Digital BW, The Print

I've been taking a couple bookbinding classes that have been great 
fun.  I'd like to put together a couple photobooks with what I've 
learned.

My question is on roll paper, does the grain direction run the length 
of the roll or across it?  Is this too simple of a question and the 
answer varies from roll to roll, mfg to mfg?

The reason I ask, is the instructor said that paper grain should run 
parallel with the spine of the book and I'm looking into available 
paper sizes for some experiments.  Roll paper seems the best option.

Thanks,
Earl

There are probably an exception to this somewhere, but the grain on roll paper should run the length, not the width, of the roll. Be careful using roll paper for book project, though; you'll have to deal with the paper curl.


 


Bill Kennedy
K2 Press
Austin, Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: esharamaki <esharamaki@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 4:56 pm
Subject: [Digital BW] Paper Grain Direction


















  



    

            
I've been taking a couple bookbinding classes that have been great 

fun.  I'd like to put together a couple photobooks with what I've 

learned.



My question is on roll paper, does the grain direction run the length 

of the roll or across it?  Is this too simple of a question and the 

answer varies from roll to roll, mfg to mfg?



The reason I ask, is the instructor said that paper grain should run 

parallel with the spine of the book and I'm looking into available 

paper sizes for some experiments.  Roll paper seems the best option.



Thanks,

Earl





    
  

    
    








 


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 10:04 AM Tuesday 9/18/2007, you wrote:
>There are probably an exception to this somewhere, but the grain on roll paper should run the length, not the width, of the roll. Be careful using roll paper for book project, though; you'll have to deal with the paper curl.

I've found that, after being flat for about a week once cut from the roll, that PremierArt Matte BW is quite flat. It's 210gsm so the weight might be ok ... or a bit heavy for a book?

Richard

--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/ (Recent work) 

   "A bore is a person who talks so much about themselves 
   that you can't talk about yourself."
   --anon

esharamaki wrote:
> I've been taking a couple bookbinding classes that have been great 
> fun.  I'd like to put together a couple photobooks with what I've 
> learned.
> 
> My question is on roll paper, does the grain direction run the length 
> of the roll or across it?  Is this too simple of a question and the 
> answer varies from roll to roll, mfg to mfg?

With roll lengths of more than 17 feet it is more or less 
impossible that the grain isn't lengthwise. Below 17 feet it 
is also unlikely to happen. With sheets you never know which 
direction.. They should add that information on the box for 
more reasons than just bookbinding. But you must have 
learned how to find the grain direction.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

At 9:51 AM +0200 9/18/07, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

>But you must have learned how to find the grain direction.


Ernst:

I curious.

By folding, it's obvious.

Is there a non-destructive way.


Best wishes,

-=-Dennis

























.

Dennis W. Manasco wrote:
> At 9:51 AM +0200 9/18/07, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> 
>> But you must have learned how to find the grain direction.
> 
> 
> Ernst:
> 
> I curious.
> 
> By folding, it's obvious.
> 
> Is there a non-destructive way.

Folding, tearing, making it wet but the only non-destructive 
way I know would be a light table and a microscope or loupe.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

One option you might consider is to contact Jim Doyle at Shades of Paper (www.shadesofpaper.com). He can work with you on paper selection. I believe it's possible to order a quantity of sheet paper from Innova that is cut and packaged with the grain direction identified. We're using Innova Photo Smooth Cotton Duo for artist's books. And, depending on the quantity you need, you can save money on the packaging.


 


Bill Kennedy
K2 Press
Austin, Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis W. Manasco <dmanasco@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 3:46 am
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Paper Grain Direction


















  



    

            
At 9:51 AM +0200 9/18/07, Ernst Dinkla wrote:



>But you must have learned how to find the grain direction.



Ernst:



I curious.



By folding, it's obvious.



Is there a non-destructive way.



Best wishes,



-=-Dennis



.



    
  

    
    








 


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill,
With your book projects have you had any issues with ink rub-off on
the Innova cotton, or are you interleaving pages?
-- 
amadou diallo
Author, Mastering Digital Black and White
www.masteringdigitalbwbook.com

We're early on in this, but yes, as you know rub-off is an issue with inkjet prints. You have to be very careful handling the printed sheets; and work with a binder/craftsman who understands that inkjet sheets are relatively fragile. My impression is that once the book is assembled and bound, the images are well protected, though, and interleaving is more an aesthetic choice than a necessity.

Incidentally, word is that Canon's next generation of printers (due soon) have reformulated ink that specifically addresses the "fragility issue". I sure hope so. If the inks are inherently more durable--less prone to abrasion, scuffing, and scratching--combined with the higher through-put of the Canon printers, it could be an excellent production machine. The thing about artist's books is that you have to push a lot of paper. And, unlike printing individual images, time becomes a major consideration.

Imposition (relatively easy with the right software) and registration for duplex printing (a problem) seem to be bigger issues than ink rub-off.

We'll be printing our largest and most important project to date over the next three weeks. Will know more on the other side.




 


Bill Kennedy
K2 Press
Austin, Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: amadou diallo <amadiallo@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com; BKPhoto@... <BKPhoto@...>
Sent: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 8:37 am
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Paper Grain Direction


















  



    

            
Bill,

With your book projects have you had any issues with ink rub-off on

the Innova cotton, or are you interleaving pages?

-- 

amadou diallo

Author, Mastering Digital Black and White

www.masteringdigitalbwbook.com



    
  

    
    








 


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What about offset onto facing pages?  I'm about to start a project (my 
first), probably on Innova Smooth Cotton.  Should I print on facing 
pages?  If so, do I need interleave?  Does one use interleave paper (or 
tissue) or something else?

Mitch

BKPhoto@... wrote:

>  We're early on in this, but yes, as you know rub-off is an issue with inkjet prints. You have to be very careful handling the printed sheets; and work with a binder/craftsman who understands that inkjet sheets are relatively fragile. My impression is that once the book is assembled and bound, the images are well protected, though, and interleaving is more an aesthetic choice than a necessity.
>
> Incidentally, word is that Canon's next generation of printers (due soon) have reformulated ink that specifically addresses the "fragility issue". I sure hope so. If the inks are inherently more durable--less prone to abrasion, scuffing, and scratching--combined with the higher through-put of the Canon printers, it could be an excellent production machine. The thing about artist's books is that you have to push a lot of paper. And, unlike printing individual images, time becomes a major consideration.
>
> Imposition (relatively easy with the right software) and registration for duplex printing (a problem) seem to be bigger issues than ink rub-off.
>
> We'll be printing our largest and most important project to date over the next three weeks. Will know more on the other side.
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
> Bill Kennedy
> K2 Press
> Austin, Texas
>
>  
>
>
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amadou diallo <amadiallo@...>
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com; BKPhoto@... <BKPhoto@...>
> Sent: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 8:37 am
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Paper Grain Direction
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>
>
>
>     
>
>             
> Bill,
>
> With your book projects have you had any issues with ink rub-off on
>
> the Innova cotton, or are you interleaving pages?
>
>

Thanks for the info Bill. Good luck with the project.
-- 
amadou diallo
Author, Mastering Digital Black and White
www.masteringdigitalbwbook.com

Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing, I was more
concerned with ink migrating from the image to the back of the
previous page, especially in areas of heavy ink load. Have you seen
any of that?
-- 
amadou diallo
Author, Mastering Digital Black and White
www.masteringdigitalbwbook.com

It's interesting; I've heard about it, and discussed the issue with our binder, but haven't seen it with our work yet. Hope I'm not jinking anything!

Hope this isn't too speculative, but as you know the OEM print drivers typically put down way too much ink; much more than is necessary. I wonder if that contributes to ink migrating from one surface to another?


 


Bill Kennedy
K2 Press
Austin, Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: amadou diallo <amadiallo@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 9:56 am
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Paper Grain Direction


















  



    

            
Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing, I was more

concerned with ink migrating from the image to the back of the

previous page, especially in areas of heavy ink load. Have you seen

any of that?

-- 

amadou diallo

Author, Mastering Digital Black and White

www.masteringdigitalbwbook.com



    
  

    
    








 


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 1:48 PM +0200 9/18/07, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

>Folding, tearing, making it wet but the only non-destructive
>way I know would be a light table and a microscope or loupe.

Thanks Ernst.

I thought that perhaps there was something trivial that I had missed.


Best wishes,

-=-Dennis






















.

The non-destructive method:
  Picture an 8.5" x 11" sheet with the grain running along the 11" side when you hold it up from the 8.5" side it is stiffer then if you hold it from the 11" side. Hope this helps!
  Best, Charles 

"Dennis W. Manasco" <dmanasco@...> wrote:
          At 1:48 PM +0200 9/18/07, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

>Folding, tearing, making it wet but the only non-destructive
>way I know would be a light table and a microscope or loupe.

Thanks Ernst.

I thought that perhaps there was something trivial that I had missed.

Best wishes,

-=-Dennis

.


                         

       
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hold a sheet up by one corner. It curls in the direction of the grain,
for thinner papers at least.

Regards
Duane





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Charles Becker
<gypyjunior@...> wrote:
>
> The non-destructive method:
>   Picture an 8.5" x 11" sheet with the grain running along the 11"
side when you hold it up from the 8.5" side it is stiffer then if you
hold it from the 11" side. Hope this helps!
>   Best, Charles 
> 
> "Dennis W. Manasco" <dmanasco@...> wrote:
>           At 1:48 PM +0200 9/18/07, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> 
> >Folding, tearing, making it wet but the only non-destructive
> >way I know would be a light table and a microscope or loupe.
> 
> Thanks Ernst.
> 
> I thought that perhaps there was something trivial that I had missed.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> -=-Dennis
> 
> .
> 
> 
>                          
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone
who knows.

> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>