Digital BW, The Print

Steve,

You said, " For a neutral paper, the new Fibaprint Ultrasmooth glossy is a 
dead ringer for air-dried glossy FB paper..."

Can you tell us about the gloss differential?

On all the papers I have tried so far, using Ultrachrome K3 inks, the inks 
are far glossier than the paper, resulting in obvious dull patches wherever 
there is little or no ink. Ideally, for my purposes, the paper should have 
exactly the same gloss as the ink. Can you tell us if this new Fibaprint 
Ultrasmooth glossy at least comes closer than other glossy papers you have 
tried?

Olaf

Gloss differential is very minimal using the K3 inks---best results in minimizing gloss 
differences of all these new fiber gloss papers.  Paper is very much like the silver papers I 
used to use.  Only problem--the base is too lightweight and the paper is flimsy and the 
price is out of the ball park ridiculous! Otherwise a great paper! Eleanor

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "olaf ringdahl" <o.ringdahl@...> 
wrote:

>
> Steve,
> 
> You said, " For a neutral paper, the new Fibaprint Ultrasmooth glossy is a 
> dead ringer for air-dried glossy FB paper..."
> 
> Can you tell us about the gloss differential?
> 
> On all the papers I have tried so far, using Ultrachrome K3 inks, the inks 
> are far glossier than the paper, resulting in obvious dull patches wherever 
> there is little or no ink. Ideally, for my purposes, the paper should have 
> exactly the same gloss as the ink. Can you tell us if this new Fibaprint 
> Ultrasmooth glossy at least comes closer than other glossy papers you have 
> tried?
> 
> Olaf
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "olaf ringdahl" <o.ringdahl@...> 
wrote:
>...for my purposes, the paper should have 
> exactly the same gloss as the ink...

the problem is that the different inks have different amounts of gloss. For example, the PK in 
the K3 set is far glossier than some of the others, you'll see it very obviously in deep blues (C
+M) next to deep black. Blues look powdery next to K. You'll also see in even in the neutral 
ramp at different densities. I suspect PK is the glossiest of the inks.
I don't see how a paper can solve this. Some folks with RIPs are doing builds for the K of the 
LK, C, and M, with somewhat less problems.

However, those who complain about it the most to me are holding the print at such an angle 
to reveal the problem that you'd never actually view any print that way.
Though I'd like to see things better, the problem may be a bit overemphasised.
I still think pigments are going to evolve quite a bit, in this area as well as gamut.
Tyler

Tyler Boley wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "olaf ringdahl" <o.ringdahl@...> 
> wrote:
>> ...for my purposes, the paper should have 
>> exactly the same gloss as the ink...

[...]

> However, those who complain about it the most to me are holding the print at such an angle 
> to reveal the problem that you'd never actually view any print that way.
> Though I'd like to see things better, the problem may be a bit overemphasised.

I could not agree more.  This is the age-old problem - photographers inspect
their prints as if under a microscope.  We find every little annoyance, like
the slightly soft lens it was taken with, or the gloss differential :-)

I've begun to fight the urge to inspect prints so closely and instead
try to appreciate the image, rather than the microscopic details.  That doesn't
it isn't appropriate to inspect closely at some points, or that improved
inks aren't welcome.  It just means we need to remember to view the image
before picking it apart.

> I still think pigments are going to evolve quite a bit, in this area as well as gamut.

Agreed.

Dana

Eleanor Brown wrote:
> Gloss differential is very minimal using the K3 inks---best results in minimizing gloss 
> differences of all these new fiber gloss papers.  Paper is very much like the silver papers I 
> used to use.  Only problem--the base is too lightweight and the paper is flimsy and the 
> price is out of the ball park ridiculous! Otherwise a great paper! Eleanor

I just checked B&H's price on Innova UltraSmooth Glossy - and yes, it is
quite dear, $48 for 25 8.5x11 sheets <cough-cough>.  Is there a better
source for this paper?  The surface sounds really appealing to me... maybe
it's better if I don't try it and get hooked.

Dana