Digital BW, The Print

can anyone recommend a spray mount that will not outgass chemicals that yellow our fine art paper coatings?
Longevity is not a concern this time, only immediate yellowing...
Thanks,
Tyler

That is a damn good question.  I've asked this question a million times and never found an answer. I don't know of one, and I've looked. The only thing I would trust from what I know now is a good dry mount tissue.

john




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:

>
> can anyone recommend a spray mount that will not outgass chemicals that yellow our fine art paper coatings?
> Longevity is not a concern this time, only immediate yellowing...
> Thanks,
> Tyler
>

well I got an off list reply- 3M's Photo Mount spray. User has 2 years or so of experience with no yellowing. Thought I'd pass that on...
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "deanwork2003" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:

>
> That is a damn good question.  I've asked this question a million times and never found an answer. I don't know of one, and I've looked. The only thing I would trust from what I know now is a good dry mount tissue.
> 
> john
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@> wrote:
> >
> > can anyone recommend a spray mount that will not outgass chemicals that yellow our fine art paper coatings?
> > Longevity is not a concern this time, only immediate yellowing...
> > Thanks,
> > Tyler
> >
>

I've used it and not had any yellowing but have suffered from delamination
and bubbling with large (bigger than 16x20) prints.  This has been a
particular problem when the print has moved from dry to humid environments
or vice versa.

David Whistance

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of tboleyyh
  Sent: 20 August 2009 17:51
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: spray mounts?


    well I got an off list reply- 3M's Photo Mount spray. User has 2 years
or so of experience with no yellowing. Thought I'd pass that on...
  Tyler

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "deanwork2003"
<deanwork2003@...> wrote:
  >
  > That is a damn good question. I've asked this question a million times
and never found an answer. I don't know of one, and I've looked. The only
thing I would trust from what I know now is a good dry mount tissue.
  >
  > john
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@> wrote:
  > >
  > > can anyone recommend a spray mount that will not outgass chemicals
that yellow our fine art paper coatings?
  > > Longevity is not a concern this time, only immediate yellowing...
  > > Thanks,
  > > Tyler
  > >
  >



  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I made a 14"x14" handmade book of gelatin silver prints mounted with this 3M adhesive in 1984. There has been no staining of either the print or the Rieves BFK paper that they were mounted onto. However, even after one month some of the edges starting peeling up, even in a flat book format, and today although they are still mounted in that book even more of the edges have peeled up. I would never trust it for large things personally. 3M also makes a spray called Spray Ment, that I was told is more chemically appropriate for long life situations, but I've been told it peels up  worse than the Photo Mount.

I'd be careful.

john




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David Whistance" <david.whistance@...> wrote:

>
> I've used it and not had any yellowing but have suffered from delamination
> and bubbling with large (bigger than 16x20) prints.  This has been a
> particular problem when the print has moved from dry to humid environments
> or vice versa.
> 
> David Whistance
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of tboleyyh
>   Sent: 20 August 2009 17:51
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: spray mounts?
> 
> 
>     well I got an off list reply- 3M's Photo Mount spray. User has 2 years
> or so of experience with no yellowing. Thought I'd pass that on...
>   Tyler
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "deanwork2003"
> <deanwork2003@> wrote:
>   >
>   > That is a damn good question. I've asked this question a million times
> and never found an answer. I don't know of one, and I've looked. The only
> thing I would trust from what I know now is a good dry mount tissue.
>   >
>   > john
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
> <tyler@> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > can anyone recommend a spray mount that will not outgass chemicals
> that yellow our fine art paper coatings?
>   > > Longevity is not a concern this time, only immediate yellowing...
>   > > Thanks,
>   > > Tyler
>   > >
>   >
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On 20/08/2009 deanwork2003 wrote:
> 3M also makes a spray called Spray Ment, that I was told is more 
> chemically appropriate for long life situations, but I've been told 
> it peels up  worse than the Photo Mount.

I've used both, and Spray Mount is only intended to make a very temporary 
and easily separated bond.
-- 
Regards

Tony Sleep
http://tonysleep.co.uk

One of the most commonly used spray adhesives for decorative and temporary framing is 3M super 77. In general, spray adhesives are not archival so I have never concerned myself with the chemical properties and long term print reactions. Short term print yellowing tends to be due more to the surface of the print not being protected with glass, and being exposed to significant ultraviolet radiation (direct sunlight).

Cheers,
Mark
President
Frame Destination, Inc.
http://www.framedestination.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:

>
> can anyone recommend a spray mount that will not outgass chemicals that yellow our fine art paper coatings?
> Longevity is not a concern this time, only immediate yellowing...
> Thanks,
> Tyler
>

Super 77  IS super strong and good for temporary displays. It appears to be pretty much a aerosol version of rubber cement. I wouldn't even put it in the same room with a valuable photograph.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrgs1001" <mrgs1001@...> wrote:

>
> One of the most commonly used spray adhesives for decorative and temporary framing is 3M super 77. In general, spray adhesives are not archival so I have never concerned myself with the chemical properties and long term print reactions. Short term print yellowing tends to be due more to the surface of the print not being protected with glass, and being exposed to significant ultraviolet radiation (direct sunlight).
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark
> President
> Frame Destination, Inc.
> http://www.framedestination.com
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@> wrote:
> >
> > can anyone recommend a spray mount that will not outgass chemicals that yellow our fine art paper coatings?
> > Longevity is not a concern this time, only immediate yellowing...
> > Thanks,
> > Tyler
> >
>

To be clear, the kind of yellowing I am referring to is unique to coated inkjet papers. Yellowing due to other factors like UV that affects all art (many objects actually) is not the issue I brought up. The yellowing I am talking about can occur literally overnight, depending on how much moisture is available to accelerate the reaction. It is a reaction between the properties unique to inkjet coatings, and particular chemicals. Many of these are common to adhesives or plastics, that slowly outgass to avoid drying and becomming brittle. Even the little rubber feet on my small paper trimmer, if placed on inkjet paper, will make little yellow stains in precise shape on the paper in a day or two. Believe it or not, Epson's own vinyl coated roll spring will do it to the roll it secures.
This is not a UV problem, in fact UV can bleach it back out and save a print. Mark McCormick-Goodhart and Jon Cone both, separately, told me it is most likely sulfur.
Many people here or in the wider community very active with inkjet have had unfortunate experiences with this issue, losing large bodies of work, and even clients.
I find we have to constantly educate and re-educate about this issue. People assume their knowledge and experience about handling art carries over into these new materials. I've had many a re-print job because frame shops either damaged the prints with rough handling (even throwing out all the interleaving and careful packaging, and just stacking and shuffling them, putting other things at their work space right on top of them) or using previously acceptable adhesives in some part of the assembly that then outgassed and yellowed the coating..
Everything is changing, a top expert ten years ago armed with a lot of knowledge and experience may quickly ruin an inkjet print, because they haven't been on the front lines like the users. These are the people that really ought to get up to speed and strongly support Aardenburg Imaging & Archives.
I appreciate everyone's replies. My specific issue is resolved. This was just to mount some text printed out and mounted to foamcore, and needs to last a few months at best. The imediate yellowing was the concern.
However continued attention to these issues is very important for the survival of this generation's artistic output. I also hope it leads to development of less sensitive coatings. To suggest some kind of information about care and handling from the manufacturers would be an understatement...
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "deanwork2003" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:

>
> Super 77  IS super strong and good for temporary displays. It appears to be pretty much a aerosol version of rubber cement. I wouldn't even put it in the same room with a valuable photograph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrgs1001" <mrgs1001@> wrote:
> >
> > One of the most commonly used spray adhesives for decorative and temporary framing is 3M super 77. In general, spray adhesives are not archival so I have never concerned myself with the chemical properties and long term print reactions. Short term print yellowing tends to be due more to the surface of the print not being protected with glass, and being exposed to significant ultraviolet radiation (direct sunlight).
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Mark
> > President
> > Frame Destination, Inc.
> > http://www.framedestination.com
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@> wrote:
> > >
> > > can anyone recommend a spray mount that will not outgass chemicals that yellow our fine art paper coatings?
> > > Longevity is not a concern this time, only immediate yellowing...
> > > Thanks,
> > > Tyler
> > >
> >
>

Thanks, Tyler, for a very informative and useful reply.

I've been using either Jin Shofu wheat starch or bookbinding PVA without any problems. The glue can be quickly rolled on the back of either the print or the mounting board then pressed together. Usually people develop their own techniques for error-free applications.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tboleyyh" <tyler@...> wrote:
>
> To be clear, the kind of yellowing I am referring to is unique to coated inkjet papers. Yellowing due to other factors like UV that affects all art (many objects actually) is not the issue I brought up...

PVA book binding glue seems the perfect solution. It is as strong as concrete, doesn't crack with changes in humidity and temp, etc,and has proven to be safe for even the most valuable rare books over significant periods of time.

I just with someone would make a clean, simple application method to do it.  I've tried to roll it on , paint it on etc, and always found the paper buckling and warping immediately  with rag papers. It's like trying to mount a print with Elmers glue, which is close to what it actually is, in a more purified form.

john







--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "nghin" <nghin@...> wrote:

>
> Thanks, Tyler, for a very informative and useful reply.
> 
> I've been using either Jin Shofu wheat starch or bookbinding PVA without any problems. The glue can be quickly rolled on the back of either the print or the mounting board then pressed together. Usually people develop their own techniques for error-free applications.
> 
> --nick
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tboleyyh" <tyler@> wrote:
> >
> > To be clear, the kind of yellowing I am referring to is unique to coated inkjet papers. Yellowing due to other factors like UV that affects all art (many objects actually) is not the issue I brought up...
>

Has anyone tried Breathing Color's Glamour 11?
In addition to a protective coating, it's supposed to be a good  adhesive.
 
Rich
_www.rmassiephotography.com_ (http://www.rmassiephotography.com) 
 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]