Digital BW, The Print

I feel that I can get a very lovely light silvery tone.
I'm looking at a C80 OEM ink print.

The tonal range is correct but it feels purple to me (I'm not a fan 
of selenium).  That's how I feel/felt about selenium toned silver 
prints which is why I'm always miffed when people on the list say 
that's what they're looking for!

I've consistently had prints, when not right on, be green with 
certain space settings, purple cast if nearly neutral on bright white 
papers or very warm brown tone on watercolors.

Not yet to a monochrome set of inks.  Trying hard to not 'giclee' ;-) 
right now, want to see what's on the 6-month horizon printer/ink wise.


Perhaps not a clear statement nor question.

Cleavis

on 2/1/02 11:59 PM, lyonscox wrote:

> I feel that I can get a very lovely light silvery tone.
> I'm looking at a C80 OEM ink print.
> 
> The tonal range is correct but it feels purple to me (I'm not a fan
> of selenium).  That's how I feel/felt about selenium toned silver
> prints which is why I'm always miffed when people on the list say
> that's what they're looking for!
> 
> I've consistently had prints, when not right on, be green with
> certain space settings, purple cast if nearly neutral on bright white
> papers or very warm brown tone on watercolors.
> 
> Not yet to a monochrome set of inks.  Trying hard to not 'giclee' ;-)
> right now, want to see what's on the 6-month horizon printer/ink wise.
> 
> 
> Perhaps not a clear statement nor question.


Cleavis, Cleavis, Cleavis,

Pretty clear statement to me. You're messing around with color inks, trying
all kinds of crazy profiles and driver settings, with inks that are probably
metameric, and wondering why you don't get a predictable color for grayscale
images.

Sounds pretty normal - I'm sure we've all done it...

It gets boring after a while, but you're still in the fun stage of it, so
enjoy. ;-)

Todd

Todd,

Yeah, I know.
(out West we have time for this kind of thing, 'yeah' ;-) )

If one were trying to get a plain or constant gray/tone then a 
monochrome set is correct.  You accept the base tone chosen by 
inkset, whether that be lamp black or another.  

I know you understand blacks come in different shades of color too.  
This is equivalent to choosing Ilford Galerie (silver) paper vs. Afga 
Portriga.  Cool vs. a warm with the warm having more latitudes it can 
render.

When people are saying they want a selenium tone look, or anything 
other than the constant tone provided by a monochrome set they will 
have to use color inks (or at least a two tone set, hence MIS VM).

___________
My question was pointing at what's in a profile, or 'space' dialogue 
box that sends the same base information (the image), to the same 
inkset, on the same paper but results in a different tone bias.  
Admittedly this would only be a color/multi tone problem.

Would it be any different to use a single 'profile' (say "Generic 
Gray or Adobe RGB 1998), leave color controls ON and use the sliders 
appropriately?
___________

Since I am finding the profiles have a consistent bias, I also find 
it possible to correct by simply adding a color screen layer which 
shifts the color the desired direction.  Those in the A3 exchange 
will have an example.

I don't give a hoot about metamerism.  All artwork in all media look 
different in different lights.  A good image will survive poor 
display conditions.

Love Frederick Sommer's quote - "Enthusiasm is the duty of 
understanding before the night fatal to remembrance"

Enthusiastically (& chatty)
Cleavis :-)

Who is working towards having color and B/W systems.

Just as a point of information, I am told that Cone is releasing the selenium color and neutral color (May be the same, I am not sure) next week at PMA.

Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: lyonscox 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 11:05 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Inks have magenta bias in driver?


  Todd,

  Yeah, I know.
  (out West we have time for this kind of thing, 'yeah' ;-) )

  If one were trying to get a plain or constant gray/tone then a 
  monochrome set is correct.  You accept the base tone chosen by 
  inkset, whether that be lamp black or another.  

  I know you understand blacks come in different shades of color too.  
  This is equivalent to choosing Ilford Galerie (silver) paper vs. Afga 
  Portriga.  Cool vs. a warm with the warm having more latitudes it can 
  render.

  When people are saying they want a selenium tone look, or anything 
  other than the constant tone provided by a monochrome set they will 
  have to use color inks (or at least a two tone set, hence MIS VM).

  ___________
  My question was pointing at what's in a profile, or 'space' dialogue 
  box that sends the same base information (the image), to the same 
  inkset, on the same paper but results in a different tone bias.  
  Admittedly this would only be a color/multi tone problem.

  Would it be any different to use a single 'profile' (say "Generic 
  Gray or Adobe RGB 1998), leave color controls ON and use the sliders 
  appropriately?
  ___________

  Since I am finding the profiles have a consistent bias, I also find 
  it possible to correct by simply adding a color screen layer which 
  shifts the color the desired direction.  Those in the A3 exchange 
  will have an example.

  I don't give a hoot about metamerism.  All artwork in all media look 
  different in different lights.  A good image will survive poor 
  display conditions.

  Love Frederick Sommer's quote - "Enthusiasm is the duty of 
  understanding before the night fatal to remembrance"

  Enthusiastically (& chatty)
  Cleavis :-)

  Who is working towards having color and B/W systems.



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