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cis vs manual filling of chipped carts

cis vs manual filling of chipped carts

2002-02-10 by Bill Agee

Sorry for sending this originally with wrong header (which rip)
I sent this to color list also....might be some overlap

Wanting to try some different inks in my 1270 printer, I figured that 
using a nomorecarts cis solution would be the way to go, but recently 
noticed the trouble some people are having. Also, it seems like it 
would be a pain to keep changing inksets using one of those units. 
Whether that is the case or not, I don't mind filling carts, just 
want to know if reliable chipped carts exist that work well.  I can 
fill a lot of carts ( while watching the nightly news) for the $250 
tag of a cis.

Looking at...

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/cartridges.html

...I noticed that MIS sells chipped cartridges filled with their own 
pigment archival ink...They are convenient, though expensive.  They 
also sell T009 and TOO7  empty cartridges.  Chips are extra.  They 
sell a chip re_setter to show full condition when cartridges are 
loaded.

Does anyone on this list use this MIS virgin ink cartridge system and 
if so is it working ok?  What are poppets?  Are they the little metal 
studs that go into the bottom of the cartridge to keep the ink from 
leaking out?

Any on or off-forum information anyone has would be helpful.  I use 
this system for an 1160, but never with a chipped printer.

Bill Agee




-- 

b i l l  a g e e  s t u d i o
c a p i s t r a n o  b e a c h  c a l i f o r n i a

billagee@...
http://www.redsilver.com
http://www.billageestudio.com

Re: cis vs manual filling of chipped carts

2002-02-10 by jimhayes361

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Bill Agee <billagee@r...> 
wrote:

> Wanting to try some different inks in my 1270 printer, I figured 
that 
> using a nomorecarts cis solution would be the way to go,

maybe figure what ink you want to use long term first? And consider if 
CIS has a screen in the cart or not, etc.

 I don't mind filling carts, just 
> want to know if reliable chipped carts exist that work well.  I can 
> fill a lot of carts ( while watching the nightly news) for the $250 
> tag of a cis.

yes it's little problem.

> 
> Looking at...
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/cartridges.html
> 
> ...I noticed that MIS sells chipped cartridges filled with their own 
> pigment archival ink...They are convenient, though expensive.

I used a set of these on my 1280 and both the Y and K ran out 
prematurely, at 25% and 30% respectively. Coulds have been a bum set, 
but I can fill my own very accurately.

  They 
> also sell T009 and TOO7  empty cartridges.  Chips are extra.  They 
> sell a chip re_setter to show full condition when cartridges are 
> loaded.


Yes, and you just pop the chips on and off. I use a microdab of RTV 
glue. Or buy the virgins from WeInK, costs more, but chip attached. 
Then you can use their QB7 resetter (hardware) which works fine with 
the Too7, and fairly well with the T009- you have to guide it a bit 
more closely. WeInk (or mediastreet?) sells a different resetter (from 
Lyson) with a light on it for confirmation. The software resetter hung 
my Win98SE machine, but might work if you reset computer and printer 
first, and are using Win98 only on LPT port.
> 
> Does anyone on this list use this MIS virgin ink cartridge system 
and 
> if so is it working ok?

Yes. I beta tested MIS brand new vacuum top refil system for the 
carts, and it's pretty easy. Look under "news" on their site. This 
method doesn't damage the screens like the bottom fill method may, and 
it draws the ink in from the top, not bottom, so it gets to get 
filtered through the screen. MIS is a little skimpy on procedure but I 
wrote my own up, somewhere on my 'puter.


  What are poppets?

They are ingenious little valves that immeadieately seal the exit 
ports of EPSON carts only, when you remove them from 1280 say( 1160 
doesn't have them). So you can re-install EPSON cart another day, no 
problem with ink leakage or air pockets. After market carts haven't 
been able to copy, too bad, so these are only to be found on Epson 
origianl carts. The Virgin empties don't have them unfortunately.

  Are they the little 
metal 
> studs that go into the bottom of the cartridge to keep the ink from 
> leaking out?


Not at all. Those are metal rivets MIS sells to plug the exit port on 
bottom of  non EPSON cart. Many people think they serve the same 
purpose, but I always got pockets of air that I patiently had to clear 
when I pulled them out and reinstalled aftermarket carts.


But you don't need to worry about poppets and rivits because the 
virgin empties are sealed at the bottom with a clear tape. After you 
fill the cart with the vacuum fill method, you install the cart and 
the seal gets punched through. Using the older bottom fill method, you 
do have to break the bottom seal and insert a rivit...but try the new 
method, it works fine.
> 
> Any on or off-forum information anyone has would be helpful.  I use 
> this system for an 1160, but never with a chipped printer.

Just a little more horsing around, that's all...
Jim H.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Bill Agee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> b i l l  a g e e  s t u d i o
> c a p i s t r a n o  b e a c h  c a l i f o r n i a
> 
> billagee@r...
> http://www.redsilver.com
> http://www.billageestudio.com

Re: cis vs manual filling of chipped carts

2002-02-13 by dellaellingson

Why are the MIS cartridges so expensive when they sell their bottled
inks for so little comparing it to prices from other manufacturers. I
would rather not use a CIS system. However, the MIS cartridge prices
seem like a highway robbery. They hold so little ink, maybe $1
compared to the bottle.

-Della


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Bill Agee <billagee@r...>
wrote:
> 
> Looking at...
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/cartridges.html
> 
> ...I noticed that MIS sells chipped cartridges filled with their
own 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> pigment archival ink...They are convenient, though expensive.  They 
> also sell T009 and TOO7  empty cartridges.  Chips are extra.  They 
> sell a chip re_setter to show full condition when cartridges are 
> loaded.

Re: cis vs manual filling of chipped carts

2002-02-13 by jimhayes361

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "dellaellingson" 
<dellaellingson@y...> wrote:
> Why are the MIS cartridges so expensive when they sell their bottled
> inks for so little comparing it to prices from other manufacturers. 
I
> would rather not use a CIS system. However, the MIS cartridge prices
> seem like a highway robbery. They hold so little ink, maybe $1
> compared to the bottle.
> 
> -Della
> 
> 
For an 1280 you can fill  virgin empty carts only six times before 
your 4 oz bottles run out. Each chamber holds 18 ml of ink, the 
complete set of hextone MIS VM ink held in each set of carts would 
then be $14.

Filling carts yourself cuts MIS price of around $52/ set of 1280 carts 
roughly in half.
Jim H.

[Digital BW] Re: cis vs manual filling of chipped carts

2002-02-13 by Bill Agee

Jim,

Thanks for the detailed post regarding your using the MIS vacuum top 
refill system using virgin ink carts.  I printed out all the 
pertinent information from the MIS front page "news" link.

Do I understand correctly that you never refill these carts, just 
toss them and fill new virgin carts each time?  If so, the single use 
cost is approximately $12 for carts  plus the bulk ink cost? For the 
1270/1280 it looks like it takes about 1/2 oz of ink per fill for a 
total of about $12 worth of ink.  So if I did my math correctly, this 
costs about $24 per set if you already have the chips to attach....I 
think you said you get yours with the chips attached for $5 more per 
chip.

I appreciate hearing your experiences as I am trying to decide 
whether I want to go with the flexibility of filling carts and being 
able to change compatible inks vs the convenience of using a CIS 
system. Right now I am not totally convinced which inkset I want to 
stay with. I want to compare some different ones like the MIS 
Perpetual Archival inks vs the MIS Original Archival inks.  It seems 
that this system makes it easy and reasonably cost effective to do 
that.

My only experience in filling carts is using the quadtone MIS inks on 
an 1160.  I was told to use the bottom fill system when I started. 
It seemed to work ok.  I take it that you all feel this vacuum method 
is technically better....gives cleaner ink... with the disadvantage 
that you can't refill the carts.

Bill Agee

-- 

b i l l  a g e e  s t u d i o
c a p i s t r a n o  b e a c h  c a l i f o r n i a

billagee@...
http://www.redsilver.com
http://www.billageestudio.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: cis vs manual filling of chipped carts

2002-02-13 by Todd Flashner

on 2/13/02 4:21 PM, Bill Agee wrote:

> My only experience in filling carts is using the quadtone MIS inks on
> an 1160.  I was told to use the bottom fill system when I started.
> It seemed to work ok.  I take it that you all feel this vacuum method
> is technically better....gives cleaner ink... with the disadvantage
> that you can't refill the carts.

Jim knows a lot more about this than I do, but the two filling methods need
not be mutually exclusive. You can do your first fill, when the carts are
fully sealed, via the vacuum method, and all subsequent fillings via the
bottom. There's no reason you couldn't do subsequent fillings with the
vacuum method too, provided you can fully reseal your carts. This might
require some experimentation to get right, and some messy vacuum apparatus
until you do...

MIS sells chips separately for $5 ea. Apparently if you buy a set just for
resetting (the Swedish method) you can get a lot of refills from a few
chips.

Todd

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