Digital BW, The Print

I thought I would relay this technique, maybe others can use it.

One piece of equipment I never got around to purchasing was a good  
film scanner for digitizing my older 6x7 cm B&W negatives. I did try  
some film scans on my Epson 2450 but it always felt the scans where  
lacking in comparisons to what I knew I could get with a good  
dedicated film scanner. There is no good way to focus the 2450 and  
none of the available software for this scanner does exactly what I  
want when scanning B&W negatives. I also contemplated  sending out  
for scans but I was looking at $50+ for a good 16 bit scan and I  
really like doing these kind of things myself!

On a whim I tried shooting my medium format negatives with my Canon  
5D and I am thrilled with the results! Here is my setup:

I mounted my Canon 5D with a Canon 100mm macro F/ 2.8 USM lens on my  
copy stand. For a light source I'm using a Kaiser Prolight lightbox.  
I put down a sheet of black mat-board on top of the lightbox and cut  
out an opening the size of a single 6x7 cm frame. My exposures are  
approximately 1/6 of a sec at F/ 11. With these exposures I'm using  
the mirror lock up function of the 5D. I shoot in a dimly lit room.

I'm shooting Raw and converting the Raw riles using CS3 with camera  
Raw 4.1. Camera Raw allows amazingly good control over the contrast /  
tonality of the capture. Once in Photoshop I invert the image to a  
positive and do some further adjustments. I'm using the "reduce  
noise" filter in CS3 to smooth out the grain of my film negatives.

I'm VERY pleased with the final results... If I had sent out my  
negatives to be scanned at $50 a pop and gotten these results I would  
have felt I got my $ worth.


Has anyone else tried this technique? Anything to add?

-Jeff

Interesting method; I would be interested in the enlarging qualities of your
negatives. I too have 1000's of 6x7 and 6x9 negatives, and ended up with an
Epson V700. Does a fairly good job and with care can get a really good
looking 16x20. The down size is the length of time it takes to scan a
negative.
 
Mike

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Magidson
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 9:26 AM
To: digital bw group group
Subject: [Digital BW] B&W film Scanning with a DSLR



I thought I would relay this technique, maybe others can use it.

One piece of equipment I never got around to purchasing was a good 
film scanner for digitizing my older 6x7 cm B&W negatives. I did try 
some film scans on my Epson 2450 but it always felt the scans where 
lacking in comparisons to what I knew I could get with a good 
dedicated film scanner. There is no good way to focus the 2450 and 
none of the available software for this scanner does exactly what I 
want when scanning B&W negatives. I also contemplated sending out 
for scans but I was looking at $50+ for a good 16 bit scan and I 
really like doing these kind of things myself!

On a whim I tried shooting my medium format negatives with my Canon 
5D and I am thrilled with the results! Here is my setup:

I mounted my Canon 5D with a Canon 100mm macro F/ 2.8 USM lens on my 
copy stand. For a light source I'm using a Kaiser Prolight lightbox. 
I put down a sheet of black mat-board on top of the lightbox and cut 
out an opening the size of a single 6x7 cm frame. My exposures are 
approximately 1/6 of a sec at F/ 11. With these exposures I'm using 
the mirror lock up function of the 5D. I shoot in a dimly lit room.

I'm shooting Raw and converting the Raw riles using CS3 with camera 
Raw 4.1. Camera Raw allows amazingly good control over the contrast / 
tonality of the capture. Once in Photoshop I invert the image to a 
positive and do some further adjustments. I'm using the "reduce 
noise" filter in CS3 to smooth out the grain of my film negatives.

I'm VERY pleased with the final results... If I had sent out my 
negatives to be scanned at $50 a pop and gotten these results I would 
have felt I got my $ worth.

Has anyone else tried this technique? Anything to add?

-Jeff



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeff, how do you hold the negative flat in your set-up?

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Jeff Magidson <jef.jef@...> wrote:

>   I thought I would relay this technique, maybe others can use it.
>
> One piece of equipment I never got around to purchasing was a good
> film scanner for digitizing my older 6x7 cm B&W negatives. I did try
> some film scans on my Epson 2450 but it always felt the scans where
> lacking in comparisons to what I knew I could get with a good
> dedicated film scanner. There is no good way to focus the 2450 and
> none of the available software for this scanner does exactly what I
> want when scanning B&W negatives. I also contemplated sending out
> for scans but I was looking at $50+ for a good 16 bit scan and I
> really like doing these kind of things myself!
>
> On a whim I tried shooting my medium format negatives with my Canon
> 5D and I am thrilled with the results! Here is my setup:
>
> I mounted my Canon 5D with a Canon 100mm macro F/ 2.8 USM lens on my
> copy stand. For a light source I'm using a Kaiser Prolight lightbox.
> I put down a sheet of black mat-board on top of the lightbox and cut
> out an opening the size of a single 6x7 cm frame. My exposures are
> approximately 1/6 of a sec at F/ 11. With these exposures I'm using
> the mirror lock up function of the 5D. I shoot in a dimly lit room.
>
> I'm shooting Raw and converting the Raw riles using CS3 with camera
> Raw 4.1. Camera Raw allows amazingly good control over the contrast /
> tonality of the capture. Once in Photoshop I invert the image to a
> positive and do some further adjustments. I'm using the "reduce
> noise" filter in CS3 to smooth out the grain of my film negatives.
>
> I'm VERY pleased with the final results... If I had sent out my
> negatives to be scanned at $50 a pop and gotten these results I would
> have felt I got my $ worth.
>
> Has anyone else tried this technique? Anything to add?
>
> -Jeff
>
>  
>



-- 
Jordan Wosnick
jwosnick@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jeff-

Um... Where to start.

You are using a resolution of 4368 x 2912 to capture your film- since it's
6x7, the real MAX resolution is ~2900x3400. This is equivalent to scanning
at 1250 DPI. The file is <60 megs, and will print at 12"x14" max.

When you pay for a drum scan from me, a scan this size is much less than
$50, is perfectly in focus, and has the advantage of the wet-mounting
reducing or eliminating film scratches and dust. There really is no
comparison.

If you pay $50 for a scan from me, you get a scan at 5000 DPI, it is
perfectly in focus, is spotted for any remaining major scratches or dust,
and you can print it up to 50"x60". There really is no comparison to what
you are achieving.

If you will not be printing your 6x7 negs to larger than 11x14, you may have
a reasonable solution. There is also alot to be said for DYI! Just don't
confuse it with a professional drum scan.

Lastly, while I charge about $50 for a 6x7 scan, I routinely discount for
multi-image orders, so your final cost might be less.

-- 
Regards,

Bill Morse
Wm. Morse Editions

http://www.MorseEditions.com/

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Jeff Magidson <jef.jef@...> wrote:

>   I thought I would relay this technique, maybe others can use it.
>
> One piece of equipment I never got around to purchasing was a good
> film scanner for digitizing my older 6x7 cm B&W negatives. I did try
> some film scans on my Epson 2450 but it always felt the scans where
> lacking in comparisons to what I knew I could get with a good
> dedicated film scanner. There is no good way to focus the 2450 and
> none of the available software for this scanner does exactly what I
> want when scanning B&W negatives. I also contemplated sending out
> for scans but I was looking at $50+ for a good 16 bit scan and I
> really like doing these kind of things myself!
>
> On a whim I tried shooting my medium format negatives with my Canon
> 5D and I am thrilled with the results! Here is my setup:
>
> I mounted my Canon 5D with a Canon 100mm macro F/ 2.8 USM lens on my
> copy stand. For a light source I'm using a Kaiser Prolight lightbox.
> I put down a sheet of black mat-board on top of the lightbox and cut
> out an opening the size of a single 6x7 cm frame. My exposures are
> approximately 1/6 of a sec at F/ 11. With these exposures I'm using
> the mirror lock up function of the 5D. I shoot in a dimly lit room.
>
> I'm shooting Raw and converting the Raw riles using CS3 with camera
> Raw 4.1. Camera Raw allows amazingly good control over the contrast /
> tonality of the capture. Once in Photoshop I invert the image to a
> positive and do some further adjustments. I'm using the "reduce
> noise" filter in CS3 to smooth out the grain of my film negatives.
>
> I'm VERY pleased with the final results... If I had sent out my
> negatives to be scanned at $50 a pop and gotten these results I would
> have felt I got my $ worth.
>
> Has anyone else tried this technique? Anything to add?
>
> -Jeff
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jordan;

At first I was taping the four corners of the negative directly to the
lightbox and placing the mask on top of the neg. Next, I will try
using the film holder that came with my Epson 2450. At F/11 with a
DSLR you have pretty good depth of focus so absolute film flatness is
less critical than with a traditional flatbed or dedicated film scanner. 

-Jeff

http://artslidesboston.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jordan Wosnick"
<jwosnick@...> wrote:
>
> Jeff, how do you hold the negative flat in your set-up?

Bill;

You are correct.. I should have mentioned that I'm not really
interested in making very large prints so the resolution is adequate
for me. Also, although the capture process is QUICK, I'm spending a
fair amount of time on dusting / spotting. The real positives for me
about this is that I can use my existing equipment and the sharpness ,
detail and tonal placement / control are very good. 

-Jeff

http://artslidesboston.com  


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Morse"
<Bill.Morse@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff-
> 
> Um... Where to start.
> 
> You are using a resolution of 4368 x 2912 to capture your film-
since it's
> 6x7, the real MAX resolution is ~2900x3400. This is equivalent to
scanning
> at 1250 DPI. The file is <60 megs, and will print at 12"x14" max.
> 
> When you pay for a drum scan from me, a scan this size is much less than
> $50, is perfectly in focus, and has the advantage of the wet-mounting
> reducing or eliminating film scratches and dust. There really is no
> comparison.
> 
> If you pay $50 for a scan from me, you get a scan at 5000 DPI, it is
> perfectly in focus, is spotted for any remaining major scratches or
dust,
> and you can print it up to 50"x60". There really is no comparison to
what
> you are achieving.
> 
> If you will not be printing your 6x7 negs to larger than 11x14, you
may have
> a reasonable solution. There is also alot to be said for DYI! Just don't
> confuse it with a professional drum scan.
> 
> Lastly, while I charge about $50 for a 6x7 scan, I routinely
discount for

> multi-image orders, so your final cost might be less.
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Bill Morse
> Wm. Morse Editions
> 
> http://www.MorseEditions.com/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Magidson 
<jef.jef@...> wrote:
> On a whim I tried shooting my medium format negatives with my Canon  
> 5D and I am thrilled with the results! Here is my setup:
> 
> I mounted my Canon 5D with a Canon 100mm macro F/ 2.8 USM lens on my  
> copy stand. For a light source I'm using a Kaiser Prolight lightbox.  
> I put down a sheet of black mat-board on top of the lightbox and cut  
> out an opening the size of a single 6x7 cm frame. 

You have now made a higher resolution scanner that is used on many of 
the "minilabs". Most of those scanners are just a lens and a regular 
flat ccd (non-scanning). Most of the minilab ones are around 6mp (at 
least the Kodak ones that show up on ebay for a few hundred dollars).
It should be damn fast to digitize film this way.

If you want to increase the quality, you might think about build a 
different light source, something that is brighter so that you can stop 
the lens down and keep a fast exposure. And also you could control the 
color temperature of the light better than with a flourescent tube.

At 05:19 PM 2/29/2008, you wrote:

>If you want to increase the quality, you might think about build a
>different light source, something that is brighter so that you can stop
>the lens down and keep a fast exposure. And also you could control the
>color temperature of the light better than with a flourescent tube.

I do this using a Beseler Slide Duplicator.  With an adapter for the 
Canon 5D and an enlarger lens, it makes pretty good files - not as 
good as my Nikon LS5000 but a lot faster and more convenient.  The 
Beseler has built in filters or you can use white light or 
flash.  I've had mine for years and it was expensive when I bought 
it, but you can pick them up for almost nothing now on E-Bay. Peter 
Krogh recommends using the DSLR method in his DAM book.

Tina


Tina Manley
http://leicatraveler.blogspot.com/
www.tinamanley.com

Yes, Jeff, I have recently scanned my 35mm slides the
same way except that I used an old 75mm enlarging lens
and it gives very good results. Hansraj.
--- Jeff Magidson <jef.jef@...> wrote:

> I thought I would relay this technique, maybe others
> can use it.
> 
> One piece of equipment I never got around to
> purchasing was a good  
> film scanner for digitizing my older 6x7 cm B&W
> negatives. I did try  
> some film scans on my Epson 2450 but it always felt
> the scans where  
> lacking in comparisons to what I knew I could get
> with a good  
> dedicated film scanner. There is no good way to
> focus the 2450 and  
> none of the available software for this scanner does
> exactly what I  
> want when scanning B&W negatives. I also
> contemplated  sending out  
> for scans but I was looking at $50+ for a good 16
> bit scan and I  
> really like doing these kind of things myself!
> 
> On a whim I tried shooting my medium format
> negatives with my Canon  
> 5D and I am thrilled with the results! Here is my
> setup:
> 
> I mounted my Canon 5D with a Canon 100mm macro F/
> 2.8 USM lens on my  
> copy stand. For a light source I'm using a Kaiser
> Prolight lightbox.  
> I put down a sheet of black mat-board on top of the
> lightbox and cut  
> out an opening the size of a single 6x7 cm frame. My
> exposures are  
> approximately 1/6 of a sec at F/ 11. With these
> exposures I'm using  
> the mirror lock up function of the 5D. I shoot in a
> dimly lit room.
> 
> I'm shooting Raw and converting the Raw riles using
> CS3 with camera  
> Raw 4.1. Camera Raw allows amazingly good control
> over the contrast /  
> tonality of the capture. Once in Photoshop I invert
> the image to a  
> positive and do some further adjustments. I'm using
> the "reduce  
> noise" filter in CS3 to smooth out the grain of my
> film negatives.
> 
> I'm VERY pleased with the final results... If I had
> sent out my  
> negatives to be scanned at $50 a pop and gotten
> these results I would  
> have felt I got my $ worth.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else tried this technique? Anything to
> add?
> 
> -Jeff
> 
> 
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Hi Jeff,

I do shoot even 35mm. I've always loved "reproduction" and even built Brown process cameras for awhile.

gar - the copy cat

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/29/08 at 12:26 PM Jeff Magidson wrote:

>I thought I would relay this technique, maybe others can use it.
>
>One piece of equipment I never got around to purchasing was a good  
>film scanner for digitizing my older 6x7 cm B&W negatives. I did try  
>some film scans on my Epson 2450 but it always felt the scans where  
>lacking in comparisons to what I knew I could get with a good  
>dedicated film scanner. There is no good way to focus the 2450 and  
>none of the available software for this scanner does exactly what I  
>want when scanning B&W negatives. I also contemplated  sending out  
>for scans but I was looking at $50+ for a good 16 bit scan and I  
>really like doing these kind of things myself!
>
>On a whim I tried shooting my medium format negatives with my Canon  
>5D and I am thrilled with the results! Here is my setup:
>
>I mounted my Canon 5D with a Canon 100mm macro F/ 2.8 USM lens on my  
>copy stand. For a light source I'm using a Kaiser Prolight lightbox.  
>I put down a sheet of black mat-board on top of the lightbox and cut  
>out an opening the size of a single 6x7 cm frame. My exposures are  
>approximately 1/6 of a sec at F/ 11. With these exposures I'm using  
>the mirror lock up function of the 5D. I shoot in a dimly lit room.
>
>I'm shooting Raw and converting the Raw riles using CS3 with camera  
>Raw 4.1. Camera Raw allows amazingly good control over the contrast /  
>tonality of the capture. Once in Photoshop I invert the image to a  
>positive and do some further adjustments. I'm using the "reduce  
>noise" filter in CS3 to smooth out the grain of my film negatives.
>
>I'm VERY pleased with the final results... If I had sent out my  
>negatives to be scanned at $50 a pop and gotten these results I would  
>have felt I got my $ worth.
>
>
>Has anyone else tried this technique? Anything to add?
>
>-Jeff
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
>the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files
>section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
>�MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
>�OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Epson's scanning application is fine. Vuescan's as good as it gets, as
well. Fiddling with scanning applications isn't as effective as doing
the fiddling in post-processing.

There is an excellent way to focus the 2450:
http://www.betterscanning.com/ 

While no Epson's as good as my Nikon for 35mm, my 3200 produces
excellent 11X17 from 645...easily equal to sharp
(Rodenstock/condenser) enlargements.



here is no good way to focus the 2450 and  
> none of the available software for this scanner does exactly what I  
> want when scanning B&W negatives.  

 Anything to add?

> 
> -Jeff
>

It would work OK, but the file is going to have a limited size. Scanned
files will give you a better file, but it is of course determined by the
quality of the scanner. I use both a Nikon 9000 and Epson 3200 (bought first
of course). At $50 a pop, 40 scans gets you your own 9000 scanner. I sure
you have 40 scans to make, who doesn't?   hehehehehehehe

Eric 

Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street
Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
http://ericneilsenphotography.com
Skype ejprinter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Weaver
> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 9:12 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] B&W film Scanning with a DSLR
> 
> Hi Jeff,
> 
> I do shoot even 35mm. I've always loved "reproduction" and even built
> Brown process cameras for awhile.
> 
> gar - the copy cat
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 2/29/08 at 12:26 PM Jeff Magidson wrote:
> 
> >I thought I would relay this technique, maybe others can use it.
> >
> >One piece of equipment I never got around to purchasing was a good
> >film scanner for digitizing my older 6x7 cm B&W negatives. I did try
> >some film scans on my Epson 2450 but it always felt the scans where
> >lacking in comparisons to what I knew I could get with a good
> >dedicated film scanner. There is no good way to focus the 2450 and
> >none of the available software for this scanner does exactly what I
> >want when scanning B&W negatives. I also contemplated  sending out
> >for scans but I was looking at $50+ for a good 16 bit scan and I
> >really like doing these kind of things myself!
> >
> >On a whim I tried shooting my medium format negatives with my Canon
> >5D and I am thrilled with the results! Here is my setup:
> >
> >I mounted my Canon 5D with a Canon 100mm macro F/ 2.8 USM lens on my
> >copy stand. For a light source I'm using a Kaiser Prolight lightbox.
> >I put down a sheet of black mat-board on top of the lightbox and cut
> >out an opening the size of a single 6x7 cm frame. My exposures are
> >approximately 1/6 of a sec at F/ 11. With these exposures I'm using
> >the mirror lock up function of the 5D. I shoot in a dimly lit room.
> >
> >I'm shooting Raw and converting the Raw riles using CS3 with camera
> >Raw 4.1. Camera Raw allows amazingly good control over the contrast /
> >tonality of the capture. Once in Photoshop I invert the image to a
> >positive and do some further adjustments. I'm using the "reduce
> >noise" filter in CS3 to smooth out the grain of my film negatives.
> >
> >I'm VERY pleased with the final results... If I had sent out my
> >negatives to be scanned at $50 a pop and gotten these results I would
> >have felt I got my $ worth.
> >
> >
> >Has anyone else tried this technique? Anything to add?
> >
> >-Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources
> as
> >they are often being updated.
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> >unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> same
> >page.
> >
> >Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
> >them short.
> >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> >Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> >membership without notice.
> >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> >printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> >the membership.
> >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> >guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> >and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
> >section:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> >YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
> >MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> >YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> >EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> >PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> >OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> >ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> >OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> >UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> >STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> >YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> >PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
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