Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 9/27/07 11:08:18 AM, djon43@... writes:


> (can't look at a print and accurately diagnose .5 Cyan for example),
> 

Thats terminology from another era... "inkjetters" as you call them need to 
know when an RGB value is two points too red... "cc's of Magenta" have little 
meaning in the digital world. Now we live in RGB, and use L*a*b* as a universal 
color standard, with differences measured in Delta-Es. This red is 5 
delta-E97 from that red, this black is 2 L* lighter than that black, this paper white 
measures at -6 b*, so it must be artificially whitened. Those are the color 
distinctions of the digital imaging world. Please don't send them back to learn 
Latin and Greek!


C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com



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Good Advice, I have worn out several sets in my wet/darkroom days..

CLT

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: djon43 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:07 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] valuable for developing visual color skills


  280155734745 Ebay item...Kodak color viewing filters. 

  These are the best tools I know of for learning how to correct color,
  minimizing repeated test prints. 

  This is a B&W group but many of us print color as well. Inkjetters
  seem consistently unfamiliar with photographic color terminology
  (can't look at a print and accurately diagnose .5 Cyan for example),
  indicating that they also lack visual skills. Soft proofing only goes
  so far, no matter how wonderful the technology.



   


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David, So true, but I think for the average guys and gals trying to tackle
this, simple RGB and HSB values might bring it into focus faster; both are
readily available within PS. As not everyone has or will have a colormeter
but they most likely have an image editing software that can give them these
simple values. 

 

Eric 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CDTobie@...
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:23 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] valuable for developing visual color skills

 


In a message dated 9/27/07 11:08:18 AM, djon43@yahoo.
<mailto:djon43%40yahoo.com> com writes:

> (can't look at a print and accurately diagnose .5 Cyan for example),
> 

Thats terminology from another era... "inkjetters" as you call them need to 
know when an RGB value is two points too red... "cc's of Magenta" have
little 
meaning in the digital world. Now we live in RGB, and use L*a*b* as a
universal 
color standard, with differences measured in Delta-Es. This red is 5 
delta-E97 from that red, this black is 2 L* lighter than that black, this
paper white 
measures at -6 b*, so it must be artificially whitened. Those are the color 
distinctions of the digital imaging world. Please don't send them back to
learn 
Latin and Greek!

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com> .com
www.colorvision.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David, I understand your measurement orientation and your specific
product interest and I don't deny its current utility, given the
current state of inkjet technology. 

However, to the extent that we think about photography, and some of us
actually do, skilled eyes come into the equation and will remain
there, as products and technologies such as yours come and go.  

It seems to follow that you wouldn't/cannot dodge/burn visually,
locally adjust color by eye, make what you hope is a final print and
then tweak visually for final...the way color printing of all types
has always done. Is that right? Eyes are out? Lost arts?

It's interesting that you consider it Greek, that skilled printers can
accurately and consistently specify in numeric terms (CC) the specific
degree to which a print is red: That's been the main color analyzer
(Macbeth, Esco) sales pitch for decades. 


  

> 
> > (can't look at a print and accurately diagnose .5 Cyan for example),
> > 
> 
> Thats terminology from another era... "inkjetters" as you call them
need to 
> know when an RGB value is two points too red... "cc's of Magenta"
have little 
> meaning in the digital world. Now we live in RGB, and use L*a*b* as
a universal 
> color standard, with differences measured in Delta-Es. This red is 5 
> delta-E97 from that red, this black is 2 L* lighter than that black,
this paper white 
> measures at -6 b*, so it must be artificially whitened. Those are
the color 
> distinctions of the digital imaging world. Please don't send them
back to learn 

> Latin and Greek!
> 
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager

In a message dated 9/27/07 3:50:18 PM, djon43@... writes:


> David, I understand your measurement orientation and your specific
> product interest and I don't deny its current utility, given the
> current state of inkjet technology.
> 
> However, to the extent that we think about photography, and some of us
> actually do, skilled eyes come into the equation and will remain
> there, as products and technologies such as yours come and go. 
> 

Agreed, but the units and concepts that are most appropriate for digital 
imaging are RGB, Lab, and Delta-E. This is as true for visual stuff as measured 
stuff. I could choose to use Pantone values as a system for defining color, but 
they are totally unrelated to RGB values, have no logic in Lab, and aren't 
defined on any Delta-E grid, so they would be an inapropiate choice for my usage 
(they would be very useful if my usage was to produce spot color inks for 
offset printing). I feel the same way about "5 ccs too magenta" methodology, 
though it does have a visual teaching method built into it that could be valuable. 
Developing a digital version of that, labeled in current units, would be a 
good project for someone with an interest in visual discernment training, and an 
excellent Photoshop plugin...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


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