Digital BW, The Print

I do not doubt the 17 stops. I do believe the results would not be linear.

> I do not doubt the 17 stops. 
> I do believe the results would not be linear.


That's a big reason I take multiple shots with roll film (or digital).  
Even though my film and scanning can get some information from, for 
example, extreme highlights, the image information is usually 
significantly better from the portions of the curve that better 
separation and lower noise.

(Is there a digital equivalent to the 1 - 2% pre-flashing of slide film 
we used to occasionally do to increase the deep shadow sensitity?)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Fred,

I'm sure that's correct - though I don't try to measure it.  It does result
in a challenge when working with such a file to represent my desired
contrasts in each different area of the final print.  And the compression
referred to earlier requires some areas of the image to be stretched more to
obtain that desired contrast.  So, lots of local work all over an image.
But then, that's what I enjoy and that's what 16 bit Photoshop is for!

Steve Gledhill

www.virtuallygrey.co.uk <http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/> 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Sent: 07 October 2008 22:49
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] 17 stops of Linear latitude

I do not doubt the 17 stops. I do believe the results would not be linear. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> 
> (Is there a digital equivalent to the 1 - 2% pre-flashing of slide film 
> we used to occasionally do to increase the deep shadow sensitity?)
> 

 Paul, that is called 'bumping'. Very useful when trying to open shadow/deep areas on 
transparency. You could 'color' the bump with filtration to somewhat change the deeper hues.

Have you ever tried 'laintensification'? It has been many years but I do remember that 
working very well with good linear results. It was a post capture pre-process intensifier.

Fred

Fred, that's not digital, is it?

I've thought about this and I don't think there is an equivalent in the 
digital world. If bumping is digital, is it only for scans, e.g., do you 
do multiple scans and "add" them?

Roger


Fred wrote:

> 
> 
> 
>  >
>  > (Is there a digital equivalent to the 1 - 2% pre-flashing of slide film
>  > we used to occasionally do to increase the deep shadow sensitity?)
>  >
> 
> Paul, that is called 'bumping'. Very useful when trying to open 
> shadow/deep areas on
> transparency. You could 'color' the bump with filtration to somewhat 
> change the deeper hues.
> 
> Have you ever tried 'laintensification'? It has been many years but I do 
> remember that
> working very well with good linear results. It was a post capture 
> pre-process intensifier.
> 
> Fred

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Roger <user1@...> wrote:

> Fred, that's not digital, is it?
 
 Nope. That is in the chemical world. Digitally, If I have a difficult scene range-wise I do what 
most others do, bracket or raw process a range.

> I've thought about this and I don't think there is an equivalent in the 
> digital world. If bumping is digital, is it only for scans, e.g., do you 
> do multiple scans and "add" them?

Again, if its a difficult one, yes I will scan for hilite and/or shadow.

There is a method that I once used before photoshop Shadow/Highlight was around. I don't 
remember it well. It may have been some Dan Margulis method.  

Fred

Those interested in dynamic range and A/D conversion may be interested  
in the material here:

http://www.normankoren.com/digital_tonality.html

Personally, I think that in order to preserve the maximum amount of  
information through the analog to digital conversion (whether that is  
done at the scanner from high bandwidth film or from the high  
bandwidth scene direct to digital) one will only retain maximum  
information with multiple exposures.  After all, a scanner merely  
projects light towards film and measures the output.  Not that much  
different from direct digital capture.  If the camera/scanner has a  
high bit depth it can capture more levels within the range and allow  
more room for maneouvre within Photoshop before degradation occurs.   
If you have two exposures then you can compress those exposures with  
more artistic freedom.

Roger <user1@...> wrote:
>
> ... I don't think there is an equivalent in the digital world. 

I don't think the digital sensors have the "threshold" to overcome that 
was, apparently, what was behind the pre-flashing effectiveness in film.

Some of us experimented briefly with filters to, in effect, "partition" 
the RGB sensor.  See near the bottom of the page at 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ 

I didn't do much follow-up on this, but the use of filters with digital 
cameras is still an area that intrigues me.  In addition to the 
possibility of extending the dynamic range, I wonder about possible 
effects on sharpness, perhaps by dealing with the color fringing.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> > 
> >  >
> >  > (Is there a digital equivalent to the 1 - 2% 
> >  > pre-flashing of slide film we used to 
> >  > occasionally do to increase the deep shadow sensitity?)

I believe that shooting 3-color( three exposures) plates goes back to the earliest days of color photography. It seems to me, also, that this could be  quite useful with some exposures.

I often suggest to people that they experiment with filters, but I can't seem to follow my own advice  :  )

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 10/8/2008 at 7:37 PM pr_roark wrote:

>Roger <user1@...> wrote:
>>
>> ... I don't think there is an equivalent in the digital world. 
>
>I don't think the digital sensors have the "threshold" to overcome that 
>was, apparently, what was behind the pre-flashing effectiveness in film.
>
>Some of us experimented briefly with filters to, in effect, "partition" 
>the RGB sensor.  See near the bottom of the page at 
>http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ 
>
>I didn't do much follow-up on this, but the use of filters with digital 
>cameras is still an area that intrigues me.  In addition to the 
>possibility of extending the dynamic range, I wonder about possible 
>effects on sharpness, perhaps by dealing with the color fringing.
>
>Paul
>www.PaulRoark.com 
>
>
>
>> > 
>> >  >
>> >  > (Is there a digital equivalent to the 1 - 2% 
>> >  > pre-flashing of slide film we used to 
>> >  > occasionally do to increase the deep shadow sensitity?)
>
>
>
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