Digital BW, The Print

I know not many people are using the Lyson monochromes, and I'm 
reffering to the non-SG inkset here, but I'd like to hear any 
experiences compared to either Piezo or MIS quads.

My angle is that even with the MIS, I'm getting clogs. If I turn the 
1280 on each day, I can usually clear it in 15 minutes with one or two 
cleaning cycles-purge pages alone don't do it. This is a lot of ink, 
and I'm starting to think of how nice those Epson inks slip through 
the system, giving me perfect nozzle checks almost always. I've given 
up on CIS and CFS and am using carts, to keep everything absolutely 
fresh. My rule now is to use a cart no longer than 4 weeks (it never 
lasts that long anyway), nor any closed 4 ounce bottle more than 5-6 
months.

I have narrowed the problem down to either decreased barometric 
pressure here in Colorado at altitude or swinging the sacrificial 
chicken at full moon counter-clockwise instead of clock-wise over my 
printer.

However, Lyson quads are DYE based inks. Yes I know about the 
metamerism. Would getting the coldish version of the inkset cut down 
some of the warming under tungsten lighting or make it worse? How do 
they fair longevity wise on matte papers, and how does workflow/ 
output compare to say Piezo/MIS FS or MIS VM?

And finally...would greatly appreciate stories of clogging or lack 
thereof wrt Lyson vs MIS...
Jim H.

Jim-

I use MIS and Lyson in two different 1160s. The MIS is in a CIS 
system and I've never really had a clog from it (near daily printing 
for about 2 months now). The first lyson I used was SG and it took 
quite a few cleaning cycles to get it working correctly (I chalk it 
up to a funny cart or just karma, but I still get the odd clog which 
I would discover from microbanding and then run clean cycles.)

I very recently popped in a couple of lyson quad neutral carts just 
for a change of pace and because if I like one of these, I think the 
way to go will be to put in a CIS and buy refill carts for luminous 
quads (lyson repackaged) for the 9000 (holds 220ml ink). My own 
feeling is that there are less problems with CIS than carts (just an 
opinion) so I want to get locked into a second ink (from FS) with a 
CIS.

I may be wrong, but I don't think there are metamerism issues with 
dye, just pigs????

The work flow is fairly straightforward... Lyson has published a lot 
of profiles on their website and I'm reasonably happy with the 
output... Though I'm working to get the neutral slightly less magenta 
without blocking up my shadows.

I can't find it, but I read something in the 65 year range for the 
quads (looks like the lyson site only refers to the color ink tests).

There have been so few complaints of clogging with the MIS inks that 
I suggest you consider it might be the printer and see if Epson will 
swap it out for you. No way should any printer need 15 minutes a day 
of cleaning. I'm sure you've looked in the archives here...lots of 
stuff to clean clogs...

Good luck,

Tom O'Connell


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jimhayes361" 
<jimhayes@j...> wrote:
> I know not many people are using the Lyson monochromes, and I'm 
> reffering to the non-SG inkset here, but I'd like to hear any 
> experiences compared to either Piezo or MIS quads.
> 
> My angle is that even with the MIS, I'm getting clogs. If I turn 
the 
> 1280 on each day, I can usually clear it in 15 minutes with one or 
two 
> cleaning cycles-purge pages alone don't do it. This is a lot of 
ink, 
> and I'm starting to think of how nice those Epson inks slip through 
> the system, giving me perfect nozzle checks almost always. I've 
given 
> up on CIS and CFS and am using carts, to keep everything absolutely 
> fresh. My rule now is to use a cart no longer than 4 weeks (it 
never 
> lasts that long anyway), nor any closed 4 ounce bottle more than 5-
6 
> months.
> 
> I have narrowed the problem down to either decreased barometric 
> pressure here in Colorado at altitude or swinging the sacrificial 
> chicken at full moon counter-clockwise instead of clock-wise over 
my 
> printer.
> 
> However, Lyson quads are DYE based inks. Yes I know about the 
> metamerism. Would getting the coldish version of the inkset cut 
down 
> some of the warming under tungsten lighting or make it worse? How 
do 

> they fair longevity wise on matte papers, and how does workflow/ 
> output compare to say Piezo/MIS FS or MIS VM?
> 
> And finally...would greatly appreciate stories of clogging or lack 
> thereof wrt Lyson vs MIS...
> Jim H.

I am having a hard time with MIS inks - have you seen separation?

- fR

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jimhayes361" <jimhayes@j...> wrote:

> I know not many people are using the Lyson monochromes, and I'm 
> reffering to the non-SG inkset here, but I'd like to hear any 
> experiences compared to either Piezo or MIS quads.
> 
> My angle is that even with the MIS, I'm getting clogs. If I turn the 
> 1280 on each day, I can usually clear it in 15 minutes with one or two 
> cleaning cycles-purge pages alone don't do it. This is a lot of ink, 
> and I'm starting to think of how nice those Epson inks slip through 
> the system, giving me perfect nozzle checks almost always. I've given 
> up on CIS and CFS and am using carts, to keep everything absolutely 
> fresh. My rule now is to use a cart no longer than 4 weeks (it never 
> lasts that long anyway), nor any closed 4 ounce bottle more than 5-6 
> months.
> 
> I have narrowed the problem down to either decreased barometric 
> pressure here in Colorado at altitude or swinging the sacrificial 
> chicken at full moon counter-clockwise instead of clock-wise over my 
> printer.
> 
> However, Lyson quads are DYE based inks. Yes I know about the 
> metamerism. Would getting the coldish version of the inkset cut down 
> some of the warming under tungsten lighting or make it worse? How do 
> they fair longevity wise on matte papers, and how does workflow/ 
> output compare to say Piezo/MIS FS or MIS VM?
> 
> And finally...would greatly appreciate stories of clogging or lack 
> thereof wrt Lyson vs MIS...
> Jim H.

I started off using Lumious quad inks (monochrome) and then 
switched to Lyson. The reason being, the Lumious inks are 
identical to, and made by Lyson, but the Lyson inks are a lot 
cheaper. I've had very good results with these inks on my Epson 
1200 with no clogs what so ever. I haven't tried the MIS inks, and 
probably won't because of all I read about the trouble everyone 
seems to have with them regarding clogging etc. The other 
beauty of the Lyson/Luminos inks are that you don't need any 
special tweaking with curves and all that to get a great looking 
print. I just convert my color image to grey scale, and then back to 
RGB and print. No fuss, no muss.....couldn't be easier and with 
perfect results every time. As for longevity, from what I read, they 
will last 100+ years, but this is an on going debate with all the 
inks, and unless one does their own scientific testing, we are 
stuck with what info is out there, whether or not it's correct, so 
what are you going to do? Everybody makes claims, so one has 
to decide who to believe. I like the inks so much, that I'm setting 
up a continuos flow system and buying the Lyson inks in bulk 
bottles which will reduce my costs dramatically and allow me to 
print as much as I want with out the worry of cost, not to mention 
never having to change cartridges and flushing ink down the 
toilet every time you do. By the way, I'm using the neutral tone ink 
set. I haven't tired the warm and cool versions, but from what I 
understand the longevity of the neutral is longer than the two. I'm 
also printing on Hahnemuhle photo rag, which is a very nice 
paper. The results is like photogravure...very lush and rich.
I hope this has been useful to you......good luck!
Don

Don-

I just tried a Lyson Quad neutral cart. I found the result to be 
almost like a maroon duotone rather than neutral. I found some 
profiles on the lyson site but none of them seemed to match the 1160 
and quad inks (you may know their terminology better?). I tried a 
couple of the profiles and they didn't really seem to change much.

Obviously you are getting a different experience. I wonder if there 
is some other setting I need to be aware of? would you mind posting 
the other printer/software settings you use?

Where can you buy Lyson bulk ink? I would be very interested in 
getting bulk small gamut ink, if not the warm or neutral quad? 

For me the reason to use the Lyson is not the price or clogging (I've 
never had a MIS ink clog, and have only heard of one or two others 
who have) but the Lyson ink is dye ink and makes much much better 
semi gloss and pearl paper prints.

Thanks for the post... Dying to find out where to buy the bulk ink.

Thanks,

Tom O'Connell

TomOC@...
www.thomasoconnell.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Cameraguy5" 
<frenchpassive@y...> wrote:
> I started off using Lumious quad inks (monochrome) and then 
> switched to Lyson. The reason being, the Lumious inks are 
> identical to, and made by Lyson, but the Lyson inks are a lot 
> cheaper. I've had very good results with these inks on my Epson 
> 1200 with no clogs what so ever. I haven't tried the MIS inks, and 
> probably won't because of all I read about the trouble everyone 
> seems to have with them regarding clogging etc. The other 
> beauty of the Lyson/Luminos inks are that you don't need any 
> special tweaking with curves and all that to get a great looking 
> print. I just convert my color image to grey scale, and then back 
to 
> RGB and print. No fuss, no muss.....couldn't be easier and with 
> perfect results every time. As for longevity, from what I read, 
they 
> will last 100+ years, but this is an on going debate with all the 
> inks, and unless one does their own scientific testing, we are 
> stuck with what info is out there, whether or not it's correct, so 
> what are you going to do? Everybody makes claims, so one has 
> to decide who to believe. I like the inks so much, that I'm setting 
> up a continuos flow system and buying the Lyson inks in bulk 
> bottles which will reduce my costs dramatically and allow me to 
> print as much as I want with out the worry of cost, not to mention 
> never having to change cartridges and flushing ink down the 
> toilet every time you do. By the way, I'm using the neutral tone 
ink 

> set. I haven't tired the warm and cool versions, but from what I 
> understand the longevity of the neutral is longer than the two. I'm 
> also printing on Hahnemuhle photo rag, which is a very nice 
> paper. The results is like photogravure...very lush and rich.
> I hope this has been useful to you......good luck!
> Don

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "tomoc" <tomoc@y...> 
wrote:
> Don-
> 
> I just tried a Lyson Quad neutral cart. I found the result to be 
> almost like a maroon duotone rather than neutral. I found 
some 
> profiles on the lyson site but none of them seemed to match 
the 1160 
> and quad inks (you may know their terminology better?). I tried 
a 
> couple of the profiles and they didn't really seem to change 
much.
> 
> Obviously you are getting a different experience. I wonder if 
there 
> is some other setting I need to be aware of? would you mind 
posting 
> the other printer/software settings you use?
> 
> Where can you buy Lyson bulk ink? I would be very interested 
in 
> getting bulk small gamut ink, if not the warm or neutral quad? 
> 
> For me the reason to use the Lyson is not the price or clogging 
(I've 
> never had a MIS ink clog, and have only heard of one or two 
others 
> who have) but the Lyson ink is dye ink and makes much much 
better 
> semi gloss and pearl paper prints.
> 
> Thanks for the post... Dying to find out where to buy the bulk 
ink.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom O'Connell
> 
> TomOC@y...
> www.thomasoconnell.com
> 
> 
The color I get is sort of a selenim tone under tungsten light, but 
more neutral under daylight. I like the warmer look of it under 
tungsten, and the daylight doesn't bother me. Galleries always 
have tungsten light, so I print for that. There will always be a 
certain amount of color shift depending on the light you view 
under regardless of what medium you are using. Test it out and 
see if it works for you. You can't change the color balance with 
the neutral inks. I balance my monitor for lightness/darkness to 
match my paper using Knoll software that came with  Photoshop 
3 or 4. I'm on Photoshop 6 now, but still use the Knoll calibration 
software. Rather than using paper profiles and such, which 
never really are accurate enough for me, I use Knoll to balance 
my monitor for all the papers I use. I then just load the profile to 
match the paper and print away.