Digital BW, The Print

Hello all,

Well, of course I can look at the on-screen ink level chart that Epson
printers provide. But still, I'm not sure. I have an R1800 and am
using MIS spongeless refillables in the two black and the GLOP
positions (Paul's 3MK approach). In the color position I've kept the
OEM color carts... after they ran out I've been using MIS cleaning
fluid with the OEM refill kit. I reset the chip of course.. but now
naturally when I do a nozzle check I can't see any pattern from those
carts, and I can't see the level because these carts are
non-transparent. I have to rely on the on-screen charts. But since
I've reset the chip, the cart may show full, or partially full, but in
fact may be empty. And I don't want to harm the printer running on an
empty cart.

Perhaps I don't understand just how the chips work... do they actually
measure the fluid in the cart?  Or do they just indicate what's in the
cart by keeping track of the "mileage". Not sure I'm explaining all
this very well, perhaps someone will catch my drift.

TIA!

Paul

Hi Paul:

One of the best ways I've found to check how much is left in a cart  
is by weighing it using a precision scale (postal scales are  
inexpensive and work for this). Once you have a baseline for a full  
and empty cart, that can help a lot. Someone else will probably  
comment about whether the levels gauge in the software is usually  
accurate in this case.

All the best,

Andrew
---------------------------------------------------
Andrew Darlow
Editor, The Imaging Buffet
http://www.imagingbuffet.com
Author, 301 Inkjet Tips and Techniques:
An Essential Printing Resource for Photographers - http:// 
www.inkjettips.com

On Dec 30, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Paul Whiting wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Well, of course I can look at the on-screen ink level chart that Epson
> printers provide. But still, I'm not sure. I have an R1800 and am
> using MIS spongeless refillables in the two black and the GLOP
> positions (Paul's 3MK approach). In the color position I've kept the
> OEM color carts... after they ran out I've been using MIS cleaning
> fluid with the OEM refill kit. I reset the chip of course.. but now
> naturally when I do a nozzle check I can't see any pattern from those
> carts, and I can't see the level because these carts are
> non-transparent. I have to rely on the on-screen charts. But since
> I've reset the chip, the cart may show full, or partially full, but in
> fact may be empty. And I don't want to harm the printer running on an
> empty cart.
>
> Perhaps I don't understand just how the chips work... do they actually
> measure the fluid in the cart? Or do they just indicate what's in the
> cart by keeping track of the "mileage". Not sure I'm explaining all
> this very well, perhaps someone will catch my drift.
>
> TIA!
>
> Paul
>
>
> __._,_._






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Paul Whiting" <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:
>
> ... I have an R1800 ... 3MK approach ... 
> In the color position I've kept the
> OEM color carts... after they ran out I've been using MIS 
> cleaning fluid with the OEM refill kit. I reset the chip 
> of course.. but now naturally when I do a nozzle check I 
> can't see any pattern from those
> carts, and I can't see the level because these carts are
> non-transparent. I have to rely on the on-screen charts. 
> But since I've reset the chip, the cart may show full, 
> or partially full, but in fact may be empty. ...

I think the re-set chips will estimate how much ink is in the cart 
based on counting the use of that ink.  They do not measure the 
actual ink level.  They will assume the carts were full when the 
chips were reset.  If you were able to get as much cleaning fluid 
into the carts as there was OEM ink when full, the chips should be 
reasonably accurate.  I'm not sure how much ink that is, but I'd 
guess if you were able to get a full 10 cc syringe full of cleaning 
fluid into the cart, you'll be able to run it until it's fairly empty.

Actually, I'm surprised you can't see a light nozzle check pattern 
due to the residual ink left in the cart when you refilled it.  If 
it's a bottom fill approach, the light ink color might show up later 
as the ink from inside the cart may have more color than that which 
is near the outlet just after the refill.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks, both of you,

Andrew:

I have a postal scale around here somewhere, I'll do a search today...
good idea.

Paul:

Yes, counting the use is what I was getting at by "mileage". I didn't
see how they could measure the actual level since there's no physical
contact with the interior of the cart.

Of course, since I'm using cleaning fluid, I won't be making much of a
mess if I try and add too much, it'll simply spill over. Then I'll
know it's full. And it's inexpensive.

As for a faint pattern in the nozzle check, actually I did see that at
first. But now that I've filled those carts a few times the contents
are pretty much pure cleaning fluid.

If I do happen to print when one or more of these carts is actually
empty, will this harm the printer in any way?

Thanks,

Paul

> I think the re-set chips will estimate how much ink is in the cart 
> based on counting the use of that ink.  They do not measure the 
> actual ink level.  They will assume the carts were full when the 
> chips were reset.  If you were able to get as much cleaning fluid 
> into the carts as there was OEM ink when full, the chips should be 
> reasonably accurate.  I'm not sure how much ink that is, but I'd 
> guess if you were able to get a full 10 cc syringe full of cleaning 
> fluid into the cart, you'll be able to run it until it's fairly empty.
> 
> Actually, I'm surprised you can't see a light nozzle check pattern 
> due to the residual ink left in the cart when you refilled it.  If 
> it's a bottom fill approach, the light ink color might show up later 
> as the ink from inside the cart may have more color than that which 
> is near the outlet just after the refill.
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

I don't know about a postal scale, but if by that you mean one that weigh in
the 0 to 200 to 400g range than yes. Not only does it let you know how much
ink is left by weigh, you can get pretty good at judging the amount you need
to finish a batch of prints based on weight lost and prints made.  

 

Eric Neilsen

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

 

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

SKYPE ejprinter

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Darlow
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:07 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] how do I check levels in non-transparent carts -
other than view my monitor?

 

Hi Paul:

One of the best ways I've found to check how much is left in a cart 
is by weighing it using a precision scale (postal scales are 
inexpensive and work for this). Once you have a baseline for a full 
and empty cart, that can help a lot. Someone else will probably 
comment about whether the levels gauge in the software is usually 
accurate in this case.

All the best,

Andrew
---------------------------------------------------
Andrew Darlow
Editor, The Imaging Buffet
http://www.imagingbuffet.com
Author, 301 Inkjet Tips and Techniques:
An Essential Printing Resource for Photographers - http:// 
www.inkjettips.com

On Dec 30, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Paul Whiting wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Well, of course I can look at the on-screen ink level chart that Epson
> printers provide. But still, I'm not sure. I have an R1800 and am
> using MIS spongeless refillables in the two black and the GLOP
> positions (Paul's 3MK approach). In the color position I've kept the
> OEM color carts... after they ran out I've been using MIS cleaning
> fluid with the OEM refill kit. I reset the chip of course.. but now
> naturally when I do a nozzle check I can't see any pattern from those
> carts, and I can't see the level because these carts are
> non-transparent. I have to rely on the on-screen charts. But since
> I've reset the chip, the cart may show full, or partially full, but in
> fact may be empty. And I don't want to harm the printer running on an
> empty cart.
>
> Perhaps I don't understand just how the chips work... do they actually
> measure the fluid in the cart? Or do they just indicate what's in the
> cart by keeping track of the "mileage". Not sure I'm explaining all
> this very well, perhaps someone will catch my drift.
>
> TIA!
>
> Paul
>
>
> __._,_._

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>...
> If I do happen to print when one or more of these carts is actually
> empty, will this harm the printer in any way?

I've heard that printing with an empty cart will damage the head if 
done too long.  I've had printers run out for minor amounts of time and 
never seen any damage.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> Andrew:
> 
> I have a postal scale around here somewhere, I'll do a search today...
> good idea.

Miraculous... looked in our "stuff" draw and found it right away. I
was going to post a photo of it, but Googled on "letter scale" and my
first hit found one just like mine - here it is:

http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-metal-hand-scale.aspx

I found out that a full OEM Epson cart weighs 37 gm and and an empty
Epson is 27 gm. I think Paul said if I can inject 10 mil of ink, that
that should fill it. Since 1 mil of water is about 1 gram, my two
figures are about right.

A brand-new MIS spongeless came in at 19 gm. I'll fill it with Eboni
and see what I get.

This little scale reads up to 100 grams and has increments of 1 to 5
gram, depending on the range you're in, so it's just about right for
our purposes. And - no batteries!

> 
> Paul:
> 
> Yes, counting the use is what I was getting at by "mileage". I didn't
> see how they could measure the actual level since there's no physical
> contact with the interior of the cart.
> 
> Of course, since I'm using cleaning fluid, I won't be making much of a
> mess if I try and add too much, it'll simply spill over. Then I'll
> know it's full. And it's inexpensive.
> 
> As for a faint pattern in the nozzle check, actually I did see that at
> first. But now that I've filled those carts a few times the contents
> are pretty much pure cleaning fluid.
> 
> If I do happen to print when one or more of these carts is actually
> empty, will this harm the printer in any way?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Paul
> 
> > I think the re-set chips will estimate how much ink is in the cart 
> > based on counting the use of that ink.  They do not measure the 
> > actual ink level.  They will assume the carts were full when the 
> > chips were reset.  If you were able to get as much cleaning fluid 
> > into the carts as there was OEM ink when full, the chips should be 
> > reasonably accurate.  I'm not sure how much ink that is, but I'd 
> > guess if you were able to get a full 10 cc syringe full of cleaning 
> > fluid into the cart, you'll be able to run it until it's fairly empty.
> > 
> > Actually, I'm surprised you can't see a light nozzle check pattern 
> > due to the residual ink left in the cart when you refilled it.  If 
> > it's a bottom fill approach, the light ink color might show up later 
> > as the ink from inside the cart may have more color than that which 
> > is near the outlet just after the refill.
> > 
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
>

Here it is three colors, even cheaper:

http://www.cyberscale.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=75&osCsid=63f401c3410b598399f7ac8ecb0e47d6

Paul