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Re: [Digital BW] New to B&W Printing - Dedicated Ink Sets and B&W Workflow Questions

Re: [Digital BW] New to B&W Printing - Dedicated Ink Sets and B&W Workflow Questions

2007-07-17 by Brian Ellis

"(1) Will I get better results from a dedicated 1280 with third party  inks 
for B&W or do I use
the Epson 2200 w/ stock UC inks and QTR?

I used MIS inks in my 1280 some years ago. I don't remember exactly which 
ones but I think they were a type that isn't made any more - Variable Tone 
or something like that - with Paul Roark's curves. I also used QTR with my 
2200 and Epson UC inks, originally substituting MIS Eboni for the Epson 
black matte, then just using the Epson UC black matte when I ran into some 
problems with the Eboni cartridges. I saw no noticeable difference between 
the two in terms of print quality with prints up to about 12x17, both 
produced excellent results. However, using Epson UC inks in the 2200 allowed 
me to use the printer for color and b&w, which of course I couldn't do with 
the MIS inks. And I used to have enough quality control problems with the 
MIS inks for it to be irritating. I've never had a problem with Epson inks. 
So as between the two I'd use the 2200, QTR, and Epson inks.......

"(3) Is there a way to soft proof curve blends in QTR or with the Paul Roark 
curves."

I'm not aware of a way to do this with QTR though there are some of its 
features that I don't use. I made a bunch of prints of a 21 step wedge using 
different blends to get an idea of what each would look like. I don't 
remember for sure whether it was possible with MIS inks and Paul's curves or 
not, it's been quite a while since I used that combination.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jturner4210626" <JTurner421@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 2:00 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] New to B&W Printing - Dedicated Ink Sets and B&W 
Workflow Questions


Hello. I originally posted this on the QTR group but after additional time 
thought it might
be generic enough question for this forum.  I have at home an Epson 1280 and 
the printer
that replaced it an Epson 2200. I realize these are old printers in the 
scheme of things but
they have and still serve me well. I also own an Eye One Photo package and 
have been
making profiles for my printers for several years and get excellent screen 
to print match. I
have mostly concentrated on color printing the past several years but am 
looking to
venture into the world of B&W. I downloaded QTR the other day and played 
around with
printing to my Epson 2200 and was somewhat pleased with the output although 
I realize I
could probably do better.  I have also taken a look at the Paul Roark 
workflow but have not
tried them out as they seem to require dedicated ink sets. I am not in the 
market for a new
printer at this time although the Epson 2400 looks inviting.

Several questions:

1) Will I get better results from a dedicated 1280 with third party  inks 
for B&W or do I use
the Epson 2200 w/ stock UC inks and QTR?
2) QTR - I believe that I have the workflow for soft proofing correct. If I 
use the soft proof
in CS2 using the gray matte profile, this is a general representation of my 
image printing
through QTR assuming a neutral print. I may also convert the image to the 
QTR Gray 2.2
workspace and work on it that way.
3) Is there a way to soft proof curve blends in QTR or with the Paul Roark 
curves

Sorry for the rookie questions and thank you in advance for your reply.

--Joel Turner



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Re: [Digital BW] New to B&W Printing - Dedicated Ink Sets and B&W Workflow Quest

2007-07-18 by djon43

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Brian Ellis
<bellis60@...> wrote:
>
> "(1) Will I get better results from a dedicated 1280 with third
party  inks 
> for B&W or do I use
> the Epson 2200 w/ stock UC inks and QTR?

I think you'll be happiest with MIS inks and 2200 or 2200 with OEM and
QTR...either way...it's not a question of equipment, it's
skill...unless you want to spring for a 2400, which I don't think will
be superior. 

1280 is great with MIS, but then you're stuck with MIS only because
the OEM for 1280 is nowhere as good as OEM for 2200.

Re: [Digital BW] New to B&W Printing - Dedicated Ink Sets and B&W Workflow Quest

2007-07-18 by Douglas meeuwsen

I used the 1280 with MIS ut2 inks, and it was a major pain to load  
the ink, and it simply never really worked very well. Constant  
cleaning cycles and wasted paper. It always took more that one sheet  
per print. At least one print to see that it needed a cleaning cycle,  
even when the nozzle checks were Ok.
On the 2400, I have never even done one cleaning cylce in two years.  
And It always nails the print the first time, exactly like the Mac  
(CRT) screen, with no fancy calibrations. I am sure I have saved the  
price of the printer in paper costs...(probably an exaggeration, but  
hey)
The 2400 really works great, all the time. You simply cannot say that  
about the 1280 with pigment inks. Not even close. It can barely sit  
for 12 hours without getting a clog. Sometimes my 2400 sits for two  
weeks or more......the machines are worlds apart in quality/
Dm
On Jul 17, 2007, at 8:48 PM, djon43 wrote:

>
> 1280 is great with MIS, but then you're stuck with MIS only because
> the OEM for 1280 is nowhere as good as OEM for 2200.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] New to B&W Printing - Dedicated Ink Sets and B&W Workflow Quest

2007-07-18 by djon43

Several of the best in my print exchange still use old 1280s...one of
them was recently shopping for another 1280. I doubt either gentleman
is nuts, and both are in the business of selling prints.

Presumably problems with 1280 are due to operator practices or
individual machine quirks, since they've served so many for so long.

Unfortunately there do seem to be a lot of posts about 2400 feed
problems. I wonder if 300gsm isn't worse with them than with 2200?

2200 seems to offer advantages over both 1280 (oem pigments better
than oem inks archivally) and 2400 ... media-tolerant, much like 1280.

These Epson machines are all miracles ...they're not designed to last
forever and quality control can only go so far at the low price (2400
is cheaper than my office laser printer). 

In addition, they are designed and built specifically for people who
are creatively incompetent, like myself :-)

John





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas meeuwsen
<lipshurt@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I used the 1280 with MIS ut2 inks, and it was a major pain to load  
> the ink, and it simply never really worked very well. Constant  
> cleaning cycles and wasted paper. It always took more that one sheet  
> per print. At least one print to see that it needed a cleaning cycle,  
> even when the nozzle checks were Ok.
> On the 2400, I have never even done one cleaning cylce in two years.  
> And It always nails the print the first time, exactly like the Mac  
> (CRT) screen, with no fancy calibrations. I am sure I have saved the  
> price of the printer in paper costs...(probably an exaggeration, but  
> hey)
> The 2400 really works great, all the time. You simply cannot say that  
> about the 1280 with pigment inks. Not even close. It can barely sit  
> for 12 hours without getting a clog. Sometimes my 2400 sits for two  
> weeks or more......the machines are worlds apart in quality/
> Dm
> On Jul 17, 2007, at 8:48 PM, djon43 wrote:
> 
> >
> > 1280 is great with MIS, but then you're stuck with MIS only because
> > the OEM for 1280 is nowhere as good as OEM for 2200.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] New to B&W Printing - Dedicated Ink Sets and B&W Workflow Quest

2007-07-19 by jturner4210626

I appreciate everyone's responses.  For the moment, I have ordered a cleaning kit for my 
1280.  I haven't printed with it in about 2 years so at the moment its not functional.  Should I 
resolve the clog heads, I will probably order etiher UT2 or K6 inks and play around with it 
using QTR.  

--Joel

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