Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by john dean

I just reflected again on the fact that Wilhelm has the best black and
white permanency rating for the  Epson Velvet Fine Art paper with
Ultrachrome inks (no uv spray coating). That is 406 wilhelm years
under glass compared to 100 years less for the Premier Art Hotpress
with the same inks AND a uv coating.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/9880.html

That's pretty signigicant, especially when one considers that the dmax
with Ultrachrome is way beyond all the other matte rag papers out
there. ( not true with Cone inks however, :-( ). Anyone who has tried
to match the deep black with Ultrachomre on any Hahnemuhle paper knows
exactly what I'm talking about. It isn't even close with UC. 

Can ANYONE think of a reason this paper is not being offered in rolls?
 Is is that damn fragile? To me it has a superior texture and gamut to
Somerset Velvet with far greater stability ratings and dmax? But 17x22
is the limit. Strange indeed.



http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/ProductMediaSpec.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Overview&oid=-9824&category=Paper+%26+Media




John

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by Tyler Boley

John, wouldn't it be a handling problem? I've had my hands on this
stuff once or twice and it seemed a bit "board" like to roll without
problems. It's also one of the worst flakers I've seen, so Drolling
and the rest of the somewhat brutal handling to get the thing flatter
could also be problematic...
?
I agree though, nice stuff, at least they could make larger sheets.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
<deanwork2003@...> wrote:
>
> I just reflected again on the fact that Wilhelm has the best black and
> white permanency rating for the  Epson Velvet Fine Art paper with
> Ultrachrome inks (no uv spray coating). That is 406 wilhelm years
> under glass compared to 100 years less for the Premier Art Hotpress
> with the same inks AND a uv coating.
> 
> http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/9880.html
> 
> That's pretty signigicant, especially when one considers that the dmax
> with Ultrachrome is way beyond all the other matte rag papers out
> there. ( not true with Cone inks however, :-( ). Anyone who has tried
> to match the deep black with Ultrachomre on any Hahnemuhle paper knows
> exactly what I'm talking about. It isn't even close with UC. 
> 
> Can ANYONE think of a reason this paper is not being offered in rolls?
>  Is is that damn fragile? To me it has a superior texture and gamut to
> Somerset Velvet with far greater stability ratings and dmax? But 17x22
> is the limit. Strange indeed.
> 
> 
> 
>
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/ProductMediaSpec.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Overview&oid=-9824&category=Paper+%26+Media
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John
>

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by john dean

I'm not really that experienced with VFA but from what I remember it
might not be any worse than German Etching or Museum Etching in regard
to thickness. 

I'll tell you one thing, I'm having a lot of problem with the Museum
Etching rolls curling in the 10K printer and leaving black smudges on
the edges of the paper with the K6 inks - rarely happening with
Photorag. And, this is a printer you can easily run foam cor though.

It's a shame because it is a perfect print color to me with K6 and I
use it for my own work and others. It is gotten to the point where I'm
going to have to trim it down in sheets and that is a great hassle
because I don't have a dry mount press big enough to flatten the
sheets. I feed the very thick Crane Museo 2 in 17x22 sheets and it is
always perfect. When the M Etching gets down to about 1/2 of the roll
it is just impossible to keep remotely flat on the roll. I've done
everything I can think of to set the paper thickness on the machine to
as wide as it will go. It is just striking the paper at the curl
point. I don'† seem to have that problem so much in the 9600 though
with the proper settings.

john



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@...> wrote:
>
> John, wouldn't it be a handling problem? I've had my hands on this
> stuff once or twice and it seemed a bit "board" like to roll without
> problems. It's also one of the worst flakers I've seen, so Drolling
> and the rest of the somewhat brutal handling to get the thing flatter
> could also be problematic...
> ?
> I agree though, nice stuff, at least they could make larger sheets.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
> <deanwork2003@> wrote:
> >
> > I just reflected again on the fact that Wilhelm has the best black and
> > white permanency rating for the  Epson Velvet Fine Art paper with
> > Ultrachrome inks (no uv spray coating). That is 406 wilhelm years
> > under glass compared to 100 years less for the Premier Art Hotpress
> > with the same inks AND a uv coating.
> > 
> > http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/9880.html
> > 
> > That's pretty signigicant, especially when one considers that the dmax
> > with Ultrachrome is way beyond all the other matte rag papers out
> > there. ( not true with Cone inks however, :-( ). Anyone who has tried
> > to match the deep black with Ultrachomre on any Hahnemuhle paper knows
> > exactly what I'm talking about. It isn't even close with UC. 
> > 
> > Can ANYONE think of a reason this paper is not being offered in rolls?
> >  Is is that damn fragile? To me it has a superior texture and gamut to
> > Somerset Velvet with far greater stability ratings and dmax? But 17x22
> > is the limit. Strange indeed.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/ProductMediaSpec.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Overview&oid=-9824&category=Paper+%26+Media
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > John
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by Carolyn Frayn

On 22-Feb-08, at 7:14 AM, john dean wrote:

> snip.

> Anyone who has tried
> to match the deep black with Ultrachomre on any Hahnemuhle paper knows
> exactly what I'm talking about. It isn't even close with UC.

yup.. I hung a show in November, printed on EVFA for the smaller  
prints, and German Etching for larger, love the black UC on EVFA so  
much that I didn't care if they weren't exact to the GE.


>
> Can ANYONE think of a reason this paper is not being offered in rolls?
>  Is is that damn fragile? To me it has a superior texture and gamut to
> Somerset Velvet with far greater stability ratings and dmax? But 17x22
> is the limit. Strange indeed.

I'm not sure I'd want to handle it in rolls, but I've always wished  
it came in larger sheets. It's my favorite for blacks with UC.. Would  
you care to start an enquiry through epson? :)

Carolyn

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by Carolyn Frayn

I haven't had many flaking issues with EVFA myself, much less than  
with my other preferred paper, German Etching. It's great going  
through the printer path, always flat, unlike museum etching that for  
some reason always screws up on the sides. I quit using ME, love the  
look, hate the waste.

Carolyn
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 22-Feb-08, at 10:36 AM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> John, wouldn't it be a handling problem? I've had my hands on this
> stuff once or twice and it seemed a bit "board" like to roll without
> problems. It's also one of the worst flakers I've seen, so Drolling
> and the rest of the somewhat brutal handling to get the thing flatter
> could also be problematic...
> ?
> I agree though, nice stuff, at least they could make larger sheets.
> Tyler

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by Tyler Boley

My experience is that the non-cotton papers can not be Drolled. They
will kink. So German Etching is out for that. I'm not sure of VFAs
content.
In fact, we tried Drolling PhotoRag 308 yet again yesterday every
conceivable way, as a test, and every attempt resulted in some kind of
kink. This, after a client complained. And it's cotton rag.
At this point I can only assume that those not having problems are
simply not as unreasonably demanding as some of my clients.
Except for huge prints, enough with the rolls here. Done. This has
been consuming too much time and money here for too long. Ridiculous.
Back to sheets, a dream in comparison.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
<deanwork2003@...> wrote:
>
> I'm not really that experienced with VFA but from what I remember it
> might not be any worse than German Etching or Museum Etching in regard
> to thickness. 
> 
> I'll tell you one thing, I'm having a lot of problem with the Museum
> Etching rolls curling in the 10K printer and leaving black smudges on
> the edges of the paper with the K6 inks - rarely happening with
> Photorag. And, this is a printer you can easily run foam cor though.
> 
> It's a shame because it is a perfect print color to me with K6 and I
> use it for my own work and others. It is gotten to the point where I'm
> going to have to trim it down in sheets and that is a great hassle
> because I don't have a dry mount press big enough to flatten the
> sheets. I feed the very thick Crane Museo 2 in 17x22 sheets and it is
> always perfect. When the M Etching gets down to about 1/2 of the roll
> it is just impossible to keep remotely flat on the roll. I've done
> everything I can think of to set the paper thickness on the machine to
> as wide as it will go. It is just striking the paper at the curl
> point. I don'† seem to have that problem so much in the 9600 though
> with the proper settings.
> 
> john
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
> <tyler@> wrote:
> >
> > John, wouldn't it be a handling problem? I've had my hands on this
> > stuff once or twice and it seemed a bit "board" like to roll without
> > problems. It's also one of the worst flakers I've seen, so Drolling
> > and the rest of the somewhat brutal handling to get the thing flatter
> > could also be problematic...
> > ?
> > I agree though, nice stuff, at least they could make larger sheets.
> > Tyler
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
> > <deanwork2003@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I just reflected again on the fact that Wilhelm has the best
black and
> > > white permanency rating for the  Epson Velvet Fine Art paper with
> > > Ultrachrome inks (no uv spray coating). That is 406 wilhelm years
> > > under glass compared to 100 years less for the Premier Art Hotpress
> > > with the same inks AND a uv coating.
> > > 
> > > http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/9880.html
> > > 
> > > That's pretty signigicant, especially when one considers that
the dmax
> > > with Ultrachrome is way beyond all the other matte rag papers out
> > > there. ( not true with Cone inks however, :-( ). Anyone who has
tried
> > > to match the deep black with Ultrachomre on any Hahnemuhle paper
knows
> > > exactly what I'm talking about. It isn't even close with UC. 
> > > 
> > > Can ANYONE think of a reason this paper is not being offered in
rolls?
> > >  Is is that damn fragile? To me it has a superior texture and
gamut to
> > > Somerset Velvet with far greater stability ratings and dmax? But
17x22
> > > is the limit. Strange indeed.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
>
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/ProductMediaSpec.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Overview&oid=-9824&category=Paper+%26+Media
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > John
> > >
> >
>

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by Greg

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
<tyler@...> wrote:
>
> My experience is that the non-cotton papers can not be Drolled. They
> will kink. So German Etching is out for that. I'm not sure of VFAs
> content.
> In fact, we tried Drolling PhotoRag 308 yet again yesterday every
> conceivable way, as a test, and every attempt resulted in some kind of
> kink. 

???????????

I have never had a problem reverse rolling German Etching, never. 
Sounds like you need a different tool for the job. My suggestion is to 
buy some really super cheap canvas (50+ inches wide). Unroll a length, 
insert print, roll back up and leave it for 20 minutes or so. If the 
canvas gets dirty, cut off the dirty portion and toss it or use it for 
packing material. Don't think I've even done this on larger than 30x40 
inches, so if you go a lot bigger it may be a bit more of an issue

That said, assuming that your inks are waterproof, get a garment 
steamer and try steaming the German Etching, or Photo Rag. You'd be 
surprised what you can put these papers through and still have a 
perfect print. If you put a cover sheet over the ink, a steam press 
should work fine to flatten the paper before mounting. It little bit of 
added humidity will make the paper very forgiving.

And just for the record, I have not tried steam pressing any of my 
prints. But I have soaked them in the hottest water that comes from the 
tap, steamed them with a garment steamer, and just generally abused 
them. GE, PhotoRag, Photorag luster, several of the Hawk Mountain 
papers, a couple of the canvas materials, and a few other matte papers 
show few signs of damage from steam and water with Image Specialists 
pigment inks. I even measured a profile target before and after the 
print dried again and saw little change. Steaming Photo Rag Luster will 
make the entire surface have about the same amount of gloss.

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by pr_roark

>... Wilhelm has the best black and white permanency rating 
> for the  Epson Velvet Fine Art paper ...  406 wilhelm years
> under glass compared to 100 years less for the Premier 
> Art Hotpress ...
>  http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/9880.html 

I don't see the Premier Art Hot Press there.  The Epson UltraSmooth, 
which appears to have the same coating as Premier Art Hot Press is 
rated at 205 under glass.

It's interesting that the Velvet Fine Art is only rated at 61 years 
with the color inks.  UltraSmooth is rated at 108.

Wilhelm notes that the significant increases in permanence ratings 
are due largely to the "highly-stable carbon pigment based black 
inks."

So, maybe the 100% carbon inks would really do well on that paper.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by Tyler Boley

so you are suggesting that this is somehow superior to taking out a
sheet, putting it in the printer, hitting print, ejecting when done,
putting it in a clearbag and getting it out the door, then proposing a
toast to how great life can be?
Really?
Seriously?
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
<dfaprinting@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
> <tyler@> wrote:
> >
> > My experience is that the non-cotton papers can not be Drolled. They
> > will kink. So German Etching is out for that. I'm not sure of VFAs
> > content.
> > In fact, we tried Drolling PhotoRag 308 yet again yesterday every
> > conceivable way, as a test, and every attempt resulted in some kind of
> > kink. 
> 
> ???????????
> 
> I have never had a problem reverse rolling German Etching, never. 
> Sounds like you need a different tool for the job. My suggestion is to 
> buy some really super cheap canvas (50+ inches wide). Unroll a length, 
> insert print, roll back up and leave it for 20 minutes or so. If the 
> canvas gets dirty, cut off the dirty portion and toss it or use it for 
> packing material. Don't think I've even done this on larger than 30x40 
> inches, so if you go a lot bigger it may be a bit more of an issue
> 
> That said, assuming that your inks are waterproof, get a garment 
> steamer and try steaming the German Etching, or Photo Rag. You'd be 
> surprised what you can put these papers through and still have a 
> perfect print. If you put a cover sheet over the ink, a steam press 
> should work fine to flatten the paper before mounting. It little bit of 
> added humidity will make the paper very forgiving.
> 
> And just for the record, I have not tried steam pressing any of my 
> prints. But I have soaked them in the hottest water that comes from the 
> tap, steamed them with a garment steamer, and just generally abused 
> them. GE, PhotoRag, Photorag luster, several of the Hawk Mountain 
> papers, a couple of the canvas materials, and a few other matte papers 
> show few signs of damage from steam and water with Image Specialists 
> pigment inks. I even measured a profile target before and after the 
> print dried again and saw little change. Steaming Photo Rag Luster will 
> make the entire surface have about the same amount of gloss.
>

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by Greg

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
<tyler@...> wrote:
>
> so you are suggesting that this is somehow superior to taking out a
> sheet, putting it in the printer, hitting print, ejecting when done,
> putting it in a clearbag and getting it out the door, then proposing a
> toast to how great life can be?
> Really?
> Seriously?
> Tyler
> 


Sorry, stupid me for suggesting that there might be an alternative. 
I'll go back to minding my own business.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by CorrPro96@aol.com

In a message dated 2/22/2008 2:52:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
dfaprinting@... writes:

Sorry,  stupid me for suggesting that there might be an alternative. 
I'll go back  to minding my own business.



Notwithstanding Tyler's sense of humor, please continue with your valuable  
input.
 
Richard Massie



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.      
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by Tyler Boley

well I was hoping that would be somewhat humorous.
I have to add that as an individual artist, I would have very
different concerns that a printer for others, where every second of
the day, and every messed up print, costs money. The margins are very
very slim, believe me.
For my own stuff, I can dink around all I want. Obviously there are a
lot of things we can do, including post printing work. Carolyn, for
example, is playing with encaustics.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
<dfaprinting@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
> <tyler@> wrote:
> >
> > so you are suggesting that this is somehow superior to taking out a
> > sheet, putting it in the printer, hitting print, ejecting when done,
> > putting it in a clearbag and getting it out the door, then proposing a
> > toast to how great life can be?
> > Really?
> > Seriously?
> > Tyler
> > 
> 
> 
> Sorry, stupid me for suggesting that there might be an alternative. 
> I'll go back to minding my own business.
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-22 by Richard Smallfield

How I de-roll my paper is to cut it to the right lengths and store them in a box of the right dimensions (custom made) - and after a week or so they are pretty flat. It's non-aggressive on the paper.

Richard

At 07:35 AM Saturday 2/23/2008, you wrote:
>My experience is that the non-cotton papers can not be Drolled. They
>will kink. So German Etching is out for that. I'm not sure of VFAs
>content.
>In fact, we tried Drolling PhotoRag 308 yet again yesterday every
>conceivable way, as a test, and every attempt resulted in some kind of
>kink. This, after a client complained. And it's cotton rag.
>At this point I can only assume that those not having problems are
>simply not as unreasonably demanding as some of my clients.
>Except for huge prints, enough with the rolls here. Done. This has
>been consuming too much time and money here for too long. Ridiculous.
>Back to sheets, a dream in comparison.
>Tyler

--
http://smallfield.vze.com

   "Reason can answer questions, but imagination has to ask them."
   --Ralph W Gerard

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-23 by john dean

Tyler,

I do lot of 30x40 and 40x60 prints and multiples of the same image. If
I had to order sheets I simply wouldn't be in business anymore. I
agree that for things up to 17x22 sheets are really a breeze, but a
huge portion of my work is either larger than that, or multiple prints
of the same image. If I had to stand there and feed 100 sheets in the
printer that too would put me out of business. I'd have to double my
prices. I have done three portfolios in the last year that contained
around 25 editions of around 30 prints each. They were done with
Photorag primarily and all done with groups on a roll of about 44x60"
and derolled at that size. They were all fine and it made the job
worth doing for me.

I still would like to have a giant dry mount press though. That would
be sweet. 


John


y attempt resulted in some kind of
> > > kink. 
> > 
> > ???????????
> > 
> > I have never had a problem reverse rolling German Etching, never. 
> > Sounds like you need a different tool for the job. My suggestion
is to 
> > buy some really super cheap canvas (50+ inches wide). Unroll a
length, 
> > insert print, roll back up and leave it for 20 minutes or so. If the 
> > canvas gets dirty, cut off the dirty portion and toss it or use it
for 
> > packing material. Don't think I've even done this on larger than
30x40 
> > inches, so if you go a lot bigger it may be a bit more of an issue
> > 
> > That said, assuming that your inks are waterproof, get a garment 
> > steamer and try steaming the German Etching, or Photo Rag. You'd be 
> > surprised what you can put these papers through and still have a 
> > perfect print. If you put a cover sheet over the ink, a steam press 
> > should work fine to flatten the paper before mounting. It little
bit of 
> > added humidity will make the paper very forgiving.
> > 
> > And just for the record, I have not tried steam pressing any of my 
> > prints. But I have soaked them in the hottest water that comes
from the 
> > tap, steamed them with a garment steamer, and just generally abused 
> > them. GE, PhotoRag, Photorag luster, several of the Hawk Mountain 
> > papers, a couple of the canvas materials, and a few other matte
papers 
> > show few signs of damage from steam and water with Image Specialists 
> > pigment inks. I even measured a profile target before and after the 
> > print dried again and saw little change. Steaming Photo Rag Luster
will 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > make the entire surface have about the same amount of gloss.
> >
>

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-23 by Tyler Boley

John, I only order the largest size, anything smaller is trimmed out
of that, turns out there is very little waste considering test strips,
proofs, many small prints etc.. 4 up on an Iris size sheet is no more
handling than the same from a roll, minus the Droll wrestling and
ruining. The RIP puts the trim marks on for me, a few cuts and they're
in the clearbags.
Obviously I was being a bit sarcastic.
I had years of sheets only, and now years of rolls. There is no
contest, I realize literally no one seems to agree with me. Except of
course, my clients who'd prefer no more kinked or curly prints.
If you do the math, subtract the waste from the unusable roll ends,
even if you don't ruin 50% of the prints like I do attempting to
flatten, I think you will actually find the large sheets may be
cheaper when ordered in palettes of 3 boxes. They were some years
back, but prices have changed.
Frankly, its the largest stuff that is even easier with sheets. Surely
you don't stand there while each 30x40 is printing, all that time,
ready with the next sheet <G>.
If I had to jump through the kinds of hoops suggested here to make a
print flat, I too would be out of business in a week.
Also, I'm not doing the volume you are, nowhere close.
The invitation is still open, I'd be happy to watch anyone stop by and
flatten one of these roll prints here easily, quickly, without ruining
it. Prize is a cup of coffee and my unending respect (not bankable).
And the LL video is a joke, the damn print is already nearly flat and
lays out like no roll print I've ever seen.

I'll stop posting about this now, I seem to be the only one on the
planet not able to make all that work. Not the first or last thing
I'll never master, time to move on.
T





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
<deanwork2003@...> wrote:
>
> Tyler,
> 
> I do lot of 30x40 and 40x60 prints and multiples of the same image. If
> I had to order sheets I simply wouldn't be in business anymore. I
> agree that for things up to 17x22 sheets are really a breeze, but a
> huge portion of my work is either larger than that, or multiple prints
> of the same image. If I had to stand there and feed 100 sheets in the
> printer that too would put me out of business. I'd have to double my
> prices. I have done three portfolios in the last year that contained
> around 25 editions of around 30 prints each. They were done with
> Photorag primarily and all done with groups on a roll of about 44x60"
> and derolled at that size. They were all fine and it made the job
> worth doing for me.
> 
> I still would like to have a giant dry mount press though. That would
> be sweet. 
> 
> 
> John
> 
> 
> y attempt resulted in some kind of
> > > > kink. 
> > > 
> > > ???????????
> > > 
> > > I have never had a problem reverse rolling German Etching, never. 
> > > Sounds like you need a different tool for the job. My suggestion
> is to 
> > > buy some really super cheap canvas (50+ inches wide). Unroll a
> length, 
> > > insert print, roll back up and leave it for 20 minutes or so. If
the 
> > > canvas gets dirty, cut off the dirty portion and toss it or use it
> for 
> > > packing material. Don't think I've even done this on larger than
> 30x40 
> > > inches, so if you go a lot bigger it may be a bit more of an issue
> > > 
> > > That said, assuming that your inks are waterproof, get a garment 
> > > steamer and try steaming the German Etching, or Photo Rag. You'd be 
> > > surprised what you can put these papers through and still have a 
> > > perfect print. If you put a cover sheet over the ink, a steam press 
> > > should work fine to flatten the paper before mounting. It little
> bit of 
> > > added humidity will make the paper very forgiving.
> > > 
> > > And just for the record, I have not tried steam pressing any of my 
> > > prints. But I have soaked them in the hottest water that comes
> from the 
> > > tap, steamed them with a garment steamer, and just generally abused 
> > > them. GE, PhotoRag, Photorag luster, several of the Hawk Mountain 
> > > papers, a couple of the canvas materials, and a few other matte
> papers 
> > > show few signs of damage from steam and water with Image
Specialists 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > pigment inks. I even measured a profile target before and after the 
> > > print dried again and saw little change. Steaming Photo Rag Luster
> will 
> > > make the entire surface have about the same amount of gloss.
> > >
> >
>

Re: Epson Velvet Fine Art Super Permanent in Sheets Only?

2008-02-24 by wwodets

Tyler-

Oddly I have had exactly the opposite experience with VFA.  After 
thousands of prints on 13 x 19 and hundreds on 17 x 22 I have never 
had any flaking problem whatsoever.  I compare it to Ultrasmooth, 
which is also flake-free and Photo Rag which is a problem in this 
regard.  I have also shipped perhaps a hundred VFA prints rolled, in 
tubes, and have never had a problem with it or with flattening it for 
framing on the other end.  I have never used roll paper in my 4800 
because of the handling problems and don't do a volume of work that 
makes it necessary.

Walt


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
<tyler@...> wrote:
>
> John, wouldn't it be a handling problem? I've had my hands on this
> stuff once or twice and it seemed a bit "board" like to roll without
> problems. It's also one of the worst flakers I've seen, so Drolling
> and the rest of the somewhat brutal handling to get the thing 
flatter
> could also be problematic...
> ?
> I agree though, nice stuff, at least they could make larger sheets.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
> <deanwork2003@> wrote:
> >
> > I just reflected again on the fact that Wilhelm has the best 
black and
> > white permanency rating for the  Epson Velvet Fine Art paper with
> > Ultrachrome inks (no uv spray coating). That is 406 wilhelm years
> > under glass compared to 100 years less for the Premier Art 
Hotpress
> > with the same inks AND a uv coating.
> > 
> > http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/9880.html
> > 
> > That's pretty signigicant, especially when one considers that the 
dmax
> > with Ultrachrome is way beyond all the other matte rag papers out
> > there. ( not true with Cone inks however, :-( ). Anyone who has 
tried
> > to match the deep black with Ultrachomre on any Hahnemuhle paper 
knows
> > exactly what I'm talking about. It isn't even close with UC. 
> > 
> > Can ANYONE think of a reason this paper is not being offered in 
rolls?
> >  Is is that damn fragile? To me it has a superior texture and 
gamut to
> > Somerset Velvet with far greater stability ratings and dmax? But 
17x22
> > is the limit. Strange indeed.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/ProductMediaSpec.jsp?
BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Overview&oid=-9824&category=Paper+%
26+Media
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > John
> >
>

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.