Digital BW, The Print

has anyone had any experience with hand tinting inkjet prints using 
marshalls photo oils or pastels on either piezo selenium mps or sepia 
k7 inks?  just wanted to get some good paper recommendations.  i'm 
looking at medium to heavy weight warmtone matte papers with a smooth 
texture.  i'm thinking hahnemuhle museum etching maybe?  is there a 
better paper?  moab?  museo?

and also, what's the best prep varnish to use prior to coloring?  
gesso, acrylic satin varnish?  any ideas?

Please share any recommendations you get.  I used to do my own darkroom 
prints, usually on Agfa Portriga Rapid 118, later on Oriental Seagull when 
Portriga was no longer made. I too am trying to find good paper for 
hand-coloring digital prints with Marshalls and would appreciate hearing any 
comments and recommendations. I'm printing on an Epson 2200.

Thanks.
darlene

Darlene Lyon Kruse
Photographer / Mixed Media Artist
Ashland, Oregon USA

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "c1asia" <c1asia@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 1:31 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] paper for hand tinting on piezo prints


has anyone had any experience with hand tinting inkjet prints using
marshalls photo oils or pastels on either piezo selenium mps or sepia
k7 inks?  just wanted to get some good paper recommendations.  i'm
looking at medium to heavy weight warmtone matte papers with a smooth
texture.  i'm thinking hahnemuhle museum etching maybe?  is there a
better paper?  moab?  museo?

and also, what's the best prep varnish to use prior to coloring?
gesso, acrylic satin varnish?  any ideas?




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For what it's worth, the watercolorist I've been working with puts 
Arches Hot Press, un-coated watercolor paper at the top of her list.  
The paper will not print as smoothly as coated paper, nor have the deep 
dmax, but as a base for further painterly work, the combination of 
Arches and watercolors may be a very nice medium.  

The Eboni-6 is actually an outgrowth of a project to make a "workable" 
carbon-to-watercolor mixed media.  Unique partitioning of a K6 can 
optimize the smoothness.  The dmax can be in the 1.5+ range, depending 
on printer and workflow.  

I, unfortunately, failed to achieve one goal of the "workable" carbon 
image -- that the inkjet image could be smeared with a wet brush.  Even 
with one of my custom, non-binder dilution bases, the carbon image is 
still too water-resistant to smear.  The carbon, by itself, is 
apparently so tiny that it embeds itself in the paper without the need 
for hardly any binder.  That low binder level for matte carbon inksets, 
of course, might also be relevant to the issue of printer head clogging.

Paul 
www.PaulRoark.com   


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "c1asia" 
<c1asia@...> wrote:

>
> has anyone had any experience with hand tinting inkjet prints using 
> marshalls photo oils or pastels on either piezo selenium mps or sepia 
> k7 inks?  just wanted to get some good paper recommendations.  i'm 
> looking at medium to heavy weight warmtone matte papers with a smooth 
> texture.  i'm thinking hahnemuhle museum etching maybe?  is there a 
> better paper?  moab?  museo?
> 
> and also, what's the best prep varnish to use prior to coloring?  
> gesso, acrylic satin varnish?  any ideas?
>

I, too, have been looking for a paper that will work successfully with 
Marshall's Photo Oils, which I first began using on my darkroom prints 
in the mid-1970s.  In those days my favorite Kodak paper had very warm 
blacks-- almost brownish black-- and cream-tone whites, which were ideal 
for hand tinted images.  Today I'm printing with Epson's 3800 and 7880, 
and hope to again find a warm-tone paper that can be used to similar effect.

Since my love of photography was inspired by the early realization that 
this could be an art of creative interpretation rather than simply a 
straightforward reproduction of reality, much of my work has been 
predicated on the view that what I capture with the camera lens is 
merely the canvas on which I work, and not the final image. 

Working with film cameras for 25 years, my darkroom techniques included 
selective toning,  the chemical alteration of film negatives, the 
creation and manipulation of paper negatives, and the application of 
texture screens;  post-darkroom processing covered everything from 
Marshall's Photo Oils to brush-applied Farmer's Reducer to pumice stone, 
boric acid, and charcoal rubs. 

In the early 1990s I began to work also with digital imagery, embracing 
the early versions of Photoshop and Painter, and since 1995 much of my 
work has focused on digitally transforming my photographs into artistic 
pieces. 

I love what can be accomplished using the computer and an Intuos tablet 
and stylus-- here are a couple of pieces I've done recently from my 
photos, using brushes and techniques I've developed in Photoshop:

http://www.pbase.com/shoshanna/image/84224547
http://www.pbase.com/shoshanna/image/90358763

... but the hands-on application of actual paint is something that has 
its own magic, and I'd very much like to get back to it.  If anyone can 
recommend a good paper to use with Epson's current UltraChrome K3 inks, 
I'd very much appreciate hearing about it.

Note to Darlene-- It's always good to encounter a "neighbor" on these 
lists-- I live in Gold Beach, on Oregon's south coast, but make the 
beautiful drive to the Medford/Ashland area every six weeks.  Ashland is 
undoubtedly one of the most charming towns in our state, and visiting 
there is always a pleasure.  I recently received an email notice that 
the preview performances of the Shakespeare Festival  were about to 
begin, and that's always something to celebrate, as well as attend, and 
I'm very much looking forward to the season.  If there were any other 
place in Oregon that could lure me into moving away from the coast-- and 
that's not likely!-- it would be Ashland.  I hope you truly enjoy living 
there.

Best wishes,

Shoshanna
http://www.pbase.com/shoshanna



.

Darlene Lyon Kruse wrote:

>
> Please share any recommendations you get. I used to do my own darkroom
> prints, usually on Agfa Portriga Rapid 118, later on Oriental Seagull 
> when
> Portriga was no longer made. I too am trying to find good paper for
> hand-coloring digital prints with Marshalls and would appreciate 
> hearing any
> comments and recommendations. I'm printing on an Epson 2200.
>
> Thanks.
> darlene
>
> Darlene Lyon Kruse
> Photographer / Mixed Media Artist
> Ashland, Oregon USA
>
> .
>
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" 
<pr_roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> For what it's worth, the watercolorist I've been working with puts 
> Arches Hot Press, un-coated watercolor paper at the top of her 
list.  
> The paper will not print as smoothly as coated paper, nor have the 
deep 
> dmax, but as a base for further painterly work, the combination of 
> Arches and watercolors may be a very nice medium.  
> 
> The Eboni-6 is actually an outgrowth of a project to make 
a "workable" 
> carbon-to-watercolor mixed media.  Unique partitioning of a K6 can 
> optimize the smoothness.  The dmax can be in the 1.5+ range, 
depending 
> on printer and workflow.  
> 
> I, unfortunately, failed to achieve one goal of the "workable" 
carbon 
> image -- that the inkjet image could be smeared with a wet brush.  
Even 
> with one of my custom, non-binder dilution bases, the carbon image 
is 
> still too water-resistant to smear.  The carbon, by itself, is 
> apparently so tiny that it embeds itself in the paper without the 
need 
> for hardly any binder.  That low binder level for matte carbon 
inksets, 
> of course, might also be relevant to the issue of printer head 
clogging.
> 
> Paul 
> www.PaulRoark.com   
> 


someone else had mentioned arches to me so it's definitely worth 
trying.  others on my short list includes...
 - Arches Bright White Watercolor
 - Epson Textured Fine Art
 - Museo Max and Museo Crane
 - Moab Entrada Natural
 - Hahnemühle Museum Etching or William Turner
 - Memories by Marshalls Inkjet Photo Paper

i was told it was important to apply some kind of a coat on the print 
prior to tinting as the photo oils are acidic and will deteriorate 
the paper over time without it.  either clear liquitex gesso or an 
acrylic satin varnish.  unfortunately, it yields a very different 
effect than photo oils on the traditional analog papers because it's 
sitting on top of the varnish rather than the print itself.

> i was told it was important to apply some kind of a coat on the print 
> prior to tinting as the photo oils are acidic and will deteriorate 
> the paper over time without it. ...

I'd abandon the old photo tint model completely and go the watercolor 
route.  I think we have compatible media -- inkjet printing and water 
color painting -- just waiting to be merged.  

Then there is canvas where just a high key outline is printed as a 
guide for acrylics or oils.  

Some of the older painters in Gallery Los Olivos were convinced a 
younger, new artist who did spectacular, large landscapes in oils 
was "cheating" by painting over a photograph.  Hmm, wonder where 
photography got its start anyway.


Paul      
www.PaulRoark.com

>>i was told it was important to apply some kind of a coat on the
>>print prior to tinting as the photo oils are acidic and will 
>>deteriorate the paper over time without it. ...
> 
>I'd abandon the old photo tint model completely and go the 
>watercolor route.  I think we have compatible media -- inkjet 
>printing and water color painting -- just waiting to be merged.  


Just found this Q&A web site on the subject...

  http://www.freestylephoto.biz/airey.php



Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak