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Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-18 by Richard Smallfield

Sorry to ask about this, but I can't find any information on it.

Is it really really necessary to store CDs and DVDs in acid-free storage?

DVDs, especially, are encased in plastic - so I would imagine they are pretty impervious to pollutants. Whether the top of CDs are vulnerable to acids is possibly a more plausible question as they don't have the extra plastic layer.

Again, feel free to flame me for posting on this!

thanks,
Richard
--
Backroads Essay:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/TheBackroadsOfWarkworth
Greeting Cards available for purchase:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/GreetingCards
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com
http://smallfield.vze.com

   "Do all the good you can,
   By all the means you can,
   In all the ways you can,
   In all the places you can,
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   To all the people you can,
   As long as ever you can."
   ---John Wesley

Re: [Digital BW] Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-18 by Peter Marquis-Kyle

Richard Smallfield wrote:
> Sorry to ask about this, but I can't find any information on it.
> 
> Is it really really necessary to store CDs and DVDs in acid-free storage?
> 
> DVDs, especially, are encased in plastic - so I would imagine they are pretty impervious to pollutants. Whether the top of CDs are vulnerable to acids is possibly a more plausible question as they don't have the extra plastic layer.
> 
> Again, feel free to flame me for posting on this!

No flames from me, Richard. It's off topic, but of vital interest. These 
  issues have been discussed on the photo conservation mailing list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/photoconservation/

In brief, the boffins seem to be saying that CDs and DVDs are quite 
vulnerable to damage by inappropriate storage. Even the standard jewel 
cases, which I had understood were OK, turn out to be hazardous because 
of out-gassing from the flexible plastic insert (the bit with the 
springy hub): 
http://www.conservation-by-design.co.uk/corrosioninterceptpdfs/CD-Insertfinalreport.pdf

Peter Marquis-Kyle

Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-18 by brouwerkent

Richard

I have made the decision that hard drives have become so inexpensive that for backup...just 
buy a drive...and turn it off and set it aside.  Cheap , faster...and unless I am mistaken...just 
as archival.  I bought a 500 gig recently in California for 75 bucks...cheap enough to set on 
the shelf as backup solution.

I would love to hear others comments on if there is a problem with my solution...it sure is 
quicker than burning to disk...painless really.

Phil

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-18 by Kip Babington

I'm considering doing that once I run out of my current supply of gold 
CDs.  But now I can burn 2 disks, and put one in another house for added 
security.  That would be a lot less convenient than managing a pair of 
large disks, not to mention whatever risk there is in moving one of 
those disks from place to place.

Cheers,
Kip

brouwerkent wrote:
>
> Richard
>
> I have made the decision that hard drives have become so inexpensive 
> that for backup...just
> buy a drive...and turn it off and set it aside. Cheap , faster...and 
> unless I am mistaken...just
> as archival. I bought a 500 gig recently in California for 75 
> bucks...cheap enough to set on
> the shelf as backup solution.
>
> ___ 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-19 by Mark Savoia

My only question is were we all this religious with our negs? How many  
of us did the "archival thing" years ago? Is this overkill? Just  
curious - be honest.
Mark
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Dec 18, 2007, at 6:52 PM, Kip Babington wrote:

> I'm considering doing that once I run out of my current supply of gold
> CDs.  But now I can burn 2 disks, and put one in another house for  
> added
> security.  That would be a lot less convenient than managing a pair of
> large disks, not to mention whatever risk there is in moving one of
> those disks from place to place.
>
> Cheers,
> Kip
>
> brouwerkent wrote:
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> I have made the decision that hard drives have become so inexpensive
>> that for backup...just
>> buy a drive...and turn it off and set it aside. Cheap , faster...and
>> unless I am mistaken...just
>> as archival. I bought a 500 gig recently in California for 75
>> bucks...cheap enough to set on
>> the shelf as backup solution.
>>
>> ___
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and  
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the  
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
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> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE  
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH  
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE  
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR  
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP;  
> OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-19 by Eric Neilsen

Mark, It is either the beauty or curse of digital that a copy of yor work is
so easy to do that it would be a shame to lose it due to lack of simple
planning.  It is not however, just a simple matter is it? Migration of data
will be a big business. I had a relatively easy time writing my printing
notes on a card and putting them in an index box. Today, there are multiple
ways to edit, print, ink sets, paper, changes in paper and ink sets, RIPs,
drivers, etc, that the best you can hope for is an image hitting the page.  

 

I certainly did not make direct duplicates of all my negs but in making my
platinum prints I usually ended up with at least a positive from my
negative. Those would have represented only one avenue of my finished goods.
The prints would be the only way to get back to a new image of most of my
other negs of slides were lost to damage. 

 

Eric 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Savoia
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:20 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

 

My only question is were we all this religious with our negs? How many 
of us did the "archival thing" years ago? Is this overkill? Just 
curious - be honest.
Mark

_,_._,___ 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-19 by djon43

I wasn't religious about storage, but I was respectful of my film. All
 my negs from the late Sixties onward went into Savage or Agfa (very
nice) glassine sleeves. As a result they're in super condition
today...the few that went into polyethylene pages are iffy at best.
The old glassines are yellowing now so I transfer film to polyester
side-loading foldloc sleeves when it occurs to me. I bought a bunch of
vintage Hasselblad glassines recently, threw them out...coarse, scary.

For digital backup my files are all copied to a 750G Maxtor that's
entirely unplugged when I'm not backing. I'm more confident in two HDs
than I am in CD/DVDs. Backups don't have to do with "archival" IMO,
they have to do with avoidance of sudden loss. As well, the print
isn't the final object anymore IMO, it's the file. 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> My only question is were we all this religious with our negs? How many  
> of us did the "archival thing" years ago? Is this overkill? Just  
> curious - be honest.
> Mark
> 
> On Dec 18, 2007, at 6:52 PM, Kip Babington wrote:
> 
> > I'm considering doing that once I run out of my current supply of gold
> > CDs.  But now I can burn 2 disks, and put one in another house for  
> > added
> > security.  That would be a lot less convenient than managing a pair of
> > large disks, not to mention whatever risk there is in moving one of
> > those disks from place to place.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Kip
> >
> > brouwerkent wrote:
> >>
> >> Richard
> >>
> >> I have made the decision that hard drives have become so inexpensive
> >> that for backup...just
> >> buy a drive...and turn it off and set it aside. Cheap , faster...and
> >> unless I am mistaken...just
> >> as archival. I bought a 500 gig recently in California for 75
> >> bucks...cheap enough to set on
> >> the shelf as backup solution.
> >>
> >> ___
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> > this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> > to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> > from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and  
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
> > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the  
> > Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE  
> > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH  
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE  
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR  
> > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP;  
> > OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> > GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-19 by Tony Sleep

On 19/12/2007 Mark Savoia wrote:
> My only question is were we all this religious with our negs? How many
> of us did the "archival thing" years ago? Is this overkill?

Probably, yes. OTOH I have spent many dull days repairing scans of negs 
that are 20-30 years old and suffering from damage or deterioration, 
fungus being the usual culprit. The point is that - short of a fire or 
flood - film deterioration is progressive and up to a point repairable. 
That's why I have scanned some older material, to rescue it. But one dud 
bit in a file and it has gone forever; a hard drive failure can wipe out 
thousands of files. And drive failures are a common occurrence that has to 
be planned for.

I've never yet had a CD degrade in 10 years, but DVD I don't trust for 
acrhiving at all, having had several prove unreadable after a few months, 
or unreadable in any drive except the one that created them. These days I 
just use multiple hard disks and 3 copies of everything, 1 offsite.

The biggest risk is me accidentally deleting stuff through stupididty or 
confusion, and that has been the only way I have lost work - when moving 
collections around, upgrading disks etc. Months later I noticed a several 
hundred files missing, and of course by then they were missing from the 
backups too. That is something that never arose with film, it never 
reverted to unexposed!
-- 
Regards

Tony Sleep
http://tonysleep.co.uk

Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-19 by Jack

I think hard drives are the way to go too. Should be a reliable maker 
with a raid 1 confiquration with a good information window regarding 
when a drive is becoming unstable. Optical discs even under the best 
storage conditions scratch easily if dropped or mishandled.
Jack

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-19 by Mark Savoia

I hear that hard drives will be a thing of the past someday,  
everything stored on a chip. Being compact flash cards and secure  
digital cards are getting bigger, is it hard to believe that some day  
there will be 2TB cards to store files on?
Mark
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Dec 19, 2007, at 12:27 PM, Jack wrote:

> I think hard drives are the way to go too. Should be a reliable maker
> with a raid 1 confiquration with a good information window regarding
> when a drive is becoming unstable. Optical discs even under the best
> storage conditions scratch easily if dropped or mishandled.
> Jack
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and  
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the  
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE  
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH  
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE  
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR  
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP;  
> OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Digital BW] Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-19 by Jack

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia 
<mark@...> wrote:
>
> I hear that hard drives will be a thing of the past someday,  
> everything stored on a chip. Being compact flash cards and secure  
> digital cards are getting bigger, is it hard to believe that some 
day  
> there will be 2TB cards to store files on?
> Mark
> 
That's the part that requires "migration" as technology changes we 
must as well: now where did I put my 5 inch floppy drive?
Jack

Re: Very OT: Archival storage of backup CDs/DVDs

2007-12-19 by Mark Rogers

http://www.framedestination.com/CD_DVD_storage.html

Cheers,
Mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard 
Smallfield <r.smallfield@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry to ask about this, but I can't find any information on it.
> 
> Is it really really necessary to store CDs and DVDs in acid-free 
storage?
> 
> DVDs, especially, are encased in plastic - so I would imagine they 
are pretty impervious to pollutants. Whether the top of CDs are 
vulnerable to acids is possibly a more plausible question as they 
don't have the extra plastic layer.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Again, feel free to flame me for posting on this!
> 
> thanks,
> Richard
> --
> Backroads Essay:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/TheBackroadsOfWarkworth
> Greeting Cards available for purchase:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/GreetingCards
> http://photos.smallfield.vze.com
> http://smallfield.vze.com
> 
>    "Do all the good you can,
>    By all the means you can,
>    In all the ways you can,
>    In all the places you can,
>    At all the times you can,
>    To all the people you can,
>    As long as ever you can."
>    ---John Wesley
>

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