Digital BW, The Print

I hear from a normally very reliable source that Epson are working on a
dedicated monochrome quadtone printer. No, doesn't make any sense to me
either.
-- 
John Brownlow

http://www.pinkheadedbug.com

ICQ: 109343205

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Johnny Deadman <john@p...>
wrote:
> I hear from a normally very reliable source that Epson are working
on a
> dedicated monochrome quadtone printer. No, doesn't make any sense
to me
> either.
> -- 
> John Brownlow

I've heard that too, then also that it will never happen from an
equally reliable source. With Epson, it's all about profit, we 
don't represent a very big market. Recovering the costs of developing
and bringing such a product to market would take 
much longer than Epson is comfortable with. Even after that, how
profitable would such a product really be?
Look at the competition. Did the 2000P bring all the Generations and
other 3rd party ink users back under the Epson fold?  
Not even close, and other alternatives like the Cone color pigments
still still come out under the shadow of the Epson pigs.
Considering the alternative monochrome aproaches we have at this
point, they would be jumping into crowded waters 
with no gaurantees of grabbing the majority of a relatively small
group of users.
So, that's the aurgument against it, from a reliable source. But as I
said, I heard it would happen from a reliable source too, 
quite a while ago.
Tyler

on 8/19/01 6:10 PM, Dan Culbertson wrote:

>> I hear from a normally very reliable source that Epson are working on a
>> dedicated monochrome quadtone printer. No, doesn't make any sense to me
>> either.
>> -- 
>> John Brownlow
> 
> It makes a perfect sense to me -- but I am surprised it makes sense to Epson
> -- unless they finally got a look at the grayscale market and decided it was
> bigger than a minor niche.  Someone is going to do it and whoever does will
> win a lot of persistent customers, maybe Epson sees that as a way to keep
> everyone in the fold?   But, unless it is a very inexpensive printer, I
> would think, given printer trends, that it would more likely be a CcMmYKkk
> printer -- meaning it would be a standard six color printer with a "black
> ink" print mode that really used two extra lighter gray heads with the black
> to make a tritone.  Only thing I can think of better would be to make that
> printer have a mode that allowed some variable tinting with the color heads
> though use of printer sliders.  But now I digress into my wish list....

It could even allow for a couple of chambers for an epoxy style varnish to
be applied on the fly. Epoxy style, meaning each component on it's own
wouldn't harden (and clog the crap out of your heads) but when mixed on the
paper, they'd form a nice bond....

Todd

> ... under the shadow of the Epson pigs.

Now there's an image, right out of a Japanese horror movie.


--
Tim Spragens
http://www.borderless-photos.com

Unless Epson sells their inks in bulk, they will never capture serious fine
art printers. They want a CHOICE of inks and papers!, and they want their
inks in bulk.

Jerry




Tyler Boley wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Johnny Deadman <john@p...>
> wrote:
> > I hear from a normally very reliable source that Epson are working
> on a
> > dedicated monochrome quadtone printer. No, doesn't make any sense
> to me
> > either.
> > --
> > John Brownlow
>
> I've heard that too, then also that it will never happen from an
> equally reliable source. With Epson, it's all about profit, we
> don't represent a very big market. Recovering the costs of developing
> and bringing such a product to market would take
> much longer than Epson is comfortable with. Even after that, how
> profitable would such a product really be?
> Look at the competition. Did the 2000P bring all the Generations and
> other 3rd party ink users back under the Epson fold?
> Not even close, and other alternatives like the Cone color pigments
> still still come out under the shadow of the Epson pigs.
> Considering the alternative monochrome aproaches we have at this
> point, they would be jumping into crowded waters
> with no gaurantees of grabbing the majority of a relatively small
> group of users.
> So, that's the aurgument against it, from a reliable source. But as I
> said, I heard it would happen from a reliable source too,
> quite a while ago.
> Tyler
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Dan, its already here. MIS hextone inks and Paul Roark's curves!  No need now
for Cone OR epson to
come out with cold inks, or in Epson's case, quad or Hex inks.  Unless they are
available in bulk, who cares? And Epson would never sell their ink in bulk!

Jer


Dan Culbertson wrote:

> > I hear from a normally very reliable source that Epson are working on a
> > dedicated monochrome quadtone printer. No, doesn't make any sense to me
> > either.
> > --
> > John Brownlow
>
> It makes a perfect sense to me -- but I am surprised it makes sense to Epson
> -- unless they finally got a look at the grayscale market and decided it was
> bigger than a minor niche.  Someone is going to do it and whoever does will
> win a lot of persistent customers, maybe Epson sees that as a way to keep
> everyone in the fold?   But, unless it is a very inexpensive printer, I
> would think, given printer trends, that it would more likely be a CcMmYKkk
> printer -- meaning it would be a standard six color printer with a "black
> ink" print mode that really used two extra lighter gray heads with the black
> to make a tritone.  Only thing I can think of better would be to make that
> printer have a mode that allowed some variable tinting with the color heads
> though use of printer sliders.  But now I digress into my wish list....
>
> -- Dan Culbertson
> so many years, so little time...
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> Say, that's a terrific Idea Todd, Paul, I guess it's up to you to get to work
> on this right away. Sounds workable. :).

Jerry

>
> It could even allow for a couple of chambers for an epoxy style varnish to
> be applied on the fly. Epoxy style, meaning each component on it's own
> wouldn't harden (and clog the crap out of your heads) but when mixed on the
> paper, they'd form a nice bond....
>
> Todd

> I hear from a normally very reliable source that Epson are working on a
> dedicated monochrome quadtone printer. No, doesn't make any sense to me
> either.
> -- 
> John Brownlow

It makes a perfect sense to me -- but I am surprised it makes sense to Epson
-- unless they finally got a look at the grayscale market and decided it was
bigger than a minor niche.  Someone is going to do it and whoever does will
win a lot of persistent customers, maybe Epson sees that as a way to keep
everyone in the fold?   But, unless it is a very inexpensive printer, I
would think, given printer trends, that it would more likely be a CcMmYKkk
printer -- meaning it would be a standard six color printer with a "black
ink" print mode that really used two extra lighter gray heads with the black
to make a tritone.  Only thing I can think of better would be to make that
printer have a mode that allowed some variable tinting with the color heads
though use of printer sliders.  But now I digress into my wish list....

-- Dan Culbertson
so many years, so little time...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...> wrote:

 It could even allow for a couple of chambers for an epoxy style varnish to
> be applied on the fly.



Now, to use Tyler's abbreviation, if pigs could fly.....


<g>

Antonis

Tyler,

Just to add some points to your argument.

I worked for a company that produced parts for a large number of the 
high tech companies here in Silicon Valley, HP in particular. The 
goal in selling ink jet printers a couple of years ago was to realize 
a net profit of -1% to +3%.

None of the ink jet manufactures expect to make a profit by selling 
printers. The profit is in selling ink. (Hence the chipped 
cartridges.) You can buy and entire Epson printer for $69 including 
cartridges. A set of replacement cartridges for it will cost you 
$34.10. Of course Epson is not alone in this all the manufacturers 
are playing exactly the same game.

While the interest in B&W remains consistently strong, it is still a 
tiny piece of the market and none of the big players are likely to 
pursue it especially in the current economy.

If they wanted to do it though, I wouldn't bet that they couldn't and 
very quickly too! It might be more likely that someone like Canon who 
is trying to come from behind would offer B&W.

Martin


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Tyler Boley" <tyler@t...> 
wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Johnny Deadman <john@p...>
> wrote:
> > I hear from a normally very reliable source that Epson are working
> on a
> > dedicated monochrome quadtone printer. No, doesn't make any sense
> to me
> > either.
> > -- 
> > John Brownlow
> 
> I've heard that too, then also that it will never happen from an
> equally reliable source. With Epson, it's all about profit, we 
> don't represent a very big market. Recovering the costs of 
developing
> and bringing such a product to market would take 
> much longer than Epson is comfortable with. Even after that, how
> profitable would such a product really be?
> Look at the competition. Did the 2000P bring all the Generations and
> other 3rd party ink users back under the Epson fold?  
> Not even close, and other alternatives like the Cone color pigments
> still still come out under the shadow of the Epson pigs.
> Considering the alternative monochrome aproaches we have at this
> point, they would be jumping into crowded waters 
> with no gaurantees of grabbing the majority of a relatively small
> group of users.
> So, that's the aurgument against it, from a reliable source. But as 
I

> said, I heard it would happen from a reliable source too, 
> quite a while ago.
> Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> Tyler,
> 
> Just to add some points to your argument...

Right, the arguments against them doing it seem persuasive. The 
reliable rumors do seem to persist though.
Even if they did it, it's hard to imagine them outdoing some of the 
solutions we now enjoy. None of their advances the last few years seem 
to have met many of my needs compared to the third party offerings, 
even for color. I'm sure we're all apreciative of their hardware 
though, changed everything for me anyway.
One of the things I love most about their printers is how much we can 
screw them up putting all kinds of things into and through them, no 
matter how hard they try to stop us.

snip
>> to make a tritone.  Only thing I can think of better would be to make that
>> printer have a mode that allowed some variable tinting with the color heads
>> though use of printer sliders.  But now I digress into my wish list....
> 
> It could even allow for a couple of chambers for an epoxy style varnish to
> be applied on the fly. Epoxy style, meaning each component on it's own
> wouldn't harden (and clog the crap out of your heads) but when mixed on the
> paper, they'd form a nice bond....
> 
> Todd

Now that would be very nice too!  But I'd be happy with a inkjet varnish
that I could put into one of my older 3000s and then use after printing with
prints from the rumored new grayscale printer.  But I suspect that the
qualities that make an excellent varnish would tend to clog inkjet heads
most effectively.  But one can always hope!   Hmmm - hardener in one head
and varnish in the other and ----- okay, unbox that old 3000!!!

-- Dan Culbertson
so many years, so little time...

> Dan, its already here. MIS hextone inks and Paul Roark's curves!  No need now
> for Cone OR epson to
> come out with cold inks, or in Epson's case, quad or Hex inks.  Unless they
> are
> available in bulk, who cares? And Epson would never sell their ink in bulk!
> 
> Jer

Actually I was thinking of a single printer that would do standard color
CcMmYK printing *and/or* Kkk printing *and/or* Kkk printing with toning by
CMY on demand.  Rather a tall order but I am a notorious optimist -- it was
only about three or four years ago when I first lamented that no one
produced four gray inks so we could use them with a RIP with a manual
separation -- and look where that has gone!  So don't be too surprised if
you see a true be-all end-all printer if enough folks keep (publicly)
wishing for one!

-- Dan Culbertson
so many years, so little time..

> Truly a dream machine.
> 
> Appearing at a printer store near you 10 minutes after I become room
> temperature!
> 
> 
> Jerry

I wouldn't risk cutting my time quite that short if I were you. :-)

Dan