Digital BW, The Print

Hello,

My prints, UT-FS ink on Photo Rag, get a lot warmer after some weeks
or months, and there is a little change in the density too. This
happens even under very moderate and incidental artificial light. The
fresh print looks stunning, but after a while it gets too red. The
same happens to prints which are framed behind glass, but here the
process goes a lot slower.

This does not make me happy, and I would like to know:

1. Is this a common problem with UT-FS on Photo Rag? Does it happen to
you too?

2. Can I get rid of this problem by switching to Innova Smooth Cotton
High white paper? It looks a lot like Photo Rag, but will it last?

Thank you.

Igor

>My prints, UT-FS ink on Photo Rag, get a lot warmer 
>after some weeks or months, ...

This debate on inkjet stability has both real and imagined issues, in my
view.  

Among the real issues is the warming of prints.  This is the first thing
most people see, but it is very paper specific.  The burning out of the OBAs
can happen quickly, though some are apparently much better than others.  I
think, however, most OBAs are dyes that will "fade" as quickly as we are
accustomed to dyes fading.  When they fade, the image will appear to warm as
the paper warms.

I think there are probably other aspects of tone changes that relate to
other aspects of the paper and probably mostly its coating.  I don't pretend
to know all the factors here. 

However, I prefer papers with no OBAs.  I use Premier Art 205 a lot due not
only to its good price but also because Epson claims it's version is its
most archival paper, and that also appears evident in my fade tests.  For
example, in a fade test of UT7, which has the same pigs in it as the UT-FS,
after what would be approximately 13 Wilhelm years the 50% neutral patch
showed only a 0.75% density change.  Lab A decreased only 0.13 and Lab B
increased only 0.07 units.  The tone changes on EEM were dramatically more:
Lab A -0.95, Lab B + 2.57.  (Note that the Lab B changes slow dramatically
after all the OBAs are burned out.)

So, in my tests, the paper makes a huge difference.  I, unfortunately, do
not have the information (or time to develop it) as to which papers cause
what tone changes.  And, my tests would not be accepted by the people we
need to convince.  So, I rely on Epson (as well as my own tests of PA 205).


In addition to these real concerns, which can be accelerated many times with
humidity, heat, UV exposure, and airborne oxidizers, we still face what I
think is a partially emotional bias in the larger art field.  Walker noted
on Monday that he knew of 3 galleries that refuse inkjets.  The co-op
gallery I'm in and president of had to waive its rules limiting
photographers and digital prints to get me in.  In the New York Times on
June 5, 2007, (web article at
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/05/technology/circuits/05print.html?ex=133869
6000&en=dc4cfd74a33153d1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss )  there was an
article entitled, "It Isn't That Images Fade, It's That They Can Vanish."
This article included statements that, "traditional color prints have an
advantage over inkjet prints." And, "Conventional black-and-white prints,
which are made up of tiny grains of silver, remain the undisputed longevity
champions."  Implicitly and explicitly, inkjet prints were given second
class treatment.

In short, there is still a negative perception of our favored output among
many.  Some of it is based on real fact, but some of it is based on what I
think is simple prejudice.  In my gallery, for example, a digital
photographer who managed to get in is our Featured Artist this month.  He's
doing very well, selling among other things huge 9800 color prints of Canon
DSLR close-ups of grapes for $750.  (The link at the bottom of
http://www.gallerylosolivos.com/ gets to some of John's work but not the
color work that is selling the best.)  The reaction of the watercolor and
other (non-photo) artists is along the lines of "it's not fair -- it's too
easy for him ..."  I see this as a prejudice based in part of simple
jealousy, but I'm not going to get into it with them.

So, I think we still have both real and public relations issues that hurt us
in at least some markets -- and markets that I'm interested in.  We can do
something about some of the real issues, but the PR issues are going to take
time.  

What I'm doing with the 100% carbon printing is actually aimed at both the
real and PR issues.  I think I can make an incremental improvement in the
already very good materials, but I also think the approach can help with the
perception issue.  We'll see.  I hope that my attempts along these lines are
not seen as disparagement of the other very good materials that are already
out there.  My fade tests show the current MIS, Piezo, and UC inks
(particularly when sprayed with Print Shield and when excess color is
eliminated) to be very close.  (The UC inks appear to be more sensitive to
UV, but the Epson magenta is the best I've tested.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> Among the real issues is the warming of prints. This is the first
thing most people see, but it is very paper specific.

That's why I'm looking for an alternative for Photo Rag. I know you,
Paul, like Premier Art Smooth a lot, but I can't get it here in
Holland (I can order it in the USA, but shipping will be costly). I
can buy Epson Ultrasmooth here (which is virtually the same as Premier
Art Smooth, isn't it?), but it is very expensive over here and only
available in A3+ size and larger.

Innova Smooth Cotton High white paper looks good and sells here for
about the same price as Photo Rag, but what about its longevity?


> most OBAs are dyes that will "fade" as quickly as we are accustomed
to dyes fading. When they fade, the image will appear to warm as
the paper warms.

As the OBAs fade, the paper becomes yellow. My prints, however, become
red. That's funny (but not amusing). 



> I think I can make an incremental improvement in the already very
good materials (...)  I hope that my attempts along these lines are
not seen as disparagement of the other very good materials that are
already out there.

You're attempts are very usefull and extremely welcome. Please go on.
And about the 'disparagement', remember that we are not here to please
the manufacturers but to make things better.


I g o r

Hi Igor,

>> Among the real issues is the warming of prints. This is 
>>the first thing most people see, but it is very paper specific.

>That's why I'm looking for an alternative for Photo Rag. 
>... Premier Art Smooth ... can't get ... in Holland
>Ultrasmooth ... is very expensive ...

I think the main factor for avoiding the yellowing is avoiding the OBAs, but
there may be other factors like acidity or particular characteristics of the
coating or print environment that are causing the problems.

With respect to the OBAs, another paper I've used and like is Permajet
Alpha.  It uses an Innova non-brightened coating.  It's not quite as white
as Premier Art.

>Innova Smooth Cotton High white ...

Any "high white" paper is going to have OBAs.

>> most OBAs are dyes that will "fade" as quickly as we 
>>are accustomed to dyes fading. When they fade, the image 
>>will appear to warm as the paper warms.

>As the OBAs fade, the paper becomes yellow. My prints, 
>however, become red. That's funny (but not amusing).

Yes, I'm wondering if you're dealing with more than the OBAs.  Are you sure
you have the UT-FS and not the original MIS FS?  Is it possible you're
getting some exposure to ozone or other airborne pollutant that could be
attacking the prints?  

I had some older prints made with first generation pigments on some second
rate paper that also appeared to shift red.  However, with the current
generation of MIS UT pigments and most of the papers I've tested Lab A
decreases as the magenta (or R800 blue) fades the fastest.  On the Premier
Art, most of the change is consistent with this magenta (or just slightly
better R800 blue) fading.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hello Paul,

> Are you sure you have the UT-FS and not the original MIS FS?

I'm sure I always ordered UT-FS at MIS. However, while the labels on
my older bottles say "FS-4-C", "FS-4-M" etc, the new ones I recently
bought say "UTFS-2000-4-C", "UTFS-2000-4-M" etc. Does that make any
difference?





> I think the main factor for avoiding the yellowing is avoiding the OBAs

I understand. But papers without OBAs are more yellow by themselves,
so what use will that be: it will not yellow because it is already
yellow. For instance, instead of Innova Smooth Cotton HIGH white, I
can also choose Innova Smooth Cotton NATURAL white, which may not
contain OBAs but is therefore yellow right out of the package (well,
not really yellow, of course. Kind of ivory).



> another paper I've used and like is Permajet Alpha.

Not available here...



> Is it possible you're getting some exposure to ozone or other
airborne pollutant that could be attacking the prints?

Well yes, but it also happens to prints that are framed behind glass
(but a lot slower).



Just to make sure: Epson Ultrasmooth is virtually the same as
Premier Art Smooth, isn't it?


Thank you,

Igor

Paul, you helped me a great deal. Much obliged. And if you find a
European distributor for Premier Art, that would be welcome.

Have a nice weekend, over there in Solvang (if I remember it right).

I g o r

Igor,

>... the labels on my older bottles say "FS-4-C", "FS-4-M" etc, 
>the new ones I recently bought say "UTFS-2000-4-C", "UTFS-2000-4-M" etc.
> Does that make any difference?

Yes, the "UT" at the beginning is the key.  The plain "FS" is the older ink
and it's not as lightfast.

>> I think the main factor for avoiding the yellowing is avoiding the OBAs

> But papers without OBAs are more yellow by themselves,

True.  Some are brighter than others, and the best non-OBA papers actually
have a higher Lab L than many or the "brightened" papers.  However, it's
true that most seem to prefer the brightened papers.

> so what use will that be: it will not yellow because it is 
> already yellow.

There is some truth in that, but there also may be an effect on the way
pigments react on the paper.  It's hard for me to separate the factors that
cause the 50% patch hue changes.

From my perspective, I don't want any visible change, regardless of what
causes it.  I think customers will interpret any yellowing of a brightened
paper as evidence that I've sold them cheap paper.  Also, the matte board I
use is non-brightened (as I suspect are most), as such, the non-brightened
paper looks better next to it.

>... Kind of ivory

Yes, I prefer such a description.

>> Is it possible you're getting some exposure to ozone or 
>> other airborne pollutant that could be attacking the prints?

>Well yes, but it also happens to prints that are framed behind
> glass (but a lot slower).

>Just to make sure: Epson Ultrasmooth is virtually the 
>same as Premier Art Smooth, isn't it?

Yes.  As best I can tell (and get out of both Epson and Premier Art reps)
it's a 250 gsm weight version of the coating that is on Epson Premier Art
Scrapbook (205) and Premier Art 205.  I've noticed slight profiling
differences, but they may be batch and paper weight differences.  

I wonder if there are suppliers in the U.S. that would ship these products
are reasonable prices.  I've never looked into it.  I'll ask Premier if they
have any European distributors.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com