so far I've 
> found that there are "inkjet dots" (for lack of a better term) 
> apparent in my prints at the higher end of the wedge, while the 
> test (staircase) print sent me by the Piezo folks have none 
> visible.
> 
> Using the neutral-cool (nc4) VM curve, I'm getting visible dots at 
> 20% and above on the 21stepwide8bit.jpg scale and 15% and 
> higher on the 21stepNew.jpg scale. I'm printing on Epson 
> Archival Matte paper, and I've tried turning the high-speed setting 
> off in the Epson printer driver. Also, I've tried setting the gamma 
> to 2.2 instead of 1.8 in the sRGB settings in Photoshop.
> 
> The Piezo sample, in contrast, which is printed on Somerset 
> Enhanced paper, does not have inkjet dots visible in the brighter 
> range. It was printed on an Epson 3000, however. (Also, there is 
> some dottiness in the middle part of the wedge, but I think that 
> looks more like it could be because of absorption problems.)
> 
> So my question is this, ultimately: What can I do differently so 
> that my prints are "dotless" in the brighter areas?
> 
> I've also noticed (on the Tyler's Zees image) that I am getting far, 
> far less tonal separation on paper than I am on screen. (Also a 
> lot of visible dots in the bottom row, especially the bottom right 
> square.)
> 
> I'd appreciate any help.
> 
> Thanks,
> Peter
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry, My previous post was meant to go privately to Peter in Seattle.
Let me just clarify where I'm coming from. Just so lurkers don't get the 
wrong Idea.
Many get the impression that the MIS inks And Epson printers are plug and 
print equal to Piezo Quality. The 1280 is totally a different class printer 
than the 1160, 3000, or even the 7000. The 1280 With Epson driver produces 
stunning results with a variety of methods. Many of the 1160 users(most) on 
this list, have purchased or have previous experience with the piezo system. 
Comparisons usually refer to Tonal separation and blacks. Since the newest 
generation of printers (1280 class) has come out, the dot thing has taken a 
back seat. Setting at a table across from a gallery curator is tough enough 
trying to sell ink, and even tougher if there are visible dots.
My opinion is that the 7000, 3000, and many 1160s benefit greatly from what 
the piezo driver can do. Now ink and print tone? That's another story..
Don't get me wrong, I am All for what Paul is doing, I just need an 
additional printer(4th) to dedicate to variable ink.
Steven M.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]