Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 3/5/2007 9:09:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
dazedgonebye@... writes:

Cool!  Now I need you to be rich for me... :-) 
The R2400is out  of my reach at the moment.
I'm going to end up with a refurb'd R1800 and  buy a black and white 
ink set for it in the next few months.

--- In  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David Keenan"  
<ausdlk@...> wrote:
>
> >Can't someone just be smart  for me? ;-)
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Get an Epson R2400 or 3800  and print using the printer's ABW mode.
> 
> The results are  great.
> 
> Some purists will gripe about the permanence and the  fact that 
there is a
> little bit of color ink used to balance the  tonality but you simply 
cannot
> beat this system for ease of  use.
> 
> The Epson inks are not cheap, of course.
>  
> But, all-in-all, if you want a method to make b&w prints with  
minimal fuss
> and mystery, then I don't know how you could do  better then this.
> 
> Dave.



You'd do better to wait as long as you have to and follow Dave's advice.  
There are 2400's being sold on eBay that you can reach for. The difference is  
huge! An R1800 is in a different and really obsolete category for printing B/W. 
 
Richard (Brooklyn)
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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CorrPro96@... wrote:
...
> You'd do better to wait as long as you have to and follow Dave's
advice.  
> There are 2400's being sold on eBay that you can reach for. The
difference is  
> huge! An R1800 is in a different and really obsolete category for
printing B/W. 


Richard, he's after a dedicated B&W printer, so has some great options
with the 1800. K7 sets and there must be some MIS options as well. He
also mentioned split toning. You could pop carts out back and forth
from different K7 sets for various splits on the fly. Very cool, I was
thinking of an 1800 refurb to play with this very thing myself.
With that many slots there are probably some variable tone MIS sets
that can do splits as well, just a guess.
2400 would be a good OEM approach, but that's not what he initially
indicated he was after, then he'd need PFP or something to split with
well.
Tyler

In a message dated 3/5/2007 10:09:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
tyler@... writes:

Richard,  he's after a dedicated B&W printer, so has some great options
with the  1800. K7 sets and there must be some MIS options as well. He
also mentioned  split toning. You could pop carts out back and forth
from different K7 sets  for various splits on the fly. Very cool, I was
thinking of an 1800 refurb  to play with this very thing myself.
With that many slots there are  probably some variable tone MIS sets
that can do splits as well, just a  guess.
2400 would be a good OEM approach, but that's not what he  initially
indicated he was after, then he'd need PFP or something to split  with
well.
Tyler




I will agree with all you say... for you and me. 
But for a newbie who is trying to minimize his costs and doesn't want to  
drive high speed into a learning curve? I've got an R800 that I keep just to  
play exactly the games you describe. I've already spent more than the machine is  
worth on inksets. Same with my 2 2200's. Just burned through a Split K7 set. 
If he wants to get into B/W with a minimum of aftercosts and learning  
effort.... I still say go for the 2400 and ABW.
 
Richard (Brooklyn)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK, let's try today, just once, to get it right on this list for someone who came here for 
advice... little did he know.

He asked about dedicated ink sets for an 1800 refurb-
A 2400 with OEM inks is not an 1800 with dedicated inks, no matter how late it is.

He is interested in split toning-
ABW will NOT do split toning. Period.

Therefore a 2400 and ABW can not be considered a viable recommendation for him, it will 
not do what he wants, nor is what he owns or says he can afford.

Right?

Right?

Additionally, he never said he is ...a newbie who is trying to minimize his costs and 
doesn't want to drive high speed into a learning curve... with a minimum of aftercosts and 
learning effort.

Again, I sincerely hope he gathers information from a number of sources outside this list.

OK, it's probably me... I'll see about getting put down for the night.
Tyler

In a message dated 3/5/07 7:52:04 PM, dazedgonebye@... writes:


> I'm reading/posting on the piezography board.  I'll check out the
> quadtone now.
> 
> If it helps any, i've about decided on a refurbished R1800
> 

Starting by reading the Piezography and QuadTone boards, and purchasing an 
R1800 is about like starting your search for a car by checking with local 
greasemonkeys about what cars they like to rebuild, and buying a car without an 
engine in it: you've pretty well determined that you're going to be getting under 
the hood and building your own system (there's really no way to print good B&W 
with an R1800 without all of that). If you purchased a printer that can do 
good B&W with the OEM inks, (by having at least two shades of gray) and that 
supports using these grays for printing neutral components (as drivers of such 
printers do), then you'd have a wide range of options (including being able to 
print B&W, tinted B&W, and color from the same printer), many of which would 
not require building a custom combination of third party inks, third party RIPs, 
and special channel curves. So go there if playing around under the hood is 
what you want to do, but be aware that you are heading in a direction that will 
require that. Lots of great black and white prints are being produced these 
days without going that route, and without getting ink under your 
fingernails...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


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In a message dated 3/5/07 9:09:24 PM, dazedgonebye@... writes:


> Cool!  Now I need you to be rich for me... :-)
> The R2400is out of my reach at the moment.
> 

Fair enough, and true of my "old car" analogy as well... lots of those guys 
working on old cars aren't just doing it because they like to, they are doing 
it because they can't afford a new car. If a 2400 is our of your reach, there 
are few quality B&W options available to you that don't require hacking 
something... <G>

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision.com
www.colorvision.com


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In a message dated 3/6/07 1:10:26 AM, tyler@... writes:


> OK, let's try today, just once, to get it right on this list for someone 
> who came here for
> advice... little did he know.
> 
I doubt you'll ever get agreement and concensus from this list, but thats 
okay...
> 
> He asked about dedicated ink sets for an 1800 refurb-
> A 2400 with OEM inks is not an 1800 with dedicated inks, no matter how late 
> it is.
> 
Actually, as I recall, he came looking for a B&W solution, the R1800 etc. 
came later, after the "RIP it yourself" fans had spent some time advising him...
> 
> He is interested in split toning-
> ABW will NOT do split toning. Period.
> 
No, but the R2400 will do gorgeous split-toning, with little effort, and full 
preview, and color prints on the same machine... I do it all the time with 
the 2400, the 3800 etc... just not via AWB.
> 
> Therefore a 2400 and ABW can not be considered a viable recommendation for 
> him, it will
> not do what he wants, nor is what he owns or says he can afford.
> 
The only part of that which rings true is that it may not be what he can 
currently afford. But if he gets a printer for B&W, Tinted B&W, Color, and all 
without the learning curve of RIP-based systems, it might well be worth saving 
for. Just one more divergent opinion! <G>


C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


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On 3/6/07 7:58 AM, "CDTobie@..." <CDTobie@...> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> In a message dated 3/5/07 9:09:24 PM, dazedgonebye@...
> <mailto:dazedgonebye%40gmail.com>  writes:
> 
>> > Cool!  Now I need you to be rich for me... :-)
>> > The R2400is out of my reach at the moment.
>> > 
> 
> Fair enough, and true of my "old car" analogy as well... lots of those guys
> working on old cars aren't just doing it because they like to, they are doing
> it because they can't afford a new car. If a 2400 is our of your reach, there
> are few quality B&W options available to you that don't require hacking
> something... <G>
> 
> Epson has refurbed R2400s for $599 on their website from time to time. Check
> the clearance center tab. I purchased a refurbed 2200 from them 2 years ago
> and have had no problems whatsoever with the machine.
> 
> -Holly



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In a message dated 3/6/07 3:42:04 PM, dazedgonebye@... writes:


> 
> So I guess one important question is;
> Are piezo carts swapable in the way they say they are?
> 
Yes, pretty much. The question you should be more concerned about is: are 
Piezo inks good for printing on gloss surfaces?

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm probably confused again.  I thought that piezo inks were not 
capbable of gloss output.
I read something on the piezo board saying that they are working on 
it.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... 
wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 3/6/07 3:42:04 PM, dazedgonebye@... writes:
> 
> 
> > 
> > So I guess one important question is;
> > Are piezo carts swapable in the way they say they are?
> > 
> Yes, pretty much. The question you should be more concerned about 
is: are 

> Piezo inks good for printing on gloss surfaces?
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Division
> DataColor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
> 
> 
> **************************************
>  AOL now offers free 
> email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at 
> http://www.aol.com.
> 
> 
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>