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Thread

Problems with Shadow detail...

Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-04 by rickbehl

Hi all,

Wonder if someone can help before I pull out the rest of my remaining
hair on my already balding head...

I have just purchased the Spyder3 studio. I calibrated my monitor with
the Spyder3 Elite and also a paper/ink combination for my printer
using the Spyder3 Print 1005 device. (Paper = Hahnemuhle Photo Rag,
Ink = Epson Ultrachrome, Printer = Epson 3800). 

On printing however I noticed that although the general colours of my
print look good there is not enough detail in the shadows (which I
could see on the screen). I have also noticed that after calibrating
my monitor using the Spyder3 device I cannot see as much detail in the
shadows on a Black and White test image as I could before (previously
I was using the Eye One Display 2 calibration device).

Any help please would be really appreciated !

Thanks,
Rick

Re: [Digital BW] Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-04 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 9/4/08 12:36:52 PM, RickBehl@... writes:


> Wonder if someone can help before I pull out the rest of my remaining
> hair on my already balding head...
> 
> I have just purchased the Spyder3 studio. I calibrated my monitor with
> the Spyder3 Elite and also a paper/ink combination for my printer
> using the Spyder3 Print 1005 device. (Paper = Hahnemuhle Photo Rag,
> Ink = Epson Ultrachrome, Printer = Epson 3800).
> 
> On printing however I noticed that although the general colours of my
> print look good there is not enough detail in the shadows (which I
> could see on the screen). I have also noticed that after calibrating
> my monitor using the Spyder3 device I cannot see as much detail in the
> shadows on a Black and White test image as I could before (previously
> I was using the Eye One Display 2 calibration device).
> 
Well, for the prints there is a shadow detail slider that you can use to open 
up the shadows, just reselect your target file, and rebuild with a slider 
adjustment. Your "shadow detail on screen" issue sounds like its a 
settings/target issue. You don't mention what OS, what type of display, or what 
settings/target values you are calibrating to, so its difficult to offer any specific 
assistance.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
It's only a deal if it's where you 
want to go. Find your travel deal here.
      
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-04 by Mark Savoia

You should e-mail C. David Tobie directly, he can troubleshoot for  
you. CDTobie@...


Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Sep 4, 2008, at 12:36 PM, rickbehl wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Wonder if someone can help before I pull out the rest of my remaining
> hair on my already balding head...
>
> I have just purchased the Spyder3 studio. I calibrated my monitor with
> the Spyder3 Elite and also a paper/ink combination for my printer
> using the Spyder3 Print 1005 device. (Paper = Hahnemuhle Photo Rag,
> Ink = Epson Ultrachrome, Printer = Epson 3800).
>
> On printing however I noticed that although the general colours of my
> print look good there is not enough detail in the shadows (which I
> could see on the screen). I have also noticed that after calibrating
> my monitor using the Spyder3 device I cannot see as much detail in the
> shadows on a Black and White test image as I could before (previously
> I was using the Eye One Display 2 calibration device).
>
> Any help please would be really appreciated !
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-04 by Andrew Darlow

Hi Rick:

First, I would try a different rendering intent. Perceptual or Rel.  
Colorimetric (or even Saturation, which ColorVision suggests).

If that doesn't help, I'd re-read the test chart after waiting a day  
(you may have done this already). My favorite way to open shadow  
detail is Shadow/Highlight in Photoshop, but that's not exactly an  
answer if you were getting good detail before.

Hope that helps,

Andrew

---------------------------------------------------
Andrew Darlow
Editor, The Imaging Buffet
http://www.imagingbuffet.com
Author, 301 Inkjet Tips and Techniques:
An Essential Printing Resource for Photographers - http:// 
www.inkjettips.com


On Sep 4, 2008, at 12:36 PM, rickbehl wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Wonder if someone can help before I pull out the rest of my remaining
> hair on my already balding head...
>
> I have just purchased the Spyder3 studio. I calibrated my monitor with
> the Spyder3 Elite and also a paper/ink combination for my printer
> using the Spyder3 Print 1005 device. (Paper = Hahnemuhle Photo Rag,
> Ink = Epson Ultrachrome, Printer = Epson 3800).
>
> On printing however I noticed that although the general colours of my
> print look good there is not enough detail in the shadows (which I
> could see on the screen). I have also noticed that after calibrating
> my monitor using the Spyder3 device I cannot see as much detail in the
> shadows on a Black and White test image as I could before (previously
> I was using the Eye One Display 2 calibration device).
>
> Any help please would be really appreciated !
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
>
>
> __
> 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-05 by rickbehl

Thanks for the reply. 

In answer to your questions:

OS: Windows XP
Display: Dell LCD 1703FP
Calibration settings: 2.2 - 6500k

Does this help ?

Thanks in advance,
Rick


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 9/4/08 12:36:52 PM, RickBehl@... writes:
> 
> 
> > Wonder if someone can help before I pull out the rest of my remaining
> > hair on my already balding head...
> > 
> > I have just purchased the Spyder3 studio. I calibrated my monitor with
> > the Spyder3 Elite and also a paper/ink combination for my printer
> > using the Spyder3 Print 1005 device. (Paper = Hahnemuhle Photo Rag,
> > Ink = Epson Ultrachrome, Printer = Epson 3800).
> > 
> > On printing however I noticed that although the general colours of my
> > print look good there is not enough detail in the shadows (which I
> > could see on the screen). I have also noticed that after calibrating
> > my monitor using the Spyder3 device I cannot see as much detail in the
> > shadows on a Black and White test image as I could before (previously
> > I was using the Eye One Display 2 calibration device).
> > 
> Well, for the prints there is a shadow detail slider that you can
use to open 
> up the shadows, just reselect your target file, and rebuild with a
slider 
> adjustment. Your "shadow detail on screen" issue sounds like its a 
> settings/target issue. You don't mention what OS, what type of
display, or what 
> settings/target values you are calibrating to, so its difficult to
offer any specific 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> assistance.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor
> CDTobie@...
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
> 
> 
> **************
> It's only a deal if it's where you 
> want to go. Find your travel deal here.
>       
> (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-05 by rickbehl

I've been using Perceptual with Black Point off. I would prefer not to
fix things in Photoshop if I shouldn't need to.

Rgds
Rick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Darlow
<ad@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi Rick:
> 
> First, I would try a different rendering intent. Perceptual or Rel.  
> Colorimetric (or even Saturation, which ColorVision suggests).
> 
> If that doesn't help, I'd re-read the test chart after waiting a day  
> (you may have done this already). My favorite way to open shadow  
> detail is Shadow/Highlight in Photoshop, but that's not exactly an  
> answer if you were getting good detail before.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> 
> Andrew
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Andrew Darlow
> Editor, The Imaging Buffet
> http://www.imagingbuffet.com
> Author, 301 Inkjet Tips and Techniques:
> An Essential Printing Resource for Photographers - http:// 
> www.inkjettips.com
> 
> 
> On Sep 4, 2008, at 12:36 PM, rickbehl wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Wonder if someone can help before I pull out the rest of my remaining
> > hair on my already balding head...
> >
> > I have just purchased the Spyder3 studio. I calibrated my monitor with
> > the Spyder3 Elite and also a paper/ink combination for my printer
> > using the Spyder3 Print 1005 device. (Paper = Hahnemuhle Photo Rag,
> > Ink = Epson Ultrachrome, Printer = Epson 3800).
> >
> > On printing however I noticed that although the general colours of my
> > print look good there is not enough detail in the shadows (which I
> > could see on the screen). I have also noticed that after calibrating
> > my monitor using the Spyder3 device I cannot see as much detail in the
> > shadows on a Black and White test image as I could before (previously
> > I was using the Eye One Display 2 calibration device).
> >
> > Any help please would be really appreciated !
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > __
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-05 by Andrew Darlow

Hi Rick:

I would crop a small section and print using Perceptual w/ Black  
Point Comp on. Then I would print the same area with Rel Col and  
Saturation intents. That's a quick way to see if there are differences.

All the best,

Andrew
---------------------------------------------------
Andrew Darlow
Editor, The Imaging Buffet
http://www.imagingbuffet.com
Author, 301 Inkjet Tips and Techniques:
An Essential Printing Resource for Photographers - http:// 
www.inkjettips.com


On Sep 4, 2008, at 9:16 PM, rickbehl wrote:

>
> I've been using Perceptual with Black Point off. I would prefer not to
> fix things in Photoshop if I shouldn't need to.
>
> Rgds
> Rick
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Darlow
> <ad@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rick:
> >
> > First, I would try a different rendering intent. Perceptual or Rel.
> > Colorimetric (or even Saturation, which ColorVision suggests).
> >
> > If that doesn't help, I'd re-read the test chart after waiting a day
> > (you may have done this already). My favorite way to open shadow
> > detail is Shadow/Highlight in Photoshop, but that's not exactly an
> > answer if you were getting good detail before.
> >
> > Hope that helps,
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > Andrew Darlow
> > Editor, The Imaging Buffet
> > http://www.imagingbuffet.com
> > Author, 301 Inkjet Tips and Techniques:
> > An Essential Printing Resource for Photographers - http://
> > www.inkjettips.com
> >
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2008, at 12:36 PM, rickbehl wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Wonder if someone can help before I pull out the rest of my  
> remaining
> > > hair on my already balding head...
> > >
> > > I have just purchased the Spyder3 studio. I calibrated my  
> monitor with
> > > the Spyder3 Elite and also a paper/ink combination for my printer
> > > using the Spyder3 Print 1005 device. (Paper = Hahnemuhle Photo  
> Rag,
> > > Ink = Epson Ultrachrome, Printer = Epson 3800).
> > >
> > > On printing however I noticed that although the general colours  
> of my
> > > print look good there is not enough detail in the shadows (which I
> > > could see on the screen). I have also noticed that after  
> calibrating
> > > my monitor using the Spyder3 device I cannot see as much detail  
> in the
> > > shadows on a Black and White test image as I could before  
> (previously
> > > I was using the Eye One Display 2 calibration device).
> > >
> > > Any help please would be really appreciated !
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> __._






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 9/4/08 9:16:53 PM, RickBehl@... writes:


> I've been using Perceptual with Black Point off. I would prefer not to
> fix things in Photoshop if I shouldn't need to.
> 

BPC off would be correct for the deepest possible blacks with Datacolor 
profiles. If you then find that these deep blacks are causing loss of visible 
shadow detail at the light levels you are displaying under, it would be better to 
use the shadow detail slider to adjust that, then to risk weaker blacks by 
invoking BPC.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


**************
It's only a deal if it's where you 
want to go. Find your travel deal here.
      
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-05 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 9/4/08 9:13:23 PM, RickBehl@... writes:


> In answer to your questions:
> 
> OS: Windows XP
> 
XP shouldn't be a problem as long as you are only calibrating one display...

> Display: Dell LCD 1703FP
> 
This is a low costs display (under $200). I'm not trying to be a snob here, 
its just that the type of screen used in this grade of display is not the same 
as that used in Graphics grade displays (several hundred buck range) or 
Advanced Graphic displays (thousands). It should be calibratable, but keep these 
limitations in mind, if you are expecting the last gasp of control or accuracy...

> Calibration settings: 2.2 - 6500k
> 
Thats a start, and if you are using Spyder3PRO, thats all the choices you 
will have, other than invoking the ambient light feature, which could help 
produce settings with better shadow detail. If you are using Elite, then I'd suggest 
trying some of the advanced settings, such as L-Star calibration. Let us know 
your results.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3



**************
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel 
deal here.
      
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-05 by richardeskin

I calibrate with an i1, but found that (1) I need to use the advanced 
calibration to calibrate luminosity and (2) the recommended value of 
120 is way too high and that 85-90 generally works better.

Good luck!


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "rickbehl" 
<RickBehl@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> 
> Wonder if someone can help before I pull out the rest of my 
remaining
> hair on my already balding head...
> 
> I have just purchased the Spyder3 studio. I calibrated my monitor 
with
> the Spyder3 Elite and also a paper/ink combination for my printer
> using the Spyder3 Print 1005 device. (Paper = Hahnemuhle Photo Rag,
> Ink = Epson Ultrachrome, Printer = Epson 3800). 
> 
> On printing however I noticed that although the general colours of 
my
> print look good there is not enough detail in the shadows (which I
> could see on the screen). I have also noticed that after calibrating
> my monitor using the Spyder3 device I cannot see as much detail in 
the
> shadows on a Black and White test image as I could before 
(previously
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I was using the Eye One Display 2 calibration device).
> 
> Any help please would be really appreciated !
> 
> Thanks,
> Rick
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Problems with Shadow detail...

2008-09-06 by Cdtobie

What screen luminance is appropriate will depend on your ambient light  
levels.

C. D. Tobie
WW Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
DataColor.com
CDTobie@...

On Sep 5, 2008, at 7:46 PM, "richardeskin"  
<richeskinphoto@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I calibrate with an i1, but found that (1) I need to use the advanced
> calibration to calibrate luminosity and (2) the recommended value of
> 120 is way too high and that 85-90 generally works better.
>
> Good luck!
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "rickbehl"
> <RickBehl@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Wonder if someone can help before I pull out the rest of my
> remaining
>> hair on my already balding head...
>>
>> I have just purchased the Spyder3 studio. I calibrated my monitor
> with
>> the Spyder3 Elite and also a paper/ink combination for my printer
>> using the Spyder3 Print 1005 device. (Paper = Hahnemuhle Photo Rag,
>> Ink = Epson Ultrachrome, Printer = Epson 3800).
>>
>> On printing however I noticed that although the general colours of
> my
>> print look good there is not enough detail in the shadows (which I
>> could see on the screen). I have also noticed that after calibrating
>> my monitor using the Spyder3 device I cannot see as much detail in
> the
>> shadows on a Black and White test image as I could before
> (previously
>> I was using the Eye One Display 2 calibration device).
>>
>> Any help please would be really appreciated !
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rick
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and  
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the 
>  Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNE 
> R” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT  
> BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONS 
> EQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGE 
> S FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSE 
> S (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT  
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), R 
> ESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, T 
> HE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF Y 
> OUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD  
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MA 
> TTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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