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HP B9180

HP B9180

2008-02-03 by djon43

http://www.inkjetart.com/hp/B9180/

This review seems convincing (as much as any review could be).
Inkjetart has been totally reliable in the past in their evaluations
of paper, ink, and printers.  

Check their  observations about carbon and comparison to 2400. I've
not been blown away by 2400 B&W work that I've seen...it's OK,
evidently easier for some to work with than 2200, but prints aren't
better on matte paper than 2200 used well. It's about time to retire
my 2200, time marches on...

Anybody here use HP B9180 ? What papers? Is your experience in line
with inkjetart's highly detailed review?

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-03 by Ernst Dinkla

djon43 wrote:
> http://www.inkjetart.com/hp/B9180/
> 
> This review seems convincing (as much as any review could be).
> Inkjetart has been totally reliable in the past in their evaluations
> of paper, ink, and printers.  
> 
> Check their  observations about carbon and comparison to 2400. I've
> not been blown away by 2400 B&W work that I've seen...it's OK,
> evidently easier for some to work with than 2200, but prints aren't
> better on matte paper than 2200 used well. It's about time to retire
> my 2200, time marches on...
> 
> Anybody here use HP B9180 ? What papers? Is your experience in line
> with inkjetart's highly detailed review? 

I do not have one but you should check what Neil Snape has 
written about it.

http://www.neilsnape.com/HP9180_review.htm

It doesn't have the gloss enhancer of a Z3100 but for the 
rest it is close in quality in color and B&W to the Z2100 
model but with a better image processing. The image 
processing and its dithering are second to none as I 
understand it. A friend bought it for his son but he can't 
let it go despite the fact that he has an Epson 9800 and a 
Canon iPF9000 in his shop. Loves the print quality for 
smaller prints.

There's a new very similar model introduced that should 
become cheaper than the B9180 in time. The B9180 is not that 
expensive either. The carts hold 27 ML each. Comparing the 
Epsons to it, the decision often falls for the 3800 because 
it comes loaded with more ink. No mention then on how much 
ink the last wastes in cleaning etc and black ink switches 
where the B9180 is frugal on inks. Counting all aspects 
including neutral B&W, gloss + matte, the integrated 
calibration and the excellent fade properties of the Vivera 
pigment the B9180 may be a better choice than the 3800 if A3 
is big enough.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-03 by Tony Sleep

On 03/02/2008 djon43 wrote:
> 
> Anybody here use HP B9180 ? What papers? Is your experience in line
> with inkjetart's highly detailed review? 

Yup I have had one for 2m. I dumped (literally, gave away) a 1290 with G4 
CIS and 1160 + Piezo BW CIS, both of which were endless trouble with 
interminable nozzle clogs and head replacements. Both were also 
distressingly fussy about paper type. The only paper I ever found that I 
was happy with on both was HPR. But I was never happy with the quality of 
the Cone output from the 1160 after the plugin was replaced by ICC 
profiles in the Epson driver. I just couldn't face buying another Epson, 
even though I know the 3800 is a vastly better and newer generation model. 
The PK/MK changeover nonsense is just kludgy and would not suit my 
conflicted taste for HPR + FB glossy at all.

With the HP the self-maintaining head technology is just wonderful, and an 
immediate feeling of liberation from Epson frustration[tm]. The cost is 
leaving the printer on 24/7 (consumes ~8w in standby). I can and do send 
prints to the printer without even thinking about nozzle checks or blocks, 
even after a couple of weeks disuse. I have never had a print spoiled by 
this printer, only by my mistakes. This is in utter contrast to the 
Epsons, where a 35% success rate was about right over the few years I 
owned them. They wasted about 2/3 the ink and expensive paper I put 
through them. I wasted just vast amounts of time messing about with 
Windex, nozzle checks, cleaning cycles and leaving overnight for the 
nozzle fairies to maybe magic the microbubbles away. In the end I got so 
sick of them I gave up and went to labs instead. I know lots of people 
will tell me 'oh, your own silly fault for using CIS and aftermarket 
inks'. Well, maybe, but at the time they were a better solution than the 
2100 or anything else, and on a good day the print quality was very good.

One thing Inkjetart don't mention is that the B9180 appears to manage to 
extract more prints from each ml. of inks than Epsons do. This doesn't 
make a lot of sense, but appears to be the case, although the 
insignificant waste expended in nozzle cleaning might be the explanation.

With colour printing the HP is very tolerant of papers, working well with 
all HP's advanced papers, HPR, Harman FB AL glossy (excellent) and matte, 
and Innova Fibaprint Ultra Smooth White Glossy - which is just a bit 
better than the Harman glossy, but a has very slight localised over-inking 
issue on some images that may be cured by profile tweaking. A suitably 
toned B&W using composite inks on this paper is very close to 1970's 
Record Rapid (before Agfa took out the Cadmium and ruined it), which is 
definitely my favourite darkroom paper of all time. Superb, sensual depth 
that I never expected to see from an inkjet. Even the surface is similar.

The Ilford papers do not work well with this printer, except for Fibre 
Gold Silk, which some people are liking a lot. I've not tried it.

With Black and Gray inks only, images are extremely neutral - almost too 
much so. I never got such neutrality from wet printing. But bronzing and 
GD are a problem with all gloss papers when using black & grey only. 
Unless you are going to lacquer gloss, black and grey isn't very useful 
there. It really only works well with matte and art papers, HPR is 
excellent. Dmax is much better and tones are smoother than I ever got from 
Piezo BW ICC in the 1160 (was disressingly 'dotty' in high tones).

But black + gray DMax is just noticeably less solid than with 
composite-colour printing, and metamerism with the latter is sufficiently 
low that I mostly prefer it. Composite prints on the Harman and Innova 
just look like real photographs, with only minimal GD saying that they are 
inkjets at all.

The HP's are not perfect though. Some people have premature failures of 
the printer, although they are built like a tank. Some have had multiple 
replacements, but I think this was with earlier production. Head crashes 
with the Harman FB are also a widespread problem, and this can damage the 
heads if severe. The Harman has a tendency to curl on receipt of ink, 
although flat enough before and after printing. I have had no such 
problems with it or any other paper though, at A3 size. It may help that I 
never print borderless.

Perhaps the most common issue is that the printer will sometimes load 
special media then spit it straight out again, telling you to load paper. 
This can happen repeatedly. A reboot fixes it until the next time. I 
haven't seen this since installing the latest firmware, but haven't 
printed much.

The HP PS plugin does not work with CS3, but I use Qimage anyhow and would 
never dream of printing from PS (ugh).

There is an active list for these printers at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hp9100Series - and it will be worth reading 
the archives to see the sort of issues that people have. The files list 
includes a fair range of good canned and user-donated custom profiles, and 
the nice thing about the HP's closed loop calibration is that this seems 
to be good enough for profiles to be portable - what works on one B9180 
will work near-identically on all B9180's.

Not quite perfect but so far my experience has been nothing but good, and 
the value is remarkable. It is a big sucker and needs a lot of space, 
behind as well for A3+ special media. A 17" tabletop sheet-feed version of 
the HP Z3100 with GLOP and onboard profiling is about the only replacement 
I'd consider for the B9180.

-- 
Regards

Tony Sleep
http://tonysleep.co.uk

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-03 by Harold Jackson

I don't have a B9180 but have an HP Z3100.  I've been following the discussions about B&W printing in this group and have to say that out of the box my HP printer is giving me superb tonal range without any special tweaking.  What I've benefited from in this group is the discussions on converting color to B&W and learning about some of the new papers that people are using for B&W printing.   
   
  I got away from using Epson's because of all of the clogging problems. Also, my experience with HP inks is that they last much longer than Epson inks.  Perhaps that is because my printer came with an on-board spectophotometer that creates very accurate profiles of the papers that I use but I just find that it uses far less inks than the Epson 4000 or 7800 that I formerly used.  My plan is to purchase a B9180 in the near future for smaller prints.  I recommend giving the HP a very close look. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-03 by Richard Smallfield

I've been intrigued by the reviews of this printer, especially the comparison of coloured pigments in the BW prints - far less than an Epson lays down.

However, it seems that one can't put overlong paper in this printer as I can with my Epson 2100 which makes it a non-starter for me. What a shame.

The max recommended length is 19". Has anyone actually been able to print longer than that?

thanks,
Richard
--
Backroads Essay:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/TheBackroadsOfWarkworth
Greeting Cards available for purchase:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/GreetingCards
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com
http://smallfield.vze.com

   "The grass is not, in fact, always greener on the other side 
   of the fence. No, not at all. Fences have nothing to do with it.
   The grass is greenest where it is watered. When crossing 
   over fences, carry  water with you and tend the grass wherever 
   you may be."
   --Robert Fulghum

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-04 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 2/3/08 10:47:59 AM, E.Dinkla@... writes:


> 
> There's a new very similar model introduced that should
> become cheaper than the B9180 in time.
> 

Yes, the B9280 was at PMA last week; along with lots of new digital SLRs...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all 
time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-04 by scott_now_coming

> Yes, the B9280 was at PMA last week..."> 

> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor
> CDTobie@...
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
> 


Really? Care to provide a link?

Thnaks,
Scott

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-04 by john dean

Look into Q-Image rip it supports the HPZ printers I know.

john


 
> The max recommended length is 19". Has anyone actually been able to
print longer than that?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> thanks,
> Richard
> --
> Backroads Essay:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/TheBackroadsOfWarkworth
> Greeting Cards available for purchase:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/GreetingCards
> http://photos.smallfield.vze.com
> http://smallfield.vze.com
> 
>    "The grass is not, in fact, always greener on the other side 
>    of the fence. No, not at all. Fences have nothing to do with it.
>    The grass is greenest where it is watered. When crossing 
>    over fences, carry  water with you and tend the grass wherever 
>    you may be."
>    --Robert Fulghum
>

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-04 by Richard Smallfield

Hi,
I've talked to the Qimage people about the 3800 and they said the paper length was still limited by the Epson driver. The 3800 does, however, allow up to 950mm I think.

The lack of coloured ink in the HP is something to behold however!

Richard

At 10:53 AM Tuesday 2/5/2008, you wrote:
>Look into Q-Image rip it supports the HPZ printers I know.
>
>john
>
>> The max recommended length is 19". Has anyone actually been able to
>print longer than that?

--
http://smallfield.vze.com

   "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. 
   Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful 
   men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost 
   a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated 
   failures. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."
   --Calvin Coolidge

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 2/4/08 6:13:37 PM, r.smallfield@... writes:


> The lack of coloured ink in the HP is something to behold however!
> 

The lack of colored ink in the HPs is both a strength, and a weakness. HP 
started by neutralizing all their black and gray inks. But since this is 
media-specific, that means they then had to "bless" only media which offer the same 
tonal response for these printers. If you use a different paper, you will get a 
different tonality. If you like that tint, thats great. If not, then you have 
few options but to pick another media. With Canon or Epson printers you can 
get any tint or neutrality on any media, but only at the cost of a small amount 
of color ink in the prints. Doesn't bother people much on a practical level, 
but it offends some on a theoretical level...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all 
time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 2/5/08 12:34:05 PM, deanwork2003@... writes:


> I'm not sure what you are saying David. The HP 12 channel Vivera
> inkset allows you to do both. Pure grey/black output with no hue
> mixing if you want that, or toned monochrome by adding color to those
> grey inks
> 

Unfortunately the way they mix grays in color mode uses CM&Y for the light 
grays, not gray ink, plus a minimum of CM&Y as Epson and Canon do... so the 
color mode is not acceptable for B&W printing, only the monochrome mode, meaning 
only one tint, no crosstints, and no adjustment of tints, without metamerism 
issues.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all 
time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 2/5/08 1:51:22 PM, deanwork2003@... writes:


> What about with the Image Print profiling solution they have available
> now? Is it mixing the light grey any differently? If not I certainly
> wonder why not.
> 
> 

Are you speaking of a third party RIP as a solution to whats missing in the 
driver? Thats certainly possible, but not anything many users will put up with; 
especially since the other competing products don't need a RIP to manage 
this...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all 
time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by Tony Sleep

On 05/02/2008 CDTobie@... wrote:
> Unfortunately the way they mix grays in color mode uses CM&Y for the 
> light
> grays, not gray ink, plus a minimum of CM&Y as Epson and Canon do... 
> so the
> color mode is not acceptable for B&W printing, only the monochrome 
> mode, meaning
> only one tint, no crosstints, and no adjustment of tints, without 
> metamerism
> issues.

Do you have a source for that? I don't believe it is the case. Here gray 
appears to be used in all modes, colour, composite B&W and black+gray 
only. The printer exhausts the gray cartridge faster than any other.

HPB9180 helpfile for 'Print in grayscale' says
'Composite gray ...cyan, magenta, yellow and neutral inks
  Gray inks only ... neutral inks only rendering'

O'reilly review p2 at http://tinyurl.com/397dlm says

'If you print B&W using composite, some colored inks are used. The primary 
reason for this is to control the bronzing effect on coated photo paper. 
If you were to print gray inks only on glossy stock, for example, the 
bronzing might be very noticeable.'
-- 
Regards

Tony Sleep
http://tonysleep.co.uk

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by amadou diallo

Just to make sure things aren't getting confused...David, you're talking
about the desktop HPs, right? John I think was talking about the Z series
and from the beginning HP has said that whether the driver is set to color
or grayscale, equal RGB values are printed with black and gray inks
exclusively. It's been a while since I pulled out the loupe, but some test
prints I did when the printer came out showed no difference in grayscale
files printed in either color or mono driver modes and no difference between
a grayscale print and a grayscale portion (equal RGB) of an otherwise color
image. The Canon IPF driver is a different story, and indeed the color
driver adds CMYs to a grayscale image. The grayscale driver supposedly does
not.

On 2/5/08, CDTobie@... <CDTobie@...> wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 2/5/08 1:51:22 PM, deanwork2003@...<deanwork2003%40yahoo.com>writes:
>
> > What about with the Image Print profiling solution they have available
> > now? Is it mixing the light grey any differently? If not I certainly
> > wonder why not.
> >
> >
>
> Are you speaking of a third party RIP as a solution to whats missing in
> the
> driver? Thats certainly possible, but not anything many users will put up
> with;
> especially since the other competing products don't need a RIP to manage
> this...
>
> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor
> CDTobie@... <CDTobie%40datacolor.com>
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
>
> **************
> Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all
> time on AOL Music.
>
> (
> http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548
> )
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>



-- 
amadou diallo
Author, Mastering Digital Black and White
www.masteringdigitalbwbook.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by Ernst Dinkla

CDTobie@... wrote:
> In a message dated 2/5/08 12:34:05 PM, deanwork2003@... writes:
> 
> 
>> I'm not sure what you are saying David. The HP 12 channel Vivera
>> inkset allows you to do both. Pure grey/black output with no hue
>> mixing if you want that, or toned monochrome by adding color to those
>> grey inks
>>
> 
> Unfortunately the way they mix grays in color mode uses CM&Y for the light 
> grays, not gray ink, plus a minimum of CM&Y as Epson and Canon do... so the 
> color mode is not acceptable for B&W printing, only the monochrome mode, meaning 
> only one tint, no crosstints, and no adjustment of tints, without metamerism 
> issues.
>

Is this about the B9180 ?  The Z3100 in the advanced B&W 
mode allows color toning on top of the neutral grey inks. 
Even color printing has such an extended black generation 
that in practice the light grey ink cart goes first and I 
see no hue dots in lightest steps with the microscope in 
neutral patches of a color print made with the Matte Litho 
Realistic media preset.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by Ernst Dinkla

Tony Sleep wrote:
> On 05/02/2008 CDTobie@... wrote:
>> Unfortunately the way they mix grays in color mode uses CM&Y for the 
>> light
>> grays, not gray ink, plus a minimum of CM&Y as Epson and Canon do... 
>> so the
>> color mode is not acceptable for B&W printing, only the monochrome 
>> mode, meaning
>> only one tint, no crosstints, and no adjustment of tints, without 
>> metamerism
>> issues.
> 
> Do you have a source for that? I don't believe it is the case. Here gray 
> appears to be used in all modes, colour, composite B&W and black+gray 
> only. The printer exhausts the gray cartridge faster than any other.
> 
> HPB9180 helpfile for 'Print in grayscale' says
> 'Composite gray ...cyan, magenta, yellow and neutral inks
>   Gray inks only ... neutral inks only rendering'
> 
> O'reilly review p2 at http://tinyurl.com/397dlm says
> 
> 'If you print B&W using composite, some colored inks are used. The primary 
> reason for this is to control the bronzing effect on coated photo paper. 
> If you were to print gray inks only on glossy stock, for example, the 
> bronzing might be very noticeable.'

Neil Snape's review mentions the use of CMY in the 
highlights of B&W printing on the B9180, more specific with 
  gloss printing than with matte printing. So that's 
different to the Z3100 that has 4 K inks aboard and doesn't 
use hues in greyscale if not intended.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 2/5/08 2:47:20 PM, E.Dinkla@... writes:


> Is this about the B9180 ?  The Z3100 in the advanced B&W
> mode allows color toning on top of the neutral grey inks.
> 

Yes, thats the Z3100, with two levels of gray. The B9180 (and for that matter 
the Z2100) have only one level of gray...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all 
time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 2/5/08 2:47:48 PM, TonySleep@... writes:


> 
> Do you have a source for that? I don't believe it is the case. Here gray
> appears to be used in all modes, colour, composite B&W and black+gray
> only. The printer exhausts the gray cartridge faster than any other.
> 

Only what the HP engineers told me: Gray mode uses the one gray plus 
black(s), color mode mixes light grays from colors. Thats not what I see on the "one 
gray" Canon PRO9500, but its what I was told about the B9180 and Z2100.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all 
time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 2/5/08 2:51:40 PM, amadiallo@... writes:


> Just to make sure things aren't getting confused...David, you're talking
> about the desktop HPs, right?
> 
Look at the title of this thread: HP B9180... if you are talking about other 
printers, change the subject line.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all 
time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 2/5/08 2:57:33 PM, E.Dinkla@... writes:


> > HPB9180 helpfile for 'Print in grayscale' says
> > 'Composite gray ...cyan, magenta, yellow and neutral inks
> >   Gray inks only ... neutral inks only rendering'
> 

Which could well mean neutrals in the dark grays only, which is what I was 
told...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all 
time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 2/5/08 2:57:33 PM, E.Dinkla@... writes:


> Neil Snape's review mentions the use of CMY in the
> highlights of B&W printing on the B9180
> 

Which would be an HP consultant backing up what I've been saying the HP 
engineers claimed...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all 
time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 2/5/08 2:57:33 PM, E.Dinkla@... writes:


> So that's
> different to the Z3100 that has 4 K inks aboard
> 

Please don't fall into the HP marketing parlance of how many "K" inks they 
have: it makes a great deal of difference in producing subtle, neutral grays 
whether a printer has one gray and two blacks, or two grays and one black. 
Similarly, two blacks (only one of which get used on some media) and two grays are 
not equal to having three levels of gray, though thats less of an issue.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


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Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-05 by Ernst Dinkla

CDTobie@... wrote:
> In a message dated 2/5/08 2:57:33 PM, E.Dinkla@... writes:
> 
> 
>> So that's
>> different to the Z3100 that has 4 K inks aboard
>>
> 
> Please don't fall into the HP marketing parlance of how many "K" inks they 
> have: it makes a great deal of difference in producing subtle, neutral grays 
> whether a printer has one gray and two blacks, or two grays and one black. 
> Similarly, two blacks (only one of which get used on some media) and two grays are 
> not equal to having three levels of gray, though thats less of an issue.

The media preset Fine Art > 250 grams in the B&W mode 
delivers simply a slightly higher Dmax on Photorag than the 
Matte Litho Realistic media preset, the first uses MK + PK + 
middle gray + light gray the last MK + middle gray and light 
gray. The gloss is and can only be done with PK + middle 
gray and light gray + as a choice gloss enhancer which 
deepens the PK.
I had my reservations whether that matte HP quad would 
deliver as I made a similar setup in the past on an Epson 
9000 and didn't see much gained by it other than filling in 
the MK head's flaws with the PK. But in HP's case it does. 
Of course it intrigued me why but on the other hand who 
cares as it delivers. Later I observed that the PK has a 
much lower density on some matte papers so it could well fit 
into the partitioning. HP added another quad media preset in 
their last firmware-driver upgrade that I didn't test. I do 
not think they advertised that one very loud, they just 
believe in its function. It is clear that HP didn't walk the 
worn path in R&D before the Photokina 2006 but in some 
aspects they still are ahead.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

Re: [Digital BW] HP B9180

2008-02-06 by Tony Sleep

On 05/02/2008 CDTobie@... wrote:
> 
> Only what the HP engineers told me: Gray mode uses the one gray plus
> black(s), color mode mixes light grays from colors. Thats not what I 
> see on the "one
> gray" Canon PRO9500, but its what I was told about the B9180 and 
> Z2100.

I think they misinformed you.

'While two K's K+lK are used on shiny stock they are also combining 
composite colours to extend the contrast range. The overall look B&W on 
photo media is rich and smooth.'

http://www.neilsnape.com/HP9180_review.htm


HP's usage stats for B&W composite printing (B9180) show the Gray 
cartridge is used most of all.

HP 38 Photo Black Pigment Ink Cartridge	Approximately 1410 4X6 Photos
HP 38 Magenta Pigment Ink Cartridge	Approximately 6900 4X6 Photos (estimated)
HP 38 Cyan Pigment Ink Cartridge	Approximately 5800 4X6 Photos (estimated)
HP 38 Yellow Pigment Ink Cartridge	Approximately 1470 4X6 Photos
HP 38 Light Magenta Pigment Ink Cartridge	Approximately 550 4X6 Photos
HP 38 Light Cyan Pigment Ink Cartridge	Approximately 1480 4X6 Photos
HP 38 Light Gray Pigment Ink Cartridge	Approximately 260 4X6 Photos
Supplemental cartridges
HP 38 Matte Black Pigment Ink Cartridge	Approximately 2900 4X6 Photos 
(estimated)

http://www.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/PSPB9180/photo.html
-- 
Regards

Tony Sleep
http://tonysleep.co.uk

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