Digital BW, The Print

General question: If you use special lighting for viewing your prints,
what's your preferred light ? I'm thinking of getting/making something but
there are so many choices. What is everyone else using, if anything ?

 

-----------------------------------------------------

Brian Corll

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ideally you view the print in the light that it's going to be displayed 
in.  If you don't know what that'll be, then a daylight viewing booth 
can be handy.  You might consider making a booth that can switch between 
tungsten light and high cri fluorescent bulbs.

Brian,

The answer (in my opinion) depends on what you are trying to achieve.
 If you want to go with an industry standard so your lights match what
your local commercial printer is using, you are better off with a
viewing booth, or using lights that approach the D50 standard.  Solux
sells bayonet mount lights that are the closest I have found to D50.  

http://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/infopages/color-proofing.html

Also, Philips sells some fluorescent bulbs that are very good.  
http://www.bulbs.com/eSpec.aspx?ID=9361&Ref=Light+Bulbs&RefId=14

GTI and others make viewing booths, but they are generally pretty
expensive.  

Solux and others also make lights that are or a warmer temperature
than D50, but not as warm as incandescent, which are often used in
galleries, museums, etc.  

For my personal usage, I used the Solux 4700K bulbs in a Solux light
fixture, and also the Philips TL950 series fluorescent tubs(in a
standard fluorescent fixture that I bought at Home Depot).  

One of the most important considerations in proofing is adjusting the
light source so that a sheet of white paper displays approximately as
bright under the light, as does a white document displayed on your
monitor in Photoshop.  

Lou


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Corll"
<briancorll@...> wrote:
>
> General question: If you use special lighting for viewing your prints,
> what's your preferred light ? I'm thinking of getting/making
something but
> there are so many choices. What is everyone else using, if anything ?

Hi Brian:

Lighting is such an important part of proofing and viewing any print.  
I really like the original Solux Task Lamp, which comes with a SoLux  
4700K 50W bulb:

https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/19115.html

They also have a:
Clamp on Goose Neck Fixture without bulb: $69
(bulbs are about $10 ea)

and a Clip on Fixture with SoLux 4700K 50W bulb: $54.90

I wrote an article that includes some additional lighting info here:

http://tinyurl.com/2b3gfo

Which color temp to choose? I would use the 4700k and then purchase a  
3500k to simulate a typical home or office track light system. It is  
"safer" to proof under 4700k because if you proof under 3500k, there  
is a good possibility your work will be viewed under daylight, which  
will tend to make it look cool (or even greenish).

I've been using GTI fluorescent boxes for years and they produce a  
decent light, but they have spikes and the light is too flat for my  
taste when looking at inkjet prints (especially on matte papers).

All the best,

Andrew

---------------------------------------------------
Andrew Darlow
Editor, The Imaging Buffet
http://www.imagingbuffet.com
Author, 301 Inkjet Tips and Techniques:
An Essential Printing Resource for Photographers - http:// 
www.inkjettips.com


On Dec 25, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Brian Corll wrote:

> General question: If you use special lighting for viewing your prints,
> what's your preferred light ? I'm thinking of getting/making  
> something but
> there are so many choices. What is everyone else using, if anything ?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Brian Corll
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> __






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Related to this list,  there are some Solux users that 
prefer the 4100K version for B&W prints.
http://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/infopages/color-proofing.html

The Philips Diamondline 12V,  5.3 GU, Halogen, 50 and 35 
watt, 3500, 4100, 4700
Kelvin.are made with a license from Solux.  They are easier 
to get in Europe.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,  Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

If you are in the US., Home Depot sells both CF 
and different size tubes that are 5000°K.
Gene

>General question: If you use special lighting for viewing your prints,
>what's your preferred light ? I'm thinking of getting/making something but
>there are so many choices. What is everyone else using, if anything ?
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>Brian Corll

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Eugene Coggins
<elcoggins@...> wrote:
>
> If you are in the US., Home Depot sells both CF 
> and different size tubes that are 5000°K.
> Gene
> 

True enough, but unless they have changed since the last time I bought
those, they have a fairly low CRI (ie, Color Rendering Index) in the
80's.  They are fairly "spikey".  Perhaps they are stocking different
lights now.  

Lou

The ones I purchased have an CRI of 95 which is good enough.

80 is very very bad. Your are correct. Anything below 93 is considered poor.
Gene

>-- In 
><mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
>Eugene Coggins
><elcoggins@...> wrote:
>>
>>  If you are in the US., Home Depot sells both CF
>>  and different size tubes that are 5000°K.
>>  Gene
>>
>
>True enough, but unless they have changed since the last time I bought
>those, they have a fairly low CRI (ie, Color Rendering Index) in the
>80's. They are fairly "spikey". Perhaps they are stocking different
>lights now.
>
>Lou


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Gene,

> The ones I purchased have an CRI of 95 which is good enough.
...

That's impressive.  Are these CF floods or spots?  Do you have a 
source?  I'm trying to upgrade Gallery Los Olivos' lighting.

Thanks,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul:

They are only the fluorescent tubes that are 
labeled Natural Sunshine. The tubes I am using I 
bought three years ago from Home Depot.

The CRI are not known or shown on the CF bulbs. 
Only the tubes show a CRI. The tubes run about 
$5+ per tube. I have installed the 5000° K tubes 
in my entire work space. It's better than looking 
at your prints under incandescent bulbs or a cool 
white fluorescent light. And the price is right. 
However, I am sure Solux makes a superior bulb or 
tube, but at a much higher price.

The usual option for galleries is halogen bulbs 
that are around 3800°K. Which is better than 
incandescent floods at 2700°K.

Gene

>Hi Gene,
>
>>  The ones I purchased have an CRI of 95 which is good enough.
>...
>
>That's impressive. Are these CF floods or spots? Do you have a
>source? I'm trying to upgrade Gallery Los Olivos' lighting.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul
>www.PaulRoark.com<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMjNnYWU4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyMzAzMjU0NTY->Change 
>settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I use Solux spots. Left fluorescents behind a long time ago.
I bought ceiling light adapters and also clip-ons. Clip-ons are great because 
you can attach them to light stands or any other object any way you want. I 
even have one clipped to a rack and shining down on the printer exit to check 
how the print is looking as it comes out. 
Bulbs comes in 4700K (approximates D50), 4100K, 3500K.
CRIs are 98-99.
Variable beamspread.
If they're good enough for the Guggenheim Museum and the National Gallery of 
Art, they're good enough for me. ;-)

www.solux.net
(I have no connection)

Harald


**************
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gene wrote:

> They are only the fluorescent tubes that are 
> labeled Natural Sunshine. ...
> 
> The CRI are not known or shown on the CF bulbs.

To qualify for the "Energy Saver" (I think) label the CRI must be at 
least 80, I'm told.


>... I have installed the 5000° K tubes ...

There is an interesting relationship between light levels and color
temperature that is often expressed by a curve called the "Kruithof 
Curve."  As the light level becomes lower, we see warmer light as 
neutral.  A higher temperature light will be seen as cool.  
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruithof_curve 

...
> The usual option for galleries is halogen bulbs 
> that are around 3800°K.

Halogens are becoming too ineffient to be used.  We're going to 
replace ours with the best CF floods or spots we can find.  There are 
a few that advertise rather high CRIs, and, frankly, the artists in 
Gallery Los Olivos seem to be happy with even the Home Depot (est. 
cri = 82) samples I've installed for testing.

One advantage of the CF flood is that they come in varying color 
temperatures.  Because we'll have multiple floods per area, the 
artists will be able to control their own color temperature by 
swapping out, for example, some cool ones for some warm ones.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul:

There also exist LED flood lights and LED MR16's, but I haven't used  
either.

Buylighting.com has a number of them.

and here is another page full of them:
http://www.besthomeledlighting.com/led_floodlight

I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say about them. They  
tend to be very cool, but they may be cool enough to be filtered with  
a gel.

All the best,

Andrew


On Dec 27, 2008, at 11:46 AM, pr_roark wrote:

> Gene wrote:
>
> > They are only the fluorescent tubes that are
> > labeled Natural Sunshine. ...
> >
> > The CRI are not known or shown on the CF bulbs.
>
> To qualify for the "Energy Saver" (I think) label the CRI must be at
> least 80, I'm told.
>
> >... I have installed the 5000� K tubes ...
>
> There is an interesting relationship between light levels and color
> temperature that is often expressed by a curve called the "Kruithof
> Curve." As the light level becomes lower, we see warmer light as
> neutral. A higher temperature light will be seen as cool.
> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruithof_curve
>
> ...
> > The usual option for galleries is halogen bulbs
> > that are around 3800�K.
>
> Halogens are becoming too ineffient to be used. We're going to
> replace ours with the best CF floods or spots we can find. There are
> a few that advertise rather high CRIs, and, frankly, the artists in
> Gallery Los Olivos seem to be happy with even the Home Depot (est.
> cri = 82) samples I've installed for testing.
>
> One advantage of the CF flood is that they come in varying color
> temperatures. Because we'll have multiple floods per area, the
> artists will be able to control their own color temperature by
> swapping out, for example, some cool ones for some warm ones.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
> 

---------------------------------------------------
Andrew Darlow
Editor, The Imaging Buffet
http://www.imagingbuffet.com
Author, 301 Inkjet Tips and Techniques:
An Essential Printing Resource for Photographers - http:// 
www.inkjettips.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrew Darlow <ad@...> wrote:


> There also exist LED flood lights and LED MR16's,...
> 
> Buylighting.com has a number of them.
> 
> and here is another page full of them:
> http://www.besthomeledlighting.com/led_floodlight
> 
...

I think the LEDs are clearly the future, but I'm not sure what the 
light quality (CRI) is or whether there are appropriate sizes/lumens 
for our replacement project.  Actually, there is a program in 
California that is going to end up giving our gallery free lights.  
So we have to pick from what they have, which seems to be simply a 
selection of CF floods and 'spots' (more like floods than a halogen 
spot).

I, too, would like to hear if anyone has experience with the LEDs.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <pr_roark@...> wrote:

> I think the LEDs are clearly the future, but I'm not sure what the 
> light quality (CRI) is or whether there are appropriate sizes/lumens 
> for our replacement project.  Actually, there is a program in 
> California that is going to end up giving our gallery free lights.  

There is a company, TCP that makes Compact Florescents in a number of colors.  The have a 
280 series that contains a group of bulbs with a FS (Full Spectrum) suffix.  They are 5500k 
with a CRI of 90.

I found their 5100K bulbs at a commercial lighting center.  The FS series may have to be 
special ordered.  I remember the 5100 bulbs as being priced reasonably.  I'm not sure about 
the FS bulbs.

pr_roark wrote:
> Andrew Darlow <ad@...> wrote:
> 
> 
>> There also exist LED flood lights and LED MR16's,...
>>
>> Buylighting.com has a number of them.
>>
>> and here is another page full of them:
>> http://www.besthomeledlighting.com/led_floodlight
>>
> ...
> 
> I think the LEDs are clearly the future, but I'm not sure what the 
> light quality (CRI) is or whether there are appropriate sizes/lumens 
> for our replacement project.  Actually, there is a program in 
> California that is going to end up giving our gallery free lights.  
> So we have to pick from what they have, which seems to be simply a 
> selection of CF floods and 'spots' (more like floods than a halogen 
> spot).
> 
> I, too, would like to hear if anyone has experience with the LEDs.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 

Over time I have checked the specs of LED lamps at this 
Dutch site

http://www.olino.org/
which has a more recent version in English
http://www.olino.org/us/
That may not have all data that is available on the Dutch site.
The CRI on itself doesn't tell all, check the red and blue 
samples of the specs here and that's with a total CRI of 87: 
http://www.olino.org/us/articles/2008/10/05/edison-led-3%C3%971-w-gu10-ww

None of the LED sources has the light quality of the best 
"full spectrum" fluorescents and the last do not meet the 
quality of the Solux halogens.

A friend who will shortly occupy another studio intends to 
install LED tubes there. I have warned him that the LEDS are 
not yet at the quality he needs. The economy of LED lamps 
compared to fluorescent tubes isn't better either. The pros 
of LEDs are the fast switching possible, working in any 
temperature, faster on maximum output after switching on, 
much longer life, less environmental waste than 
fluorescents, economy if compared to lamps in general. Their 
spotlight characteristic is sometimes an advantage but not 
always.

LEDs make new armature designs possible:
http://www.lighting.philips.com/in_en/applications/office/daywave.php?main=gb_en&parent=1&id=in_en_applications&lang=en
The manufacturers face the fact that consumers will buy a 
LED lamp and never return to replace that lamp so 
integrating the LEDS as much as possible in the luminaire is 
one way to let the customer return. If the design starts to 
become old fashioned the LEDS go with it.

Right now I'm replacing outdoor lamps, non color critical 
lamps etc with LED alternatives. I expect that the 12V 
halogen armatures with Solux type lamps are best right now 
for the studio and that in time better LED lamps that fit 
the same GU 5.3 armatures will become available. The larger 
part of my shop where the silkscreen printer etc is has 
about 25 Philips 950 fluorescent tubes. If possible I would 
like to exchange them with LED armature designs when their 
light quality becomes better and then use more autoswitching 
control to reduce energy waste.

Compact fluorescents like Truelight are an alternative but 
not equal in output to Solux.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

pr_roark wrote:
> Andrew Darlow <ad@...> wrote:
> 
> 
>> There also exist LED flood lights and LED MR16's,...
>>
>> Buylighting.com has a number of them.
>>
>> and here is another page full of them:
>> http://www.besthomeledlighting.com/led_floodlight
>>
> ...
> 
> I think the LEDs are clearly the future, but I'm not sure what the 
> light quality (CRI) is or whether there are appropriate sizes/lumens 
> for our replacement project.  Actually, there is a program in 
> California that is going to end up giving our gallery free lights.  
> So we have to pick from what they have, which seems to be simply a 
> selection of CF floods and 'spots' (more like floods than a halogen 
> spot).
> 
> I, too, would like to hear if anyone has experience with the LEDs.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 

Paul,

Video and camcorder users need small floods and spots with 
continuous output. It looks like they embrace LED lighting 
faster, armatures that have all LED types included like Red, 
Green, Blue, Amber, White, etc to get more full spectrum. I 
have not seen a spectral curve yet nor a decent CRI quote 
for them. I suspect still an (expensive) compromise on color 
quality.

http://www.s131567196.onlinehome.us/

http://www.elementlabs.com/KelvinTILE.html

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

I can't speak for hi output very broad spectrum led lighting but I can
say a bit for generic LEDs.
I have an ongoing project of a diy XYspectro utilizing LEDs(silly I
know but interesting and educational). In any event, in the course of
designing this, I've had reason to measure and evaluate a fair number
of off the shelf LEDs. In general I found that it would be very
difficult to come up with a set that could be reasonably considered to
approximate any normal lighting's full spectral curve. I was able to
construct full spectrum coverage(roughly 340-750nm) but it has a lot
of spikes in output. That isn't a major issue for my use as it can be
accounted for in calculations but I suspect(as you have mentioned
Ernst) that it would be very expensive to individually control gangs
of relatively narrow peak LEDs in a manner that emulates something
like a continuous spectrum incandescent for large scale viewing
purposes. It took 13 LED bands for me to be comfortable with what I
considered adequate output for reasonable precision of results. 

Regards,
Duane





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
<edinkla@...> wrote:

>
> pr_roark wrote:

> > I think the LEDs are clearly the future, but I'm not sure what the 
> > light quality (CRI) is or whether there are appropriate sizes/lumens 
> > for our replacement project.  Actually, there is a program in 
> > California that is going to end up giving our gallery free lights.  
> > So we have to pick from what they have, which seems to be simply a 
> > selection of CF floods and 'spots' (more like floods than a halogen 
> > spot).
> > 
> > I, too, would like to hear if anyone has experience with the LEDs.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Video and camcorder users need small floods and spots with 
> continuous output. It looks like they embrace LED lighting 
> faster, armatures that have all LED types included like Red, 
> Green, Blue, Amber, White, etc to get more full spectrum. I 
> have not seen a spectral curve yet nor a decent CRI quote 
> for them. I suspect still an (expensive) compromise on color 
> quality.
> 
> http://www.s131567196.onlinehome.us/
> 
> http://www.elementlabs.com/KelvinTILE.html
> 
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> 
> 
> |  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
> |     www.pigment-print.com    |
> |             ( unvollendet )            |
>

I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I remeber 
hearing a professional printer say that when he has an exhibition he 
supplies one 4700K bulb per print as this is the light he uses when 
doing in his studio while printing and wiewing. (He always expects 
his bulbs to be returned after a show). How this would be 
accomplished with LED lighting is a question I will leave to the 
experts.

Warm Wishes for a Healthy and Prosperous 2009!

Rudy
So.Hadley, Masstts
---------------------------------------


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dlruckus" 
<dlruckus@...> wrote:
>
> I can't speak for hi output very broad spectrum led lighting but I 
can
> say a bit for generic LEDs.
> I have an ongoing project of a diy XYspectro utilizing LEDs(silly I
> know but interesting and educational). In any event, in the course 
of
> designing this, I've had reason to measure and evaluate a fair 
number
> of off the shelf LEDs. In general I found that it would be very
> difficult to come up with a set that could be reasonably 
considered to
> approximate any normal lighting's full spectral curve. I was able 
to
> construct full spectrum coverage(roughly 340-750nm) but it has a 
lot
> of spikes in output. That isn't a major issue for my use as it can 
be
> accounted for in calculations but I suspect(as you have mentioned
> Ernst) that it would be very expensive to individually control 
gangs
> of relatively narrow peak LEDs in a manner that emulates something
> like a continuous spectrum incandescent for large scale viewing
> purposes. It took 13 LED bands for me to be comfortable with what I
> considered adequate output for reasonable precision of results. 
> 
> Regards,
> Duane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
> <edinkla@> wrote:
> >
> > pr_roark wrote:
> 
> > > I think the LEDs are clearly the future, but I'm not sure what 
the 
> > > light quality (CRI) is or whether there are appropriate 
sizes/lumens 
> > > for our replacement project.  Actually, there is a program in 
> > > California that is going to end up giving our gallery free 
lights.  
> > > So we have to pick from what they have, which seems to be 
simply a 
> > > selection of CF floods and 'spots' (more like floods than a 
halogen 
> > > spot).
> > > 
> > > I, too, would like to hear if anyone has experience with the 
LEDs.

> > > 
> > > Paul
> > > www.PaulRoark.com 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Paul,
> > 
> > Video and camcorder users need small floods and spots with 
> > continuous output. It looks like they embrace LED lighting 
> > faster, armatures that have all LED types included like Red, 
> > Green, Blue, Amber, White, etc to get more full spectrum. I 
> > have not seen a spectral curve yet nor a decent CRI quote 
> > for them. I suspect still an (expensive) compromise on color 
> > quality.
> > 
> > http://www.s131567196.onlinehome.us/
> > 
> > http://www.elementlabs.com/KelvinTILE.html
> > 
> > -- 
> > Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> > 
> > 
> > |  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
> > |     www.pigment-print.com    |
> > |             ( unvollendet )            |
> >
>