Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message ----- 

  From: jamesmsims 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 3:09 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] So, how do we market/sell our beautiful digital prints?

  >James wrote::
  >Some galleries tell me that all though 'we know' this is 
  >extraordinary work, John Q Public hears digital and thinks 'Heck, my 
  >son can do this with his Fuji digital camera and the HP printer we 
  >bought him for Christmas'.  Regardless if it is true, we have to face 
  >this obstacle, if it really exists. 
   
  I do not want to be percieved as confrontational but would like to voice my opinion about this part of the post.
  The person who says "my son can do that at home" is usually not the type of person who would buy your exceptional work anyway.
  That person would be the same guy who won't go to a bar with his friends because he has the "Same drinks" at home that won't cost him as much.(CHEAP). Anyone who has actually tried their hand at any form of art will (or should be) be a better judge of your work reguardless of how its printed. I read somewhere about an artist who prices his work by how popular the piece becomes -- the first print might be $50.00 the second one sold $75.00 etc.etc until people stop buying it. This peaked my interest because it allows the quality of the piece (not the substrate or ink or paints used)to actually dictate price. Maybe your work is worthy of being in a museum or just an Arts & Wine festival. Maybe we should put our collective brain trust to the task of creating our own market place somehow.
  Remember--- It's not WHAT you market, It's HOW you market it !!!!!
  Look at these examples
  Pet Rock (you know you have one in the garage somewhere)
  Cheea pet
  ENRON
  Bill Clinton
  George W
  Thanks for listening
  Don
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Many, possibly the majority of photographers are exhibiting digital
inkjet prints now, so it's only the galleries that don't want to come
into the new century that are holding back, just as they have always
done. Perhaps you want to try art galleries instead of photo galleries.
It shouldn't make a damn bit of difference what media you use to make a
fine art print. A digital print isn't and cannot every be a darkroom
print. It will never be mistaken for one. Most think digital is better.
I certainly know it's better. There are a lot of people out there making
inkjet prints now, but most of them are nowhere near fine art quality,
just like any other media. It takes a few years to be able to turn out
consistantly good fine art prints, and lots of experimentation of papers
and inks. It isn't nearly as hard today as it was 6 or 7 years ago. A
lot of the hard work has been done. The epson 1280, 5500, 7000, 7500,
9000, etc printers are capable of surpassing Iris prints in quality.
There are now a few archival inksets that are tested to over a hundred
years. (MIS Archival, and Generations Microbrite Pigments come to mind).

Good Luck

> Recently.... I am faced with wide array of objection to these prints
> as fine art.  Some people agree that the resolution and tonal range
> are divine, still, it is not 'a photograph', pe

They will never look EXACTLY like a photographic darkroom print. Why on
earth should they?

Thus, I am having
> difficulty getting into galleries, exhibits, or shows, nor can I
> obtain representation by dealers.

Try some more progressive galleries.
> 
> Hey, if people were telling me that my images were the issue: blah,
> unrefined, lacking composition, flat, downright boring, so on and so
> on, then I would understand that I need to do more work before
> attempting to market and sell my work.  On the contrary, I get a lot
> of excitement, but, still, there is a limited market.

All the photo studios in our town are now shooting portraits digitally.
I think most studios in the country are doing so, or will be doing so
soon. There of course will ALWAYS be those who will never change.
 
> So, are you having the same experience, or do I need to wake up and
> smell the coffee?  What do you suggest?

I sell at 4 galleries in town, and on my website, and nobody has ever
refused to buy one because it was digitally produced. 

John Q Public hears digital and thinks 'Heck, my
> son can do this with his Fuji digital camera and the HP printer we
> bought him for Christmas'.  

And Elephants at the San Diego Zoo are painting abstracts and people are
buying them. Some art critics have even praised them highly before they
knew an elephant painted it.

I am beginning to think that I
> may have to surrender to the wet darkroom, argh!  

Most are going from the wet darkroom to digital.


> now live in the country (read septic) and building a darkroom will
> present plenty of challenges and cost, plus, I don't want to be in
> the darkroom.
> 
> Lastly, I find a slightly higher awareness and acceptance to IRIS
> prints, even though the tools most of us are using (i.e., PiezoBW)
> surpass IRIS.
> 
> So, tell me that you are having other experiences, more promising and
> positive one, and give me some guidance.  I would really appreciate
> it. 

There is a lot of competition out there, especially on the web. I have
yet to meet anyone who is making a living just selling fine art prints
on the web. Too many photographers with good pictures!
> 

Cheers!

Jerry

I'm going to stick my  nose in here just a bit--I don't sell my photography but I have been a professional artist/craftsperson for a number of years--selling through quite heavily juried national shows (ex.-Philadelphia Museum of Art  Show). 

 Right now I feel there is a def. descrimination against digitally produced prints--but education will eventually make the difference.  Part of it is 'snobbism'--its what we face with 'fine' art vs. craft all the time--to some degree what photography faced not so long ago.  I subscribe to Black and White--the magazine that is focused on b/w and collectors of the same--and I read the same type of letters monthly--'don't let digital creep into the magazine';, its not 'real' photography', etc.  I'm not sure how that will be overcome in the short term, but I have no doubts about the long term.  The photographers that came before us educated collectors about the 'art' of printing.  There is still a feeling of lack of archivability with many collectors--and also the 'art' of the printing (you have to remember the ages of the major collectors--they can't imagine that if computers are involved, how can it be 'art').  Galleries cater to their collectors--until you can change their opinions (the collectors), then dealing with galleries will be difficult.  

Diane
----------
Diane B. Fields
picnic@...
photo site    http://www.pbase.com/picnic

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jerry Olson 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 9:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] So, how do we market/sell our beautiful digital prints?


  Many, possibly the majority of photographers are exhibiting digital
  inkjet prints now, so it's only the galleries that don't want to come
  into the new century that are holding back, just as they have always
  done. Perhaps you want to try art galleries instead of photo galleries.
  It shouldn't make a damn bit of difference what media you use to make a
  fine art print. A digital print isn't and cannot every be a darkroom
  print. It will never be mistaken for one. Most think digital is better.
  I certainly know it's better. There are a lot of people out there making
  inkjet prints now, but most of them are nowhere near fine art quality,
  just like any other media. It takes a few years to be able to turn out
  consistantly good fine art prints, and lots of experimentation of papers
  and inks. It isn't nearly as hard today as it was 6 or 7 years ago. A
  lot of the hard work has been done. The epson 1280, 5500, 7000, 7500,
  9000, etc printers are capable of surpassing Iris prints in quality.
  There are now a few archival inksets that are tested to over a hundred
  years. (MIS Archival, and Generations Microbrite Pigments come to mind).

  Good Luck



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]