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Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-23 by Clayton Jones

Hello All,

Recently I tested some PremierArt Matte BW with K3 ink to compare with
other papers and was quite surprised by the result.  MBW paper is very
similar to Kayenta, a popular paper (smooth, bright white, cool toned,
2-sided, alpha cellulose, 210 gsm, relatively inexpensive).  Well, MBW
blows Kayenta out of the water in dmax and over all clarity and depth.  

It's dmax is remarkable, close to VFA, the highest I've tested so far.
VFA is first (the clear winner), followed by PR, MBW and Innova Photo
Fiba in a toss-up for 2nd place (and probably the other Innova matte
papers as well).  Then there's a significant gap to the others [in
descending dmax order]: Museo Max, Condor BW, Kayenta, Aurora Art,
Merlin Natural and Entrada). 

Note: These results are for Epson K3 inks only.  MBW may be equally
better with other inks as well, but I can't say for sure.  Sometimes
the dmax rating is different with different inks.  For example, with
Eboni (the black ink in most MIS ink sets) PR beats VFA in dmax, and
while Kayenta and some of the others are top notch with Eboni, they
are just so-so with K3.  

If K3 users are looking for a paper of this type, look no further,
it's no contest - it's right up there with the big guys.   

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: [Digital BW] Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-23 by amadou diallo

A couple of years ago I tried some sheets of the PremiereArt Hot
Press, and while the Dmax with the Cone inks was relatively low, their
coating held a very very tight dot, providing excellent image
sharpness. The Innova papers hold a tight dot as well, compared to the
Hahnemühle lineup. I find that on images with lots of fine detail and
selective focus a tighter dot can give a greater sense of depth or
dimensionality.
-- 
amadou diallo
Author, Mastering Digital Black and White
www.masteringdigitalbwbook.com

Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-23 by djon43

I'm looking forward to trying it, not incidentally because it's even
cheaper than Kayenta :-) 

Various non-cotton papers will inevitably come to be preferred by many
for better ability to maintain bright white. 

Presumably the impending uncoated photo papers will be non-cotton as
well, good news for everybody as prices will certainly plummet. 

My main quibble with Kayenta is in smaller prints where the faint
directional-grainy surface becomes obvious .. not distracting at 11X17
and at least it avoids the drugstore-look of "pearl."  




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hello All,
> 
> Recently I tested some PremierArt Matte BW with K3 ink to compare with
> other papers and was quite surprised by the result.

RE: [Digital BW] Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-23 by Paul Roark

Hi Clayton,

>Recently I tested some PremierArt Matte BW with K3 ink to 
>compare with other papers and was quite surprised by the result. ...

>It's dmax is remarkable, close to VFA, the highest I've 
>tested so far.  VFA is first (the clear winner), followed 
>by PR, MBW ...

It depends on printer, black ink, and driver, among other things.  Oddly, my
220 recently started giving me a low dmax with the Epson driver, but with
QTR I'm hitting 1.7 again with MatteBW. 

See http://www.premierimagingproducts.com/pm_mattebw.php for information.

For the best sheet prices see,
http://www.itsupplies.com/cgi-bin/itsupplies.storefront/462cd1d80b9b1f22273f
4200c14c0646/Catalog/1623
They call is 210 Dual Sided Matte.  It has also been known as "Premium" or
"Premier" matte.

Try to fine another smooth, high dmax, acid-free, non-flaking paper for
$0.30 per square foot.

(With Eboni BO it produces an almost perfect neutral midtone.  However, I'm
not a fan of the roughness BO often results in.  I have my first 260 empty
carts and hope that the 1.5 pl dot will allow me to make a true pure carbon
printing system that is neutral and smooth -- but that's not here yet.)

The main things I don't like about Matte BW ("MBW") are that it's very
bright, and the sheets have a curl.

For the brightness, I either print down the borders to match the matte board
(2% yellow or carbon) and/or I use a split tone approach.  (See
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/PM_Split_Tone.pdf  QTR will be able to do
split toning easily with it's sliders and the profiles I'm now making for
MBW.)

For the curl, I print on the convex side (to avoid edge strikes) and often
use a ruler to put a slight reverse curl on the top 1/8 inch of the paper.
Just hold the top 1/8" of the sheet down with a ruler and pull the paper up
at a 45 degree angle.  That allows the paper to feed easily.  I do hand fee
each sheet.  (It's not EEM with respect to ease of feeding.)

By the way, I've found what may be EEM's highest and best use.  To keep the
printer rollers clean, I spray a bit of Ace Hardware Janitor Strength
Ammonia on the right edge, middle of an EEM sheet (keep the lead edge dry)
and feed it through the printer several times -- both sides, etc.  It cleans
those rollers very well and helps feed issues tremendously.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-23 by Paul Roark

>Various non-cotton papers will inevitably come to be preferred 
>by many for better ability to maintain bright white. 

Why would non-cotton papers be brighter?

Premier Art claims to be using titanium white for some if not all of its
papers.  I have not fade tested the MBW to see how it does in the yellowing
department.  

>Presumably the impending uncoated photo papers will be 
>non-cotton as well, ...

I have not heard of these.  Do you have more information?  

Thanks,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-23 by Sergei Antonov

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
I have my first 260 empty carts and hope that the 1.5 pl dot will allow 
me to make a true pure carbon printing system that is neutral and 
smooth -- but that's not here yet.)
>

Hi Paul,

Do you mean refillable 3rd party carts for 260? Do you have chip 
resetter too?

Thanks,
Sergei

Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-23 by dlruckus

Hi Clayton. I've been using the paper for some time now. While I don't
have a K3 machine, I have used it with an old 3000 and a 1200 and a
7000 utilizing the old Mis DDK, Mis VMK and Eboni inks at various
times. It has always given stellar results in D'max, routinely giving
1.7 and better for me. In one case when I used QTR to underprint VMK
with a touch of cyan in a sort of dual BO mode, it approached nearly
1.8 for me. The only quarrel I might have with it is that it can look
slightly grayed next to a warmer paper in low uv lighting.

Regards
Duane
 



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hello All,
> 
> Recently I tested some PremierArt Matte BW with K3 ink to compare with
> other papers and was quite surprised by the result.  
> 
> Note: These results are for Epson K3 inks only.  MBW may be equally
> better with other inks as well, but I can't say for sure.  Sometimes
> the dmax rating is different with different inks.  For example, with
> Eboni (the black ink in most MIS ink sets) PR beats VFA in dmax, and
> while Kayenta and some of the others are top notch with Eboni, they
> are just so-so with K3.  
> 
> If K3 users are looking for a paper of this type, look no further,
> it's no contest - it's right up there with the big guys.   
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

RE: [Digital BW] Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-23 by Paul Roark

Hi Sergei,

 

So far all I have are empty 3rd party 260 carts, with chips installed - no
resetter yet.  (In fact, no printer yet.)

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sergei
Antonov
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 10:37 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
I have my first 260 empty carts and hope that the 1.5 pl dot will allow 
me to make a true pure carbon printing system that is neutral and 
smooth -- but that's not here yet.)
>

Hi Paul,

Do you mean refillable 3rd party carts for 260? Do you have chip 
resetter too?

Thanks,
Sergei

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-23 by Bob Michaels

Clayton: Could this the same paper that Atlex.com calls "Permier Art
Smooth Fine Art"? I've used some of the single sided 270 and have come
to like it. Especially for the price. 

The differential in names amongst the suppliers seems to be really
confusing. 

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hello All,
> 
> Recently I tested some PremierArt Matte BW with K3 ink to compare with
> other papers and was quite surprised by the result.  MBW paper is very
> similar to Kayenta, a popular paper (smooth, bright white, cool toned,
> 2-sided, alpha cellulose, 210 gsm, relatively inexpensive).  Well, MBW
> blows Kayenta out of the water in dmax and over all clarity and depth.  
> 
> It's dmax is remarkable, close to VFA, the highest I've tested so far.
> VFA is first (the clear winner), followed by PR, MBW and Innova Photo
> Fiba in a toss-up for 2nd place (and probably the other Innova matte
> papers as well).  Then there's a significant gap to the others [in
> descending dmax order]: Museo Max, Condor BW, Kayenta, Aurora Art,
> Merlin Natural and Entrada). 
> 
> Note: These results are for Epson K3 inks only.  MBW may be equally
> better with other inks as well, but I can't say for sure.  Sometimes
> the dmax rating is different with different inks.  For example, with
> Eboni (the black ink in most MIS ink sets) PR beats VFA in dmax, and
> while Kayenta and some of the others are top notch with Eboni, they
> are just so-so with K3.  
> 
> If K3 users are looking for a paper of this type, look no further,
> it's no contest - it's right up there with the big guys.   
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-24 by john eckenrode

Bob
Matte BW is different-it has brighteners, it is alpha
cellulose, it is two sided and comes in two weights:
110 gsm and 210gsm.
Smooth fine art-has the option of brighteners or
natural, it is cotton, it comes in four weights
205gsm, 270, 325 and 500. 205 and 325 are double
sided, 270 and 500 single.
These are my standard papers, so I finally figured out
all the varieties. The Smooth FA 270 is my color paper
for almost everything, I use it for B/W when I want a
really smooth surface.
Right On
John E

--- Bob Michaels <bob@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Clayton: Could this the same paper that Atlex.com
> calls "Permier Art
> Smooth Fine Art"? I've used some of the single sided
> 270 and have come
> to like it. Especially for the price. 
> 
> The differential in names amongst the suppliers
> seems to be really
> confusing. 
> 
> Bob Michaels
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "Clayton Jones"
> <cj@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> > 
> > Recently I tested some PremierArt Matte BW with K3
> ink to compare with
> > other papers and was quite surprised by the
> result.  MBW paper is very
> > similar to Kayenta, a popular paper (smooth,
> bright white, cool toned,
> > 2-sided, alpha cellulose, 210 gsm, relatively
> inexpensive).  Well, MBW
> > blows Kayenta out of the water in dmax and over
> all clarity and depth.  
> > 
> > It's dmax is remarkable, close to VFA, the highest
> I've tested so far.
> > VFA is first (the clear winner), followed by PR,
> MBW and Innova Photo
> > Fiba in a toss-up for 2nd place (and probably the
> other Innova matte
> > papers as well).  Then there's a significant gap
> to the others [in
> > descending dmax order]: Museo Max, Condor BW,
> Kayenta, Aurora Art,
> > Merlin Natural and Entrada). 
> > 
> > Note: These results are for Epson K3 inks only. 
> MBW may be equally
> > better with other inks as well, but I can't say
> for sure.  Sometimes
> > the dmax rating is different with different inks. 
> For example, with
> > Eboni (the black ink in most MIS ink sets) PR
> beats VFA in dmax, and
> > while Kayenta and some of the others are top notch
> with Eboni, they
> > are just so-so with K3.  
> > 
> > If K3 users are looking for a paper of this type,
> look no further,
> > it's no contest - it's right up there with the big
> guys.   
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Clayton
> > 
> > 
> > Info on black and white digital printing at    
> > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> >
> 
> 
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-24 by Paul Roark

"Smooth" is the new Premier Art name for "Hot Press."  The "Fine Art" seems
to imply a cotton base.  The Matte BW - under "Art" as opposed to "Fine Art"
paper - is alpha cellulose, but still acid free, good paper.  See how they
have them categorized at http://www.premierimagingproducts.com/ under the
"Media" heading.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Michaels
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:53 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

 

Clayton: Could this the same paper that Atlex.com calls "Permier Art
Smooth Fine Art"? I've used some of the single sided 270 and have come
to like it. Especially for the price. 

The differential in names amongst the suppliers seems to be really
confusing. 

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> 
> Recently I tested some PremierArt Matte BW with K3 ink to compare with
> other papers and was quite surprised by the result. MBW paper is very
> similar to Kayenta, a popular paper (smooth, bright white, cool toned,
> 2-sided, alpha cellulose, 210 gsm, relatively inexpensive). Well, MBW
> blows Kayenta out of the water in dmax and over all clarity and depth. 
> 
> It's dmax is remarkable, close to VFA, the highest I've tested so far.
> VFA is first (the clear winner), followed by PR, MBW and Innova Photo
> Fiba in a toss-up for 2nd place (and probably the other Innova matte
> papers as well). Then there's a significant gap to the others [in
> descending dmax order]: Museo Max, Condor BW, Kayenta, Aurora Art,
> Merlin Natural and Entrada). 
> 
> Note: These results are for Epson K3 inks only. MBW may be equally
> better with other inks as well, but I can't say for sure. Sometimes
> the dmax rating is different with different inks. For example, with
> Eboni (the black ink in most MIS ink sets) PR beats VFA in dmax, and
> while Kayenta and some of the others are top notch with Eboni, they
> are just so-so with K3. 
> 
> If K3 users are looking for a paper of this type, look no further,
> it's no contest - it's right up there with the big guys. 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at 
> http://www.cjcom. <http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm>
net/digiprnarts.htm
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-24 by Clayton Jones

Hello Amadou,

>A couple of years ago I tried some sheets of the PremiereArt Hot
>Press, and while the Dmax with the Cone inks was relatively low,
>their coating held a very very tight dot, providing excellent image
>sharpness. The Innova papers hold a tight dot as well, compared to 
>the Hahnemühle lineup. I find that on images with lots of fine 
>detail and selective focus a tighter dot can give a greater sense of 
>depth or dimensionality.

I'm always amazed how different papers can be in this impression of
depth.  VFA is outstanding in this regard.  VFA also has some texture
and is not a hard surface, but somehow manages to retain very fine
detail.  It's biggest problem is a tendency to flake (and it's
expensive).  I put up with it because it's so good looking and nothing
else (that I've tried so far) beats it visually (with K3).

I tried PA Hot Press when I was using primarily MIS inks and was
impressed with everything except dmax.  If it wasn't for that I would
have used it.  I haven't tried it with K3 ink, I guess because I
haven't heard that it's any better and don't want to spend money to
find out.

So I was really surprised by the dmax of MBW.  I wish whatever is
producing the dmax there could be transferred to a warmer paper.  If
Hot Press had that dmax....now that would be a winner.

I still have hope that my dream matte paper will arrive some day: the
beauty and feel of VFA with the dmax of SR and physical durability and
non-flakiness of Museo Max.  I'm not asking too much am I?


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

RE: [Digital BW] Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-24 by Paul Roark

Hi Clayton,

>...
>I tried PA Hot Press when I was using primarily MIS inks 
>and was impressed with everything except dmax. ...

> I wish whatever is producing the dmax [with MBW]
> could be transferred to a warmer paper. 

The new PA Fine Art Smooth (Hot Press) 325 seems to have a version of the
new coating.  One post here suggested the 270 does also and is easier to
load. 

> If Hot Press had that dmax....now that would be a winner.

The 325 is a winner.  I can load it in the 220, 2200, and 2400 with a gentle
shove (and when the rollers are clean).  The C88 absolutely refused to take
it.  We're using it in the museum projects -- very nice stuff. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-29 by Keith Zimmerman

I just picked up some matte paper that was labeled Premier Matte.  It
did not specify Matte BW on the label.  Instead, it was labeled
Premier Matte.  I cross-checked the specifications from the Premier
site and it matches the 210gsm exactly.  Was the Matte BW known
previously by this name?

Clayton, what characteristics did you find with this paper?  I have
been looking for a BW paper for some cool tone images and have been
dissatisfied with what I have tested so far.  I print on a 2400 with
the K3 inkset and am very pleased with my prints.

Thanks for any info you can share.

keithz


 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hello All,
> 
> Recently I tested some PremierArt Matte BW with K3 ink to compare with
> other papers and was quite surprised by the result.  MBW paper is very
> similar to Kayenta, a popular paper (smooth, bright white, cool toned,
> 2-sided, alpha cellulose, 210 gsm, relatively inexpensive).  Well, MBW
> blows Kayenta out of the water in dmax and over all clarity and depth.  
> 
> It's dmax is remarkable, close to VFA, the highest I've tested so far.
> VFA is first (the clear winner), followed by PR, MBW and Innova Photo
> Fiba in a toss-up for 2nd place (and probably the other Innova matte
> papers as well).  Then there's a significant gap to the others [in
> descending dmax order]: Museo Max, Condor BW, Kayenta, Aurora Art,
> Merlin Natural and Entrada). 
> 
> Note: These results are for Epson K3 inks only.  MBW may be equally
> better with other inks as well, but I can't say for sure.  Sometimes
> the dmax rating is different with different inks.  For example, with
> Eboni (the black ink in most MIS ink sets) PR beats VFA in dmax, and
> while Kayenta and some of the others are top notch with Eboni, they
> are just so-so with K3.  
> 
> If K3 users are looking for a paper of this type, look no further,
> it's no contest - it's right up there with the big guys.   
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-04-30 by Clayton Jones

Hello Keith,

>I just picked up some matte paper that was labeled Premier Matte.  It
>did not specify Matte BW on the label.  Instead, it was labeled
>Premier Matte.  I cross-checked the specifications from the Premier
>site and it matches the 210gsm exactly.  Was the Matte BW known
>previously by this name?

Sorry, I don't know for sure, but the names seem interchangeable.  One
of the greater mysteries in this business is figuring out Premier
Art's paper names.



>Clayton, what characteristics did you find with this paper?  

Well, pretty much what I listed in my original post:  smooth, bright
white, cool toned, 2-sided, alpha cellulose, 210 gsm, relatively
inexpensive, top-notch dmax.  


>I have been looking for a BW paper for some cool tone images and 
>have been dissatisfied with what I have tested so far.  I print 
>on a 2400 with the K3 inkset and am very pleased with my prints.

"Cool tone" is relative, of course, when using a variable tone ink
system.  Basically it means a given K ink will be rendered cooler on
this paper than one of the commonly used warmer tone papers which make
up the majority of matte papers.  So an ABW setting that is moderately
warm on VFA might look neutral on this paper.

One of the problems with using a cooler ABW setting on a paper that
has a warm paper color is that the highlights will look warm and won't
match the darker zones.  So most cool tone papers tend to have a
whiter base color and often have BW in the name.  You can pretty much
count on any "BW" paper being cool toned, although they vary in degree.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-05-02 by jrschwaller

Clayton...

You've got me interested in Matte BW, but none of the suppliers 
pointed to on the Premier Imaging site seems to carry it.  Where can 
it be obtained?  

Thanks, john

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Keith,
> 
> >I just picked up some matte paper that was labeled Premier Matte.  
It
> >did not specify Matte BW on the label.  Instead, it was labeled
> >Premier Matte.  I cross-checked the specifications from the Premier
> >site and it matches the 210gsm exactly.  Was the Matte BW known
> >previously by this name?
> 
> Sorry, I don't know for sure, but the names seem interchangeable.  
One
> of the greater mysteries in this business is figuring out Premier
> Art's paper names.
> 
> 
> 
> >Clayton, what characteristics did you find with this paper?  
> 
> Well, pretty much what I listed in my original post:  smooth, bright
> white, cool toned, 2-sided, alpha cellulose, 210 gsm, relatively
> inexpensive, top-notch dmax.  
> 
> 
> >I have been looking for a BW paper for some cool tone images and 
> >have been dissatisfied with what I have tested so far.  I print 
> >on a 2400 with the K3 inkset and am very pleased with my prints.
> 
> "Cool tone" is relative, of course, when using a variable tone ink
> system.  Basically it means a given K ink will be rendered cooler on
> this paper than one of the commonly used warmer tone papers which 
make
> up the majority of matte papers.  So an ABW setting that is 
moderately
> warm on VFA might look neutral on this paper.
> 
> One of the problems with using a cooler ABW setting on a paper that
> has a warm paper color is that the highlights will look warm and 
won't
> match the darker zones.  So most cool tone papers tend to have a
> whiter base color and often have BW in the name.  You can pretty 
much
> count on any "BW" paper being cool toned, although they vary in 
degree.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-05-02 by Richard Smallfield

At 04:06 PM Wednesday 5/2/2007, you wrote:
>none of the suppliers 
>pointed to on the Premier Imaging site seems to carry it. Where can 
>it be obtained? 

IT Supplies have it and, although their website does not suggest it, they do ship overseas.

It must be the best buy in paper at the moment.

Good luck,
Richard 
--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/ (Recent work) 

  'Nature can be like a lover who gently touches your shoulder
  and says, "It's alright."'
  --George Meegan, 'The Longest Walk'

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

2007-05-02 by Paul Roark

www.ITSupplies.com <http://www.itsupplies.com/>  calls Premier Imaging
"Matte BW" by another name.  It's the 210 weight, double sided matte paper.
The "Matte BW" is a relatively new name for the paper.  Follow the Premier
Imaging paper path on the left side of IT Supplies' home page.  The dual
sided matte with a 210 weight (alpha cellulose) paper is right below the
"Hot Press" (cotton) paper on the next page.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Smallfield
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 12:24 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Matte BW vs Kayenta for K3

 

At 04:06 PM Wednesday 5/2/2007, you wrote:
>none of the suppliers 
>pointed to on the Premier Imaging site seems to carry it. Where can 
>it be obtained? 

IT Supplies have it and, although their website does not suggest it, they do
ship overseas.

It must be the best buy in paper at the moment.

Good luck,
Richard 
--
http://smallfield. <http://smallfield.vze.com> vze.com
http://photos. <http://photos.smallfield.vze.com> smallfield.vze.com (Photos
web site)
http://warkworth. <http://warkworth.vze.com/> vze.com/ (Warkworth photo
essay)
http://picasaweb. <http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/>
google.com/rsmallfield/ (Recent work) 

'Nature can be like a lover who gently touches your shoulder
and says, "It's alright."'
--George Meegan, 'The Longest Walk'

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Premier Matte BW

2007-06-21 by Harry Saddler

Ok, I've made a few prints on Premier Matte BW, and it's really  
good... the best blacks I've seen, great detail, and I love the  
smooth surface. Perfect... except that it's just a tad brighter and  
colder than I would like. Ok, more than a tad, actually. I'm using  
MIS carbon in the Y position on my 2400, which makes it hard to warm  
up without a magenta color shift, and it's hard to match that white  
with common mat boards. For those who have tried, does the Premier  
Hot Press have similar qualities to the Matte BW (hope, hope) except  
for the color?

Harry

On Apr 30, 2007, at 3:14 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:

> Hello Keith,
>
>> I just picked up some matte paper that was labeled Premier Matte.  It
>> did not specify Matte BW on the label.  Instead, it was labeled
>> Premier Matte.  I cross-checked the specifications from the Premier
>> site and it matches the 210gsm exactly.  Was the Matte BW known
>> previously by this name?
>
> Sorry, I don't know for sure, but the names seem interchangeable.  One
> of the greater mysteries in this business is figuring out Premier
> Art's paper names.
>
>
>
>> Clayton, what characteristics did you find with this paper?
>
> Well, pretty much what I listed in my original post:  smooth, bright
> white, cool toned, 2-sided, alpha cellulose, 210 gsm, relatively
> inexpensive, top-notch dmax.
>
>
>> I have been looking for a BW paper for some cool tone images and
>> have been dissatisfied with what I have tested so far.  I print
>> on a 2400 with the K3 inkset and am very pleased with my prints.
>
> "Cool tone" is relative, of course, when using a variable tone ink
> system.  Basically it means a given K ink will be rendered cooler on
> this paper than one of the commonly used warmer tone papers which make
> up the majority of matte papers.  So an ABW setting that is moderately
> warm on VFA might look neutral on this paper.
>
> One of the problems with using a cooler ABW setting on a paper that
> has a warm paper color is that the highlights will look warm and won't
> match the darker zones.  So most cool tone papers tend to have a
> whiter base color and often have BW in the name.  You can pretty much
> count on any "BW" paper being cool toned, although they vary in  
> degree.
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
>
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Please note: my personal email address is now harry@...;  
hsaddler@... will be retired shortly.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Premier Matte BW

2007-06-21 by mkirschner

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Harry Saddler  
> with common mat boards. For those who have tried, does the Premier  
> Hot Press have similar qualities to the Matte BW (hope, hope) except  
> for the color?

I haven't tried the Premier Matte BW, but I am using the Premier Art
Hot Press (PA 205), and it's wonderful. 

(I think I have the version w/o brighteners. That's the one I ordered,
but I'm not sure, as the paper is bright but slightly warm, and the
box label is ambiguous. This is definitely one of the more confusing
papers in terms of labeling/naming.) 

Anyway, I'm using it for Black-Only with Eboni on my C86. Lovely deep
blacks, surprisingly smooth, slightly warm overall look. I can't
believe I'm getting black-only this good on my C86. Black-only with
other papers isn't nearly as good on my printer. 

In fact, I like the results so much, and being on a tight hobbyist
budget, I'm still wrestling with whether to buy an R800 or R1800 to
try the 3-MK approach Paul has been writing about.

Sorry that was a bit of a ramble, but hopefully that gives you some
insight into your question about the PA Hot Press paper.

Mitch

Re: [Digital BW] Premier Matte BW

2007-06-21 by Greg Spitzer

Yes the paper is the same but without optical brighteners.
   go to there site for more info. 
   www.premierimagingproducts.com
  

Harry Saddler <hsaddler@...> wrote:
  Ok, I've made a few prints on Premier Matte BW, and it's really 
good... the best blacks I've seen, great detail, and I love the 
smooth surface. Perfect... except that it's just a tad brighter and 
colder than I would like. Ok, more than a tad, actually. I'm using 
MIS carbon in the Y position on my 2400, which makes it hard to warm 
up without a magenta color shift, and it's hard to match that white 
with common mat boards. For those who have tried, does the Premier 
Hot Press have similar qualities to the Matte BW (hope, hope) except 
for the color?

Harry

On Apr 30, 2007, at 3:14 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:

> Hello Keith,
>
>> I just picked up some matte paper that was labeled Premier Matte. It
>> did not specify Matte BW on the label. Instead, it was labeled
>> Premier Matte. I cross-checked the specifications from the Premier
>> site and it matches the 210gsm exactly. Was the Matte BW known
>> previously by this name?
>
> Sorry, I don't know for sure, but the names seem interchangeable. One
> of the greater mysteries in this business is figuring out Premier
> Art's paper names.
>
>
>
>> Clayton, what characteristics did you find with this paper?
>
> Well, pretty much what I listed in my original post: smooth, bright
> white, cool toned, 2-sided, alpha cellulose, 210 gsm, relatively
> inexpensive, top-notch dmax.
>
>
>> I have been looking for a BW paper for some cool tone images and
>> have been dissatisfied with what I have tested so far. I print
>> on a 2400 with the K3 inkset and am very pleased with my prints.
>
> "Cool tone" is relative, of course, when using a variable tone ink
> system. Basically it means a given K ink will be rendered cooler on
> this paper than one of the commonly used warmer tone papers which make
> up the majority of matte papers. So an ABW setting that is moderately
> warm on VFA might look neutral on this paper.
>
> One of the problems with using a cooler ABW setting on a paper that
> has a warm paper color is that the highlights will look warm and won't
> match the darker zones. So most cool tone papers tend to have a
> whiter base color and often have BW in the name. You can pretty much
> count on any "BW" paper being cool toned, although they vary in 
> degree.
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
>
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” 
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE 
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL 
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL 
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO 
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO 
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Please note: my personal email address is now harry@...; 
hsaddler@... will be retired shortly.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links





       
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Premier Matte BW

2007-06-22 by Paul Roark

> ..., does the Premier Hot Press have similar qualities to the 
> Matte BW (hope, hope) except for the color?

The Premier Art Smooth Hot Press 205 has a rather modest dmax compared to
the Matte BW.  The 270 and 325 have close to the same dmax as the Matte BW.
Premier Art claims all the smooth hot press papers have the same coating,
but I consistently get a lower dmax with the 205.  It's OK, but closer to
1.6 than the 1.7 Matte BW achieves.

I think the 270 may be the best combination of ability to feed (with a
little help) and dmax.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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