Digital BW, The Print

>> Yeah, darkrooms...I still have my enlarger after 15 years and I NEVER
>> had to replace anything on it. I wish I had the space in my new house
>> to set it up again and forget this digital mess.
>
> Scanners and/or digital cameras with enough
> resolution to make large prints are not cheap.  (But I remember my
> wet darkrooms and cameras and lenses weren't exactly cheap, either.)

Perhaps this will work itself out as the technology matures, but right  
now one of the most disturbing aspects of "digital printing" is the  
short life and throw-away nature of at least some of the equipment. My  
oldest 8x10 camera in use was manufactured no later than about 1925,  
my favorite 4x5 is from 1960, my favorite 120 is from 1960, and my  
favorite 35mm is from about 1980. They are not outdated. They  
accommodate contemporary lenses and films. On the other hand, my  
Olympus 5050Z, Minolta Xt, Sony DSC-V3 and Canon 350D show their age,  
and cannot produce the same quality as my Canon 5D.  In the digital  
world I don't buy an improved film... I have to buy an improved  
camera.  In my darkroom I have enlargers 20+ and 30+ years old. In my  
digital lightroom I have two moribund Epson printers, functioning  
printers dedicated to B&W and to color, and a "wide format" printer on  
order. All of these will probably die within five years. Epson doesn't  
even make it easy to replace the printing heads on $1000 printers,  
something that would extend their lives considerably. What a waste of  
resources!

One *plus* to digital printing that I have never seen mentioned is  
that (as nearly as I can tell) ordinary inkjet printing is  
"vegetarian" or even "vegan", while traditional photography as it is  
now practiced depends on gelatin. ...

Myron

Hey gang -

Just so you know what I use here:

Nikon FM2 , Epson 4990 scanner, Photoshop CS and soon, the 2400.  I  
am also happy to report that I STILL have my Macintosh G4, second  
generation that I purchased over, get this, 10 years ago, that does  
the job well, with a 300GB external hard drive. (OK, yes I do have a  
Macbook for the DVD burning when I need it).

Reading all your posts, I can say that everyone makes solid arguments  
and the bottom line truly is whatever makes you happy, what you are  
comfortable with, and what your needs are. I am not a commercial  
photographer, so I do not necessarily need polished prints  
(especially not with the acrylic image transfers). As I stated  
before, I am happy that I can bridge digital and traditional image  
making together with the use of film.

It's cool to read about the opinions and tests of new papers, inks  
and hardware so I am very grateful for this forum. Thank you, guys...

AnnMarie

AnnMarie Tornabene
www.annmarietornabene.net






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AnnMarie, With your new 2400 you should be able to make high enough quality
digital contact printing negatives fro silver gelatin printing, so start
converting that bathroom, closet, tool shed today! 

 

: ) 

 

Eric

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AnnMarie
Tornabene
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 10:49 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: ... on darkrooms

 

Hey gang -

Just so you know what I use here:

Nikon FM2 , Epson 4990 scanner, Photoshop CS and soon, the 2400. I 
am also happy to report that I STILL have my Macintosh G4, second 
generation that I purchased over, get this, 10 years ago, that does 
the job well, with a 300GB external hard drive. (OK, yes I do have a 
Macbook for the DVD burning when I need it).

Reading all your posts, I can say that everyone makes solid arguments 
and the bottom line truly is whatever makes you happy, what you are 
comfortable with, and what your needs are. I am not a commercial 
photographer, so I do not necessarily need polished prints 
(especially not with the acrylic image transfers). As I stated 
before, I am happy that I can bridge digital and traditional image 
making together with the use of film.

It's cool to read about the opinions and tests of new papers, inks 
and hardware so I am very grateful for this forum. Thank you, guys...

AnnMarie

AnnMarie Tornabene
www.annmarietornabene.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> AnnMarie, With your new 2400 you should be able to make high enough 
> quality
> digital contact printing negatives fro silver gelatin printing, so start
> converting that bathroom, closet, tool shed today!

Has anyone done this?  I've heard that you can make decent 
platinium/palladium prints, but that silver gelatin requires a 
higher-quality negative, such as provided by an imagesetter or film 
recorder.

But I honestly DON'T want to go back to the darkroom albeit my  
ranting. And I really don't think digi negs work with silver prints.

And I'll pass on the small room conversions, thanks! :D


AnnMarie

AnnMarie Tornabene
www.annmarietornabene.net

On Dec 23, 2007, at 1:26 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:

> AnnMarie, With your new 2400 you should be able to make high enough  
> quality
> digital contact printing negatives fro silver gelatin printing, so  
> start
> converting that bathroom, closet, tool shed today!
>
> : )
>
> Eric
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
>
> 4101 Commerce Street
>
> Suite 9
>
> Dallas, TX 75226
>
> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
>
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
> Skype ejprinter
>
> _____
>
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
> AnnMarie
> Tornabene
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 10:49 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: ... on darkrooms
>
> Hey gang -
>
> Just so you know what I use here:
>
> Nikon FM2 , Epson 4990 scanner, Photoshop CS and soon, the 2400. I
> am also happy to report that I STILL have my Macintosh G4, second
> generation that I purchased over, get this, 10 years ago, that does
> the job well, with a 300GB external hard drive. (OK, yes I do have a
> Macbook for the DVD burning when I need it).
>
> Reading all your posts, I can say that everyone makes solid arguments
> and the bottom line truly is whatever makes you happy, what you are
> comfortable with, and what your needs are. I am not a commercial
> photographer, so I do not necessarily need polished prints
> (especially not with the acrylic image transfers). As I stated
> before, I am happy that I can bridge digital and traditional image
> making together with the use of film.
>
> It's cool to read about the opinions and tests of new papers, inks
> and hardware so I am very grateful for this forum. Thank you, guys...
>
> AnnMarie
>
> AnnMarie Tornabene
> www.annmarietornabene.net
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 

AnnMarie Tornabene
www.annmarietornabene.net





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i use an epson r220 for silver print. the only thing i had to do is put a 3 filter in the enlarger. the epson r220 does not lay enough ink to block the light. By adding the filter, i was able to find r=255 g=89 b=33 combination to block the light. i'd like to get a 2200 because you can tell the driver to lay more ink on paper.
a lot of people are doing palladium prints. the use uv lights instead of an enlarger light.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Peter De Smidt 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 1:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: ... on darkrooms


  > AnnMarie, With your new 2400 you should be able to make high enough 
  > quality
  > digital contact printing negatives fro silver gelatin printing, so start
  > converting that bathroom, closet, tool shed today!

  Has anyone done this? I've heard that you can make decent 
  platinium/palladium prints, but that silver gelatin requires a 
  higher-quality negative, such as provided by an imagesetter or film 
  recorder.



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Digi negs work great with silver. I have a few prints in a gallery and they 
sell really good. They are even better because i used photoshop to improve 
the photo.
Like people said, chemicals is a disadvantage. Especially when i spill them 
on the bathroom floor and my wife is not too happy !!!
I usually do B&W work one a month. I print all my negs during the month and 
I have a stack of them. It costs me $12 in chemicals everytime + cost of 
paper. It's around 50 cents a sheet for fiber. A lot cheaper for resin 
coated.

PO

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "AnnMarie Tornabene" <fairy69@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: ... on darkrooms


But I honestly DON'T want to go back to the darkroom albeit my
ranting. And I really don't think digi negs work with silver prints.

And I'll pass on the small room conversions, thanks! :D


AnnMarie

AnnMarie Tornabene
www.annmarietornabene.net

On Dec 23, 2007, at 1:26 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:

> AnnMarie, With your new 2400 you should be able to make high enough
> quality
> digital contact printing negatives fro silver gelatin printing, so
> start
> converting that bathroom, closet, tool shed today!
>
> : )
>
> Eric
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
>
> 4101 Commerce Street
>
> Suite 9
>
> Dallas, TX 75226
>
> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
>
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
> Skype ejprinter
>
> _____
>
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> AnnMarie
> Tornabene
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 10:49 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: ... on darkrooms
>
> Hey gang -
>
> Just so you know what I use here:
>
> Nikon FM2 , Epson 4990 scanner, Photoshop CS and soon, the 2400. I
> am also happy to report that I STILL have my Macintosh G4, second
> generation that I purchased over, get this, 10 years ago, that does
> the job well, with a 300GB external hard drive. (OK, yes I do have a
> Macbook for the DVD burning when I need it).
>
> Reading all your posts, I can say that everyone makes solid arguments
> and the bottom line truly is whatever makes you happy, what you are
> comfortable with, and what your needs are. I am not a commercial
> photographer, so I do not necessarily need polished prints
> (especially not with the acrylic image transfers). As I stated
> before, I am happy that I can bridge digital and traditional image
> making together with the use of film.
>
> It's cool to read about the opinions and tests of new papers, inks
> and hardware so I am very grateful for this forum. Thank you, guys...
>
> AnnMarie
>
> AnnMarie Tornabene
> www.annmarietornabene.net
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

AnnMarie Tornabene
www.annmarietornabene.net





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

I concur with "le Globe Trotteur" using diginegs with silver works
fine. Besides his work that I have just looked at briefly, another is
 "Digital Negatives" by Ron Reeder and Brad Hinkel.
Patrick





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Le Globe
Trotteur" <unglobetrotteur@...> wrote:
>
> Digi negs work great with silver. I have a few prints in a gallery
and they 
> sell really good. They are even better because i used photoshop to
improve 
> the photo.
> Like people said, chemicals is a disadvantage. Especially when i
spill them 
> on the bathroom floor and my wife is not too happy !!!
> I usually do B&W work one a month. I print all my negs during the
month and 
> I have a stack of them. It costs me $12 in chemicals everytime +
cost of 
> paper. It's around 50 cents a sheet for fiber. A lot cheaper for resin 
> coated.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as 
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same 
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep 
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed
from 
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner and 
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT 
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU 
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER"
AND 
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED
OF THE 
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY 
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED
ACCESS TO OR 
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
CONDUCT OF ANY 

> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Also, check out PDN negative making from Mark Nelson.
   
  we made a wide variety of digital negatives using inkject papers then contact printed them to Ilford RC papers (because it was quicker). It was amazing how nice they turned out. Shortly i will be making some for alternative processes as well.
   
  On the subject of darkrooms, i have been doing traditional darkroom work for about 60 years, as i started when i was ten years old. Am in very good health, and still love the process.  There are a wide variety of options for us these days and folks can pick what there heart desires.
   
  However, it is true, the digital path is a slippy rabbit hole of updates and cost, but as a friend of mine says, "photography is not for the faint of wallet".
   
  regards,
  ann

Patrick Kealey <pjkealey@...> wrote:
          
I concur with "le Globe Trotteur" using diginegs with silver works
fine. Besides his work that I have just looked at briefly, another is
"Digital Negatives" by Ron Reeder and Brad Hinkel.
Patrick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Le Globe
Trotteur" <unglobetrotteur@...> wrote:
>
> Digi negs work great with silver. I have a few prints in a gallery
and they 
> sell really good. They are even better because i used photoshop to
improve 
> the photo.
> Like people said, chemicals is a disadvantage. Especially when i
spill them 
> on the bathroom floor and my wife is not too happy !!!
> I usually do B&W work one a month. I print all my negs during the
month and 
> I have a stack of them. It costs me $12 in chemicals everytime +
cost of 
> paper. It's around 50 cents a sheet for fiber. A lot cheaper for resin 
> coated.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as 
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same 
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep 
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed
from 
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner and 
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT 
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU 
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER"
AND 
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED
OF THE 
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY 
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED
ACCESS TO OR 
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
CONDUCT OF ANY 
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>



                         

       
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wouldn't have suggested it had I not done it, see it done, etc.  : )
There are many ways to do it. The Pictorico OHP is a good choice for both
negs intended for plat/pall, gum, cyanotype, etc as well as for silver.
There are didn't approaches to gaining the appropriate density and color of
the negs. Recently one instructor just realized that the color of the neg
really matters; Multi contrast papers as well as light sensitivity for
graded paper. 

 

Early on the black only approach would not give you enough density for most
alt process prints, but with the coming of age of digital printers the
ability to make negs right at home has become a reality.  There now are
multi position black ink sets( 6, 7, 8 ink sets) that allow even greater
density for making negs.  Dan Burkholder, Mark Nelson, and many others have
writings on some ways to do it. Dan was an early promoter of this. I have
not heard if he plans on coming out with any more books on it; after his
first and the revision of it. The computers and all the associated goodies
change too fast; better inks, better substrates, better ??? 

 

A few concepts to learn and then it is all up to the user. Ink sets  have UV
qualities as well as the substrate. If you can make good prints with an ink
jet printer, you can make good quality CONTACT negs. I would not try to
enlarge one yet but I fully expect that not too far way, a smooth output
will allow for enlarged prints.  With the new digital enlargers being the
next great cash hole for those looking to make silver gelatin prints, there
will be digital contact negs around for some time. 

 

Eric 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter De
Smidt
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:44 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: ... on darkrooms

 

> AnnMarie, With your new 2400 you should be able to make high enough 
> quality
> digital contact printing negatives fro silver gelatin printing, so start
> converting that bathroom, closet, tool shed today!

Has anyone done this? I've heard that you can make decent 
platinium/palladium prints, but that silver gelatin requires a 
higher-quality negative, such as provided by an imagesetter or film 
recorder.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> However, it is true, the digital path is a slippy rabbit hole of  
> updates and cost, but as a friend of mine says, "photography is not  
> for the faint of wallet".
>


Never truer words spoken.

James
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]