Digital BW, The Print

There is a Santa Claus and he's early!

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0710/07100401epsonr1900.asp

Cheers,
André

Looks to me like Epson may have broken their ties with Wilhelm 
Reasearch.

Check out this footnote from the dpreview article:



* Phenomenon where one colour looks different under different light 
sources
** Light source: Fluorescent light, Intensity: 70,000 lux. 
Temperature : 24¡æ, Humidity : 60% RH
Glass mount: 2mm, soda lime. Fade criteria: Pure YMC 30% Loss at OD=.
Display-life Calculation: Total illuminance/(500 lux x 10 hours x 365 
days = 1 year).
The data is calculated using Epson's accelerated test and does not 
mean Epson guarantees lightfastness.
Tests developed and conducted by Epson.
*** Standard ISO Bike image 11x14" used
 
--------------------------------------------

Also, nothing on the Wilhelm site that I could find, mentionin g this 
new printer.

Interesting...

Scott


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andre Moreau" 
<andre1moreau@...> wrote:

>
> There is a Santa Claus and he's early!
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0710/07100401epsonr1900.asp
> 
> Cheers,
> Andr¨¦
>

I doubt Epson is doing their own tests. Perhaps it is still Wilhelm?
Mark

On Oct 4, 2007, at 10:03 AM, scott_now_coming wrote:

> The data is calculated using Epson's accelerated test and does not
> mean Epson guarantees lightfastness



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent.  I was afraid the R1800 might be a dead end, but it’s clearly
not.  So, my 3-MK workflow seems to be secure.

 

With respect to the fade testing, Epson has done their own in the past also.
I don’t think it necessarily signals a break with Wilhelm.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andre
Moreau
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:59 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Epson Stylus Photo R1900

 

There is a Santa Claus and he's early!

http://www.dpreview
<http://www.dpreview.com/news/0710/07100401epsonr1900.asp>
.com/news/0710/07100401epsonr1900.asp

Cheers,
André

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Excellent.  I was afraid the R1800 might be a dead end, but it's clearly
> not.  So, my 3-MK workflow seems to be secure.
> 

Lets hope that the mechanical problems which plague the R800/1800 have
been fixed.  Particulary, the paper feed mechanism.  I go through
every Ango-Saxon work I know every time I try to print.

Steve

It's about time Epson stopped mentioning Wilhelm. 

There's no basis in anybody's experience that Wilhelm's info is
meaningful, which properly puts Epson and any photographer who has
used Wilhelm's "archival" numbers at serious litigation risk.

Might be nice for Epson to pay Wilhelm to get out of the business and
start themselves to take responsibility for such research, but just as
with photographers, it'd be stupid of Epson to keep claiming "x"
number of years.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@...> wrote:

>
> Looks to me like Epson may have broken their ties with Wilhelm 
> Reasearch.
> 
> Check out this footnote from the dpreview article:
> 
> 
> 
> * Phenomenon where one colour looks different under different light 
> sources
> ** Light source: Fluorescent light, Intensity: 70,000 lux. 
> Temperature : 24¡æ, Humidity : 60% RH
> Glass mount: 2mm, soda lime. Fade criteria: Pure YMC 30% Loss at OD=.
> Display-life Calculation: Total illuminance/(500 lux x 10 hours x 365 
> days = 1 year).
> The data is calculated using Epson's accelerated test and does not 
> mean Epson guarantees lightfastness.
> Tests developed and conducted by Epson.
> *** Standard ISO Bike image 11x14" used
>  
> --------------------------------------------
> 
> Also, nothing on the Wilhelm site that I could find, mentionin g this 
> new printer.
> 
> Interesting...
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andre Moreau" 
> <andre1moreau@> wrote:
> >
> > There is a Santa Claus and he's early!
> > 
> > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0710/07100401epsonr1900.asp
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Andr¨¦
> >
>

Why doubt it? The techniques are public domain, common, done by paint
companies (for example) forever. Not big science. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:

>
> I doubt Epson is doing their own tests. Perhaps it is still Wilhelm?
> Mark
> 
>

Isn't it a case of the fox guarding the henhouse?

On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:16 PM, djon43 wrote:

> Why doubt it? The techniques are public domain, common, done by paint
> companies (for example) forever. Not big science.
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@...> wrote:
>>
>> I doubt Epson is doing their own tests. Perhaps it is still Wilhelm?
>> Mark
>>

Paul,

Any progress on the 1400? I didn't see any mention of it on your web-
site.
Thanks,

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Excellent.  I was afraid the R1800 might be a dead end, but it's 
clearly
> not.  So, my 3-MK workflow seems to be secure.
> 
>  
> 
> With respect to the fade testing, Epson has done their own in the 
past also.
> I don't think it necessarily signals a break with Wilhelm.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Andre

> Moreau
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:59 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Epson Stylus Photo R1900
> 
>  
> 
> There is a Santa Claus and he's early!
> 
> http://www.dpreview
> <http://www.dpreview.com/news/0710/07100401epsonr1900.asp>
> .com/news/0710/07100401epsonr1900.asp
> 
> Cheers,
> André
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Absolutely. Wilhelm's no god, that's for sure, but he knows a hell of
alot more than Epson does. They probably are mad as hell that HP
kicked their butt in more ways than one, Canon too, and obviously the
new "vibrant magenta" didn't cut the muster, it makes sense for them
to kill the messinger. They'll come back cause he keeps on kicking. 




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:

>
> Isn't it a case of the fox guarding the henhouse?
> 
> On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:16 PM, djon43 wrote:
> 
> > Why doubt it? The techniques are public domain, common, done by paint
> > companies (for example) forever. Not big science.
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> > <mark@> wrote:
> >>
> >> I doubt Epson is doing their own tests. Perhaps it is still Wilhelm?
> >> Mark
> >>
>

Mark....all oem's do in house testing....

john dean <deanwork2003@...m> wrote:          Absolutely. Wilhelm's no god, that's for sure, but he knows a hell of
alot more than Epson does. They probably are mad as hell that HP
kicked their butt in more ways than one, Canon too, and obviously the
new "vibrant magenta" didn't cut the muster, it makes sense for them
to kill the messinger. They'll come back cause he keeps on kicking. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:
>
> Isn't it a case of the fox guarding the henhouse?
> 
> On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:16 PM, djon43 wrote:
> 
> > Why doubt it? The techniques are public domain, common, done by paint
> > companies (for example) forever. Not big science.
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> > <mark@> wrote:
> >>
> >> I doubt Epson is doing their own tests. Perhaps it is still Wilhelm?
> >> Mark
> >>
>



                         

       
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Could someone explain what the advantages of this printer are over the
current R1800 & R2400?  

How expensive will the UltraChrome High Gloss 2 inks be?

Is it likely that the R1900 will be better than the 1800 for B&W
printing on matte papers?

If so, I'd consider getting it.  The one major thing I don't like
about my R2400 is having to switch out the PK & MK cartridges for
glossy & matte paper.  If I could have a printer that handled B&W and
color very well on both matte and glossy papers, with no switching of
cartridges, that would be the one for me (assuming said printer costs
less than $700).

well, I for one, wanted to see and hear about peoples feeling about
the PRINTER called R1900, not an endless loop about the pros and cons
of light fastness from different labs.  I noticed that the R1900 is
not mentioned on any US sites, nor even the British site of Epson. 
DPReview sates the projected price for the new R1900 will be 400GBP,
which equated to about $817USD in todays conversion.  Thats a lot of
money for a simple upgrade from the R1800 to R1900.  The R2400 sells
for less than that.
So, my question is: How am I to justify the double in price for this
new printer?  Wouldn't I be better off to buy the old R1800 for $300
USD or the R2400 for $700?  Is there an R2500 in the near future?

Uncle Dannie

Native Texan Photographer wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> well, I for one, wanted to see and hear about peoples feeling about
> the PRINTER called R1900, not an endless loop about the pros and cons
> of light fastness from different labs. I noticed that the R1900 is
> not mentioned on any US sites, nor even the British site of Epson.
> DPReview sates the projected price for the new R1900 will be 400GBP,
> which equated to about $817USD in todays conversion. Thats a lot of
> money for a simple upgrade from the R1800 to R1900. The R2400 sells
> for less than that.
> So, my question is: How am I to justify the double in price for this
> new printer? Wouldn't I be better off to buy the old R1800 for $300
> USD or the R2400 for $700? Is there an R2500 in the near future?
> 
> Uncle Dannie
> 

Remember UK prices are a lot higher(Due to VAT as well as higher base 
pricing before taxes). Expect the R1900 to be closer to $400US than 
400GBP in the US.

-Adam

Adam Maas wrote:
> 
> 
> Native Texan Photographer wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > well, I for one, wanted to see and hear about peoples feeling about
>  > the PRINTER called R1900, not an endless loop about the pros and cons
>  > of light fastness from different labs. I noticed that the R1900 is
>  > not mentioned on any US sites, nor even the British site of Epson.
>  > DPReview sates the projected price for the new R1900 will be 400GBP,
>  > which equated to about $817USD in todays conversion. Thats a lot of
>  > money for a simple upgrade from the R1800 to R1900. The R2400 sells
>  > for less than that.
>  > So, my question is: How am I to justify the double in price for this
>  > new printer? Wouldn't I be better off to buy the old R1800 for $300
>  > USD or the R2400 for $700? Is there an R2500 in the near future?
>  >
>  > Uncle Dannie
>  >
> 
> Remember UK prices are a lot higher(Due to VAT as well as higher base
> pricing before taxes). Expect the R1900 to be closer to $400US than
> 400GBP in the US.
> 
> -Adam
> 

Actually, I just looked it up. The R1800 lists for 398GBP on epson.co.uk 
and $549USD on epson.com. Looks like the R1900 is exactly the same price.

-Adam

I don't think Epson's guarding its own henhouse if it
publicizes its methodology for others to test. That's
basic to science. If they don't do that we should just
assume the info is a best guess.

>Lets hope that the mechanical problems which plague the R800/1800 have
>been fixed. Particulary, the paper feed mechanism. I go through
>every Ango-Saxon work I know every time I try to print.

This is not an exclusive problem related to the R800/1800 printers.

I have had paper feed problems with the 2200, 2400, and 3800 particularly
with matte papers. With the 2200 and 2400 they became so acute that I
ditched the printer for the latest model. Not sure where I will go when the
3800 gags more seriously.

Dave.

-- 
Portfolio: www.david-keenan.com/portfolio
Web Site: www.david-keenan.com
2007 PAW: www.david-keenan.com/paw


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Scott,

> Any progress on the 1400? I didn't see any mention of it on 
> your web-site.

I'll have time to look at one mid-month.  I've heard conflicting reports as
to how similar it is to the R260.  I'm hoping the basic R260 inkset
(http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/R260.htm) works on it as it.  I assume
re-linearization will be needed.

I'll let people here know as soon as I have a chance to test one with the
R260 inkset.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I have not worked with enough samples of these printers to be sure of this,
but I think the R1800 is a little better than the R800 with respect to paper
feed.  Still, even with some Epson Premier Art Scrapbook (205 gsm)
yesterday, I had to feed one page at a time into the 1800 when making
multiple prints.

 

I have a spray bottle of Ace hardware janitorial strength ammonia that I
spray onto the middle right of an EEM and feed through the printer
occasionally to clean the rollers.  That helps (but stinks up the office a
bit).

 

I have mixed feelings about the R260's amazingly better feed (no problems
with any paper less than 315 gsm).  If they could only achieve this with the
lower smoothness I see in the 100% carbon printing, I'm not sure it's worth
it for what I want to do.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen
Kobrin
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:07 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Stylus Photo R1900

 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Excellent. I was afraid the R1800 might be a dead end, but it's clearly
> not. So, my 3-MK workflow seems to be secure.
> 

Lets hope that the mechanical problems which plague the R800/1800 have
been fixed. Particulary, the paper feed mechanism. I go through
every Ango-Saxon work I know every time I try to print.

Steve

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris;

We R1800 owners are HOPING the advantages over the 1800 will be better 
paper handling, and NO MICROBANDING (please Dear God!) As for no-swap 
B&W printing, you will still have to use QTR, and exchange at least the 
gloss for an LK or MK depending on the system you opt for. Of course, 
you could have no-swap gloss & matt printing now with your R2400-if you 
were willing to give up ABW.

I do a lot of sepia printing, the orange sounds very interesting for 
that-variable sepiatone with only one color to mix?


I have to say I'm a bit miffed at having this anounced less than a week 
after I preicted Epson wouldn't make a successor to the R1800. I 
suspected something was up when I noticed 2 days ago the rebate for the 
R1800 has gone up to $100.00

Steve Karafyllakis

>
> Could someone explain what the advantages of this printer are over the
> current R1800 & R2400?  
> 
> How expensive will the UltraChrome High Gloss 2 inks be?
> 
> Is it likely that the R1900 will be better than the 1800 for B&W
> printing on matte papers?
> 
> If so, I'd consider getting it.  The one major thing I don't like
> about my R2400 is having to switch out the PK & MK cartridges for
> glossy & matte paper.  If I could have a printer that handled B&W and
> color very well on both matte and glossy papers, with no switching of
> cartridges, that would be the one for me (assuming said printer costs
> less than $700).
>

On Oct 5, 2007, at 6:46 AM, Steven Karafyllakis wrote:

> [snip] I have to say I'm a bit miffed at having this anounced less  
> than a week after I preicted Epson wouldn't make a successor to the  
> R1800. [snip]

I can't find this announcement or another mention of an R1900 on  
Epson's U.S. web site. But I'd like to start to track the information  
released about it at least until more is known about it. I hope  
someone can post a useful URL for that. Thanks.
--
Sam

On Oct 5, 2007, at 7:45 AM, Sam McCandless wrote:

> On Oct 5, 2007, at 6:46 AM, Steven Karafyllakis wrote:
>
>> [snip] I have to say I'm a bit miffed at having this anounced less
>> than a week after I preicted Epson wouldn't make a successor to the
>> R1800. [snip]
>
> I can't find this announcement or another mention of an R1900 on
> Epson's U.S. web site. But I'd like to start to track the information
> released about it at least until more is known about it. I hope
> someone can post a useful URL for that. Thanks.
> --
> Sam

Paul Roark also responded to Steve's post, and in his response, Paul  
posted the URL at which dpreview quoted an Epson press release for  
Britain. There's a more-information link to Epson, and from there to  
Epson USA, as well as other regions, but, at least in the case of  
Epson USA, there's no R1900 information there yet. But thanks to Paul  
for the link to the info now available on the R1900.
--
Sam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>We R1800 owners are HOPING the advantages over the 1800 
>will be better paper handling, and NO MICROBANDING (please Dear God!)...

I'll second that.

>... the orange sounds very interesting for 
> that-variable sepiatone with only one color to mix?

The color arrangement of the 1900 sounds very interesting: 

"... cyan, magenta and yellow inks, ... red, orange ...
The new orange ink replaces the blue ink ...
It allows ... significant enhancements in colour reproduction 
for natural skin tones. Output also features more vivid oranges 
and an expansion in the red colour gamut. 
The magenta and yellow inks have been reformulated ...
The resin coating ... has been redesigned..."
(http://www.dpreview.com/news/0710/07100401epsonr1900.asp)

It sounds like this is a really new inkset and color scheme.  It'll be
interesting to see what exactly they've done and how they'll map RGB input
signals to their inks.  It does not sound, however, like they've added what
I'd like to see -- a blue that as a single toner offsets the carbon tone.  I
also think they still face the same problem with low gamut neutral tones.
I'd like to see these new colors wrapped around a carbon core.  Maybe we'll
get that when they come out with a 12-channel head.  Then again, I don't
need much these days for the B&W I prefer.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com