Digital BW, The Print

Any ideas on how to un-clog a nasty cyan channel on an R-800?

I ran cleaning carts and let the printer set overnight. I'm in the 
process of a puddle clean with a mixture of 90% distilled water and 10% 
amonia. I plan to leave it sit overnight, too.

Isn't there a way to manually flush the head(s)? 

Paul......?

I'd keep the cleaning cart(s) in for a few days and run a few MIS R800
purge test prints on plain paper each day.  It should clear soon. 
This worked for me when I unplugged my R220 with carts not in the park
position and forgot about it for a month.

Roger


 In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scott_now_coming"
<scott_now_coming@...> wrote:

>
> Any ideas on how to un-clog a nasty cyan channel on an R-800?
> 
> I ran cleaning carts and let the printer set overnight. I'm in the 
> process of a puddle clean with a mixture of 90% distilled water and 10% 
> amonia. I plan to leave it sit overnight, too.
> 
> Isn't there a way to manually flush the head(s)? 
> 
> Paul......?
>

> Any ideas on how to un-clog a nasty cyan channel on an R-800?
> 
> I ran cleaning carts and let the printer set overnight. I'm in the 
> process of a puddle clean with a mixture of 90% distilled water and 
10% 
> amonia. I plan to leave it sit overnight, too.
> 
> Isn't there a way to manually flush the head(s)? 
> 

If the cleaning cart and Windex or ammonia on the pad over night (or 
for days) does not work, try a syringe with a tube on it, Windex or an 
ammonia mix in it, and direct injection into the head via the normal 
inlet.  The last serious clog I had was on my 7500 where I could not 
use a cleaning cart.  Not a single jet was firing.  I pulled the damper 
(K position) and injected Windex -- with some rather energetic pusshing 
and pulling on the syringe.  I also put a dilute mix in the damper and 
put the system back together.  The next morning after one cleaning 
cycle the nozzles were perfect.  

No guarantees, but the Epson authorized repair person in the area 
showed me the same trick.  He squired cleaning fluid through heads he'd 
removed from printers to clean them out.

For what it's worth ...

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Create a solid block of cyan (as wide as the papaer your using and about 3 inches in height)�as an image then send to the printer and crank up the cyan in the driver setting to try and flush out. It has worked for me in the past with tough clogs.
�
Best, Charles

--- On Tue, 10/7/08, scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@...> wrote:

From: scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@...>
Subject: [Digital BW] R-800 Nasty cyan clog
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 8:11 AM






Any ideas on how to un-clog a nasty cyan channel on an R-800?

I ran cleaning carts and let the printer set overnight. I'm in the 
process of a puddle clean with a mixture of 90% distilled water and 10% 
amonia. I plan to leave it sit overnight, too.

Isn't there a way to manually flush the head(s)? 

Paul......?

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, but I'm at a "last resort" here. I've printed lieterly TONS 
of purge patterns and solid blocks of cyan pages. I've run cleaning 
carts for a couple of weeks.

This is MAJOR. I'm thinking the printing head may be gone. I'm 
getting NO ink through the head. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.... you 
get the point. :~)

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Charles Becker 
<gypyjunior@...> wrote:
>
> Create a solid block of cyan (as wide as the papaer your using and 
about 3 inches in height) as an image then send to the printer and 
crank up the cyan in the driver setting to try and flush out. It has 
worked for me in the past with tough clogs.
>  
> Best, Charles
> 
> --- On Tue, 10/7/08, scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@...> wrote:
> 
> From: scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@...>
> Subject: [Digital BW] R-800 Nasty cyan clog
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 8:11 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas on how to un-clog a nasty cyan channel on an R-800?
> 
> I ran cleaning carts and let the printer set overnight. I'm in the 
> process of a puddle clean with a mixture of 90% distilled water and 
10% 

> amonia. I plan to leave it sit overnight, too.
> 
> Isn't there a way to manually flush the head(s)? 
> 
> Paul......?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I am planing to mix multiple shades of b&w inks from Photo Black (PK) 
for printing on glossy paper. I have a few questions:

Is photo black a result of mixed color inks? What is a good ink base 
formula for mixing with photo black - I wish there is a version of 
colorless Windex :).

What is a good ratio of ink base vs PK ink? For example,
    3 shades: 100% PK, 50% PK, 12.5% PK
    4 shades: 100% PK, 50% PK, 25% PK, 12.5% PK
    6 shades: 100%PK, 75% PK, 50% PK, 25% PK, 12.5% PK, 6.25% PK
    8 shades: Any benefits for that many shades?

Thanks,
- Philip

Philip,

> I am planing to mix multiple shades of b&w inks from Photo Black (PK) 
> for printing on glossy paper. I have a few questions:
> 
> Is photo black a result of mixed color inks?

MIS PK that is 100% carbon pigment in most of it's sets.  Those that 
are blended with color pigments generally are called "PKN" or the like.

> What is a good ink base 
> formula for mixing with photo black - I wish there is a version of 
> colorless Windex :).

MIS Glop is the base I recommend for their glossy inks.

> 
> What is a good ratio of ink base vs PK ink?

The standard dilution for PK to LK, and LK to LLK is 30% darker ink, 
70% clear base.  I've used ratios of from 1:1 to 1:3 with the Epson 
driver crossovers and had them work fine.

> For example,
>     3 shades: 100% PK, 50% PK, 12.5% PK
>     4 shades: 100% PK, 50% PK, 25% PK, 12.5% PK
>     6 shades: 100%PK, 75% PK, 50% PK, 25% PK, 12.5% PK, 6.25% PK
>     8 shades: Any benefits for that many shades?

The inksets with many shades often use one that is close to 2% black, 
98% clear base.  You'd be surprised at how dilute you can go.  You're 
examples are rather dark in comparison.  On the other hand, the 
standard UT-C (darkest dilute carbon ink) is denser than the 30% PK 
because it was based on the higher load MK, not the PK, since the early 
focus was on matte papers.  

Good luck with the mixing.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks Paul. Actually I was reading your writing about Carbon-6 just a 
few minutes ago and starting realize my example of mix might be too dark.

So the better mixes can be:
3 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK 10% PK
4 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK, 10% PK, 3.3% PK
6 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK, 16.7% PK, 8.3% PK, 4.2% PK, 2.1%PK

Thanks,
- Philip


pr_roark wrote:

>
> Philip,
>
> > I am planing to mix multiple shades of b&w inks from Photo Black (PK)
> > for printing on glossy paper. I have a few questions:
> >
> > Is photo black a result of mixed color inks?
>
> MIS PK that is 100% carbon pigment in most of it's sets. Those that
> are blended with color pigments generally are called "PKN" or the like.
>
> > What is a good ink base
> > formula for mixing with photo black - I wish there is a version of
> > colorless Windex :).
>
> MIS Glop is the base I recommend for their glossy inks.
>
> >
> > What is a good ratio of ink base vs PK ink?
>
> The standard dilution for PK to LK, and LK to LLK is 30% darker ink,
> 70% clear base. I've used ratios of from 1:1 to 1:3 with the Epson
> driver crossovers and had them work fine.
>
> > For example,
> > 3 shades: 100% PK, 50% PK, 12.5% PK
> > 4 shades: 100% PK, 50% PK, 25% PK, 12.5% PK
> > 6 shades: 100%PK, 75% PK, 50% PK, 25% PK, 12.5% PK, 6.25% PK
> > 8 shades: Any benefits for that many shades?
>
> The inksets with many shades often use one that is close to 2% black,
> 98% clear base. You'd be surprised at how dilute you can go. You're
> examples are rather dark in comparison. On the other hand, the
> standard UT-C (darkest dilute carbon ink) is denser than the 30% PK
> because it was based on the higher load MK, not the PK, since the early
> focus was on matte papers.
>
> Good luck with the mixing.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>

Philip,

>  I was reading your writing about Carbon-6 just a 
> few minutes ago and starting realize my example of mix 
> might be too dark.
> 
> So the better mixes can be:
> 3 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK 10% PK
> 4 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK, 10% PK, 3.3% PK
> 6 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK, 16.7% PK, 8.3% PK, 4.2% PK, 2.1%PK
> 

In the C6 mix I used 33% MK for the darkest mix.  This was selected due 
to the ease of mixing.  It would allow those who did not have scales 
more easily mix the inkset.  Since it was close to the usual 
darkest "traditional" B&W dilution of 30% MK, I figured it's work well, 
and it does in older printers.  However, note that I've reverted to a 
30% Eboni mix for the k3 printers.  It turns out the 33% is too dark 
for k3 printers and some papers.  It results in inadequate separation 
or even posterization in the deep shadows when the Epson driver is 
used.  It appears this is caused by the k3 gray substitution 
algorithm.  The 33% mix works fine in the k2 printers.

This may not affect you at all with PK and if you're not using the 
Epson driver, but it illustrates something important.

While 30% is the usual dilution of PK to make LK, etc., and 30% MK is 
the "traditional" B&W darkest mix, this 30% mix is a considerably 
higher load than LK.  The LK density can be mixed from MK if about 18% 
MK is used.  

In terms of print density, however, to put the LK (18% MK) in 
perspective, recall that the dilution-ratio to print-density curve is 
very non-linear as the pigment load gets high.  Actually, this curve is 
very non-linear at both ends.  That explains how a 2% dilution can 
cover about 25% of the print range.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks Paul. I will start to set up the ink and printer using your 
suggestions.

I find there is still a need for B&W inkjet printing onto a more glossy 
paper than pure matte surface - satin or semi-glossy. Sometimes I feel 
we may be should revisit dye-based ink for b&w printing.

Thanks,
Philip

pr_roark wrote:

>
> Philip,
>
> > I was reading your writing about Carbon-6 just a
> > few minutes ago and starting realize my example of mix
> > might be too dark.
> >
> > So the better mixes can be:
> > 3 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK 10% PK
> > 4 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK, 10% PK, 3.3% PK
> > 6 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK, 16.7% PK, 8.3% PK, 4.2% PK, 2.1%PK
> >
>
> In the C6 mix I used 33% MK for the darkest mix. This was selected due
> to the ease of mixing. It would allow those who did not have scales
> more easily mix the inkset. Since it was close to the usual
> darkest "traditional" B&W dilution of 30% MK, I figured it's work well,
> and it does in older printers. However, note that I've reverted to a
> 30% Eboni mix for the k3 printers. It turns out the 33% is too dark
> for k3 printers and some papers. It results in inadequate separation
> or even posterization in the deep shadows when the Epson driver is
> used. It appears this is caused by the k3 gray substitution
> algorithm. The 33% mix works fine in the k2 printers.
>
> This may not affect you at all with PK and if you're not using the
> Epson driver, but it illustrates something important.
>
> While 30% is the usual dilution of PK to make LK, etc., and 30% MK is
> the "traditional" B&W darkest mix, this 30% mix is a considerably
> higher load than LK. The LK density can be mixed from MK if about 18%
> MK is used.
>
> In terms of print density, however, to put the LK (18% MK) in
> perspective, recall that the dilution-ratio to print-density curve is
> very non-linear as the pigment load gets high. Actually, this curve is
> very non-linear at both ends. That explains how a 2% dilution can
> cover about 25% of the print range.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>

You can print with the matte inks onto satin or semi-gloss no problem.
You just need to finish the print with either a glop over print or
spray varnish, to get rid of the bornzing.
Probably best to give it several light coats of glop or varnish.

I've experimented with this on IGFS with Cone inks and it works great.

Mike


2008/10/12 Pacific New Media <panmedia@...>:

> Thanks Paul. I will start to set up the ink and printer using your
> suggestions.
>
> I find there is still a need for B&W inkjet printing onto a more glossy
> paper than pure matte surface - satin or semi-glossy. Sometimes I feel
> we may be should revisit dye-based ink for b&w printing.
>
> Thanks,
> Philip
>
> pr_roark wrote:
>>
>> Philip,
>>
>> > I was reading your writing about Carbon-6 just a
>> > few minutes ago and starting realize my example of mix
>> > might be too dark.
>> >
>> > So the better mixes can be:
>> > 3 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK 10% PK
>> > 4 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK, 10% PK, 3.3% PK
>> > 6 shades: 100% PK, 33% PK, 16.7% PK, 8.3% PK, 4.2% PK, 2.1%PK
>> >
>>
>> In the C6 mix I used 33% MK for the darkest mix. This was selected due
>> to the ease of mixing. It would allow those who did not have scales
>> more easily mix the inkset. Since it was close to the usual
>> darkest "traditional" B&W dilution of 30% MK, I figured it's work well,
>> and it does in older printers. However, note that I've reverted to a
>> 30% Eboni mix for the k3 printers. It turns out the 33% is too dark
>> for k3 printers and some papers. It results in inadequate separation
>> or even posterization in the deep shadows when the Epson driver is
>> used. It appears this is caused by the k3 gray substitution
>> algorithm. The 33% mix works fine in the k2 printers.
>>
>> This may not affect you at all with PK and if you're not using the
>> Epson driver, but it illustrates something important.
>>
>> While 30% is the usual dilution of PK to make LK, etc., and 30% MK is
>> the "traditional" B&W darkest mix, this 30% mix is a considerably
>> higher load than LK. The LK density can be mixed from MK if about 18%
>> MK is used.
>>
>> In terms of print density, however, to put the LK (18% MK) in
>> perspective, recall that the dilution-ratio to print-density curve is
>> very non-linear as the pigment load gets high. Actually, this curve is
>> very non-linear at both ends. That explains how a 2% dilution can
>> cover about 25% of the print range.
>>
>> Paul
>> www.PaulRoark.com
>>
>>
>
>
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Philip writ:

>  I find there is still a need for B&W inkjet printing onto a more 
> glossy
>  paper than pure matte surface - satin or semi-glossy. Sometimes I feel
>  we may be should revisit dye-based ink for b&w printing.

This is the reason why I've stuck with HP's 8750 for both my color and 
b/w printing: archival dye inks (which do need to be used with HP's 
papers for optimum stability, though I suspect other "swellable" papers 
might work nearly as well). I simply got tired of dealing with the 
standard-issue artifacts of most pigment-ink setups (third-party or 
factory "turnkey" systems), and wanted great results for 
black-and-white *and* color. This printer (which HP just recently 
discontinued) has done it for me. Mind you, Epson, HP and Canon are 
still toying with dye-based formulas for just this reason. 
(Traditionally, pigment inks provide the best image stability, but 
wreak havoc in terms of visual artifacts�metamerism, bronzing, and 
gloss differential�particularly with glossy or semi-gloss/satin papers, 
right up to this day, although the best pigs have minimized this to a 
degree). I have to say that if it hadn't been for the efforts of Paul 
Roark and company, we'd be in *far* worse shape than we're in now. That 
being said, I don't think "dye is dead" by a long shot. (It had better 
not be: my current solo show in Red Hook, Brooklyn, is riding on this. 
:-)


- Barrett


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul,

Can the ink base suggested in your carbon-6 document be used to dilute 
MIS dye based black ink ?

Or in general, the ink base for pigment ink and dye ink, do they have 
different requirements?

Thanks
-  Philip
>
>

I assume the ink bases are different for pigment and dye inks.  I've 
never looked into the composition of the dye bases.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Pacific New Media 
<panmedia@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> 
> Can the ink base suggested in your carbon-6 document be used to 
dilute 

> MIS dye based black ink ?
> 
> Or in general, the ink base for pigment ink and dye ink, do they have 
> different requirements?
> 
> Thanks
> -  Philip
> >
> >
>