Digital BW, The Print

This group seems to be very Epson-centric.  Both the Canon PIXMA
Pro9500 and the HP B9180 have gotten some good reviews.  (See the
current Shutterbug magazine for a review of the Canon.)  Are any of
the subscribers to this group using these new printers?  Or are the
Epson products just that much better?

Thanks, Kurt Kramer

PS: I had a bad experience with a promised Epson rebate and am kind of
Epson-averse as a result.

In a message dated 10/27/07 3:46:08 PM, k.kramer@... writes:


> This group seems to be very Epson-centric.  Both the Canon PIXMA
> Pro9500 and the HP B9180 have gotten some good reviews.  (See the
> current Shutterbug magazine for a review of the Canon.)  Are any of
> the subscribers to this group using these new printers?  Or are the
> Epson products just that much better?
> 
I've spent time profiling and printing with both of these printers. Neither 
one offers two grays, as the Epson 2400/3800 etc... do. The HP B9180 prints its 
light grays, in color mode, using CMY inks, so the consistancy of its   
neutrality inevitably suffers. In grayscale mode, it uses only its one gray and two 
black inks (one black, on some media). This produces less tonal shift, but 
stretches the single gray ink all the way to white. 

The PRO9500 has only a single gray and should suffer similarly, but I fail to 
be able to detect any tonal shifts in grayscale prints made in the color 
mode. This makes me quite curious about how grays are printed in this mode. 
Results are very detailed, very smooth, and very consistantly neutral, quite similar 
to Epson two-gray prints made in color mode with a B&W profile. However, the 
PRO9500 lacks the Red, Green, and Blue inks in the wideformat Canons, and the 
reds available on art paper from Canon's Magenta and Yellow inks are very 
dull. 

Its great to see HP and Canon making significant challenges to Epson's 
market, but I depending on your printing methods, and expectations, in this size 
range the Epsons are still ahead in some details.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sites like this one (and Photo.net), when they have lots of
participants, seem far more meaningful than reviews, especially Vs
mags like Shutterbug. 

Here are Yahoo's Canon groups

http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=canon+printer. 

I've not visited them. 

I have visited the HP groups and it appears there are hardly any users
as serious as those on this group. 

Canon's probably will be taken serious eventually ... recent
professionally-targeted Rangefinder Magazine ads (typically more
useful than Rangefinder reviews) suggest Canon's serious this time,or
will be if they stick with it.  

The ultimate way to evaluate printers is to risk owning one or to know
somebody well, who uses them intensively...Epsons, even the worst of
them, seem sure things. 

That rebates are a greater concern than consensus is a non-photo
issue. I think the European court decision was ridiculous.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Kramer"
<k.kramer@...> wrote:

>
> This group seems to be very Epson-centric.  Both the Canon PIXMA
> Pro9500 and the HP B9180 have gotten some good reviews.  (See the
> current Shutterbug magazine for a review of the Canon.)  Are any of
> the subscribers to this group using these new printers?  Or are the
> Epson products just that much better?
> 
> Thanks, Kurt Kramer
> 
> PS: I had a bad experience with a promised Epson rebate and am kind of
> Epson-averse as a result.
>

I use numerous Epson printers for various projects, including R1800, 
R260, 3000, 1280, and a couple of C-88's.  This are used for producing 
heat transfers and dye-sublimation projects. The R260 and R1800 are 
also used for photography projects and for direct printing on DVD's.  I 
also have a Okidata color laser for routine correspondance and proof 
images.  I am experimenting with an HP Photosmart 8750, but not doing 
very well yet.  However, I must admit that there are far more sites 
devoted to Epson's and their profiles, rips, color corrections and 
testing, than any other brand.  And don't even get me started with the 
wide format and/or the fine art printers from Epson that produce such 
gorgeous prints.

Me? I'm just a simple SignMaker that trys to daubles in fine art 
photography as a hobby, but in my experience, Epson rules the inkjet 
world at present.  I am, of course, keeping my eye on the new Canon and 
HP pro-level printers.  Clogged heads are driving me crazy at times, so 
these new printers are a welcome sight.  I only hope they can catch up 
to Epson's versatality.

Uncle Dannie