Digital BW, The Print

Hi all!

Finally I fixed my old 2200 and put there mix of C6 diluted HP PK inks
and couple carbon inks from MIS that are compatible with glossy paper.
Idea was to warm up black tones a little bit, I think pure HP PK is too
cold in black. Inks positions are:

K - HP PK 100%
LK - HP PK 33%
C - MIS UT7 C
M - HP PK 16%
LC - MIS UT7 LC
LM - HP PK 8%
Y - MIS Glop

On Kirkland paper this setup produced DMax 2.86, something I didn't
expect at all. I spent some time figuring out QTR profile, because using
K as gray curve produced very weak 100% spot, it had L 12 and 95% spot
was 3.2. At the end I changed inks setup and used MIS inks as grays and
HP inks as toners. You could see table with 21 patches ramp here
<http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Kirklan\
dGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21164> , and curve with
Lab b here
<http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Kirklan\
dGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21163> , sorry I don't
have usable Web page, and put these picture to SkyDrive.  I will try to
make profile more neutral. On my 2200 pure HP PK has heavy microbanding,
much worse than on 1400, and not suitable for BO printing. Probable it
was a reason why 100% black spot was so weak. Mix of warm carbon MIS
inks and HP PK is very smooth.  Glop doesn't help too much -- where
paper has no inks, it still has visible gloss differential.
So Paul's suggestion worked fine. I am really surprised by DMax, in the
black spot my spectro measured L 1.26, and non-linearized profile
reading was 1.13. I could expect that Silver Rag will be even darker.

I also put matte compatible inkset into 1400. Here my goal was to cool
down highlight and produce more neutral tones. I used 8% dilution of HP
PK in Y position, replacing 2% dilution of Eboni, inks positions are

K - 100% Eboni
C - 33% Eboni
M - 16% Eboni
Y - 8% HP PK
LC - 8% Eboni
LM - 4% Eboni

Y ink was used as toner, I moved toner curve to highlights a little bit.
I prepared two profiles, one with diluted HP PK, other one just Eboni.
With this setup the best DMax was on PremierArt Matte BW 200 -- I still
have some leftovers. I got DMax 1.71 with C6 only and 1.7 with cooled
inkset. Again, table with measurements is here
<http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Kirklan\
dGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21165>  , and Lab b
graphs for cooled and non-cooled inkset are here
<http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Kirklan\
dGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21166>  . Cooled down
inkset produces quite neutral prints, highlights are not warm at all.
Visually tone of glossy inkset that I used for Kirkland paper is
somewhere between cooled and non-cooled tones for matte paper.
I profiled some other matte papers too, got about the same tones, but
DMax was lower than on MatteBW. I am expecting delivery with HPR and
PremierArt Smooth FA 200 (Alise Museum is backordered) and couple papers
from Red River, after that I will profile these too. Cooled tone looks
very nice on PA FineArt 205 (which is natural paper, but DMax is "only"
1.59). Looking at DMax, matte paper can't hold the candle to

If anyone is interested in using these non-standard inksets, I could
upload my profiles. I selected 2200 for glossy papers over 1400 because
of extra slot for glop, but if you drop glop, same glossy setup could be
used on any 6 inks printer.
These setups are probably not compatible with Epson driver, but I don't
use it at all.

Thanks to Paul Roark for good ideas,

Sergei







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You can force QTR to put glop in 255 white areas by doing the following:

- Open appropriate xyz.quad file in a plain text editor (like Notepad or TextEdit)
- Look for line that starts with "# Y curve" or whatever position glop is in. It will look something like this:
# Y curve
0
32347
31927
31506
31086

The 0 means in 255 spot it will not put down glop. Change 0 to something else, in sequence with numbers under it. Doesn't have to be precise, just duplicating the number below it will be fine.

If you do this it will put glop on the entire page, including areas outside your actual image.  You could keep two versions of your .quad file, one with and the other without this hack.

Marko

On 2010-02-05, at 0:04, santonov2you wrote:
> Glop doesn't help too much -- where
> paper has no inks, it still has visible gloss differential.
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Marko Milisavljevic <marko.mili@...> wrote:
>
> You can force QTR to put glop in 255 white areas by doing the following:

Thanks, Marco.

I am placing glop everywhere on paper using "curve" like 0,15;100,20, but it gives different gloss on places with and without inks, that gives some visible gloss difference. It is much less difference than "bronzing" produces, but not as uniform as couple of layers of PrintShield.

--Sergei

Sergei,

Txs for sharing your experience.

>>K as gray curve produced very weak 100% spot, it had L 12 and 95% spot
was 3.2.

Ok from my experience with HPPK you have to use very little GLOP (5%) with
the darker 50% of the tones, or it increases the L* reading.
HPPK is very sensitive to GLOP %.  I am getting L*<2 with IGFS and Epson
Exhib.

>>I also put matte compatible inkset into 1400. Here my goal was to cool
down highlight and produce more neutral tones. I used 8% dilution of HP
PK in Y position, replacing 2% dilution of Eboni, inks positions are

You'll get much more neutral result from the following;

K - 100% Eboni
C - 100% HPPK (this is about 50% density of Eboni)
M - 16% HPPK
Y - 18% Eboni (use this to warm up the 100% HPPK a bit).
LC - 8% HPPK
LM - 4% HPPK

I think if you want neutral, better to start with a neutral ink and tweak
that.
But maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to achieve.

Mike




On 5 February 2010 08:04, santonov2you <drumscanner@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi all!
>
> Finally I fixed my old 2200 and put there mix of C6 diluted HP PK inks
> and couple carbon inks from MIS that are compatible with glossy paper.
> Idea was to warm up black tones a little bit, I think pure HP PK is too
> cold in black. Inks positions are:
>
> K - HP PK 100%
> LK - HP PK 33%
> C - MIS UT7 C
> M - HP PK 16%
> LC - MIS UT7 LC
> LM - HP PK 8%
> Y - MIS Glop
>
> On Kirkland paper this setup produced DMax 2.86, something I didn't
> expect at all. I spent some time figuring out QTR profile, because using
> K as gray curve produced very weak 100% spot, it had L 12 and 95% spot
> was 3.2. At the end I changed inks setup and used MIS inks as grays and
> HP inks as toners. You could see table with 21 patches ramp here
> <http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Kirklan\
> dGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21164<http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/KirklandGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21164>>
> , and curve with
> Lab b here
> <http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Kirklan\
> dGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21163<http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/KirklandGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21163>>
> , sorry I don't
> have usable Web page, and put these picture to SkyDrive. I will try to
> make profile more neutral. On my 2200 pure HP PK has heavy microbanding,
> much worse than on 1400, and not suitable for BO printing. Probable it
> was a reason why 100% black spot was so weak. Mix of warm carbon MIS
> inks and HP PK is very smooth. Glop doesn't help too much -- where
> paper has no inks, it still has visible gloss differential.
> So Paul's suggestion worked fine. I am really surprised by DMax, in the
> black spot my spectro measured L 1.26, and non-linearized profile
> reading was 1.13. I could expect that Silver Rag will be even darker.
>
> I also put matte compatible inkset into 1400. Here my goal was to cool
> down highlight and produce more neutral tones. I used 8% dilution of HP
> PK in Y position, replacing 2% dilution of Eboni, inks positions are
>
> K - 100% Eboni
> C - 33% Eboni
> M - 16% Eboni
> Y - 8% HP PK
> LC - 8% Eboni
> LM - 4% Eboni
>
> Y ink was used as toner, I moved toner curve to highlights a little bit.
> I prepared two profiles, one with diluted HP PK, other one just Eboni.
> With this setup the best DMax was on PremierArt Matte BW 200 -- I still
> have some leftovers. I got DMax 1.71 with C6 only and 1.7 with cooled
> inkset. Again, table with measurements is here
> <http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Kirklan\
> dGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21165<http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/KirklandGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21165>>
> , and Lab b
> graphs for cooled and non-cooled inkset are here
> <http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Kirklan\
> dGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21166<http://cid-b0975f9c313515c7.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/KirklandGraph%5E_C6%5E_HPPK.gif#resId/B0975F9C313515C7%21166>>
> . Cooled down
> inkset produces quite neutral prints, highlights are not warm at all.
> Visually tone of glossy inkset that I used for Kirkland paper is
> somewhere between cooled and non-cooled tones for matte paper.
> I profiled some other matte papers too, got about the same tones, but
> DMax was lower than on MatteBW. I am expecting delivery with HPR and
> PremierArt Smooth FA 200 (Alise Museum is backordered) and couple papers
> from Red River, after that I will profile these too. Cooled tone looks
> very nice on PA FineArt 205 (which is natural paper, but DMax is "only"
> 1.59). Looking at DMax, matte paper can't hold the candle to
>
> If anyone is interested in using these non-standard inksets, I could
> upload my profiles. I selected 2200 for glossy papers over 1400 because
> of extra slot for glop, but if you drop glop, same glossy setup could be
> used on any 6 inks printer.
> These setups are probably not compatible with Epson driver, but I don't
> use it at all.
>
> Thanks to Paul Roark for good ideas,
>
> Sergei
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
> >>K as gray curve produced very weak 100% spot, it had L 12 and 95% spot
> was 3.2.
> 
> Ok from my experience with HPPK you have to use very little GLOP (5%) with
> the darker 50% of the tones, or it increases the L* reading.
> HPPK is very sensitive to GLOP %.  I am getting L*<2 with IGFS and Epson
> Exhib.

Michael, I didn't use glop in the same pass with inks, and I measured prints without glop. I believe problem with 100% HP PK relates to my printer (2200), when I was printing BO with this ink on 1400, it produced very decent DMax and low banding. In my setup I have undiluted HPPK as toner with density 100 and UT7 C as Gray ink also with density 100, both inks are at default limit, so these two printed together. Somehow paper takes more inks this way -- none of two inks can reach DMax that high when used solo.

>You'll get much more neutral result from the following;
>
>K - 100% Eboni
...
>LM - 4% HPPK

Your setup uses mostly HP PK, right? I am pretty happy with Eboni on matte, I was intended to use minimum of HPPK, just to cool down lighter tones. Could you show DMax and Lab b curve for your setup?

--Sergei

Sergey,

No matter what curve you specify, QTR will not print glop (or any other ink) on pure white. You will need to fix that by hand as described in my post earlier today. Just keep in mind that drawback of this "fix" is that it will put down glop on the entire printable surface of the page, not only the area you think of as your image.

Here is a simple proof: print a pure white image. If the printhead starts to move left-right like it is printing something, it is placing glop. If it just spits the page right out of the printer, you have no glop on pure white.

Marko

On 2010-02-05, at 9:13, santonov2you wrote:

> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Marko Milisavljevic <marko.mili@...> wrote:
> >
> > You can force QTR to put glop in 255 white areas by doing the following:
> 
> Thanks, Marco.
> 
> I am placing glop everywhere on paper using "curve" like 0,15;100,20, but it gives different gloss on places with and without inks, that gives some visible gloss difference. It is much less difference than "bronzing" produces, but not as uniform as couple of layers of PrintShield.
> 
> --Sergei
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>Your setup uses mostly HP PK, right? I am pretty happy with Eboni on
matte, I was intended to use minimum of HPPK, just to cool down lighter
tones. Could you show DMax and Lab b curve for your setup?

Dmax depends on paper (and batch) - L*=14 - 16 typically.
(in the version I sent Sergei directly -Attached is the ab curve for HPR (51
step))
You'll see that "b" (series 2) stays pretty close (+0.5, -0.2) to paper
white right until the deep shadows (where it hits 1.8 @ 47 out of 51 steps),
where you can't really see colour anyway. I may play around more with the
eboni 18% and keep "b" from falling below paper white at all. But first I
had to develop my own linearization program, because you can't linearize
with QTR once you hand tweak the quad file values, nor can you linearize
over multiple profiles if you blend in as a separate toner.

Mike

On 5 February 2010 19:00, santonov2you <drumscanner@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
> > >>K as gray curve produced very weak 100% spot, it had L 12 and 95% spot
> > was 3.2.
> >
> > Ok from my experience with HPPK you have to use very little GLOP (5%)
> with
> > the darker 50% of the tones, or it increases the L* reading.
> > HPPK is very sensitive to GLOP %. I am getting L*<2 with IGFS and Epson
> > Exhib.
>
> Michael, I didn't use glop in the same pass with inks, and I measured
> prints without glop. I believe problem with 100% HP PK relates to my printer
> (2200), when I was printing BO with this ink on 1400, it produced very
> decent DMax and low banding. In my setup I have undiluted HPPK as toner with
> density 100 and UT7 C as Gray ink also with density 100, both inks are at
> default limit, so these two printed together. Somehow paper takes more inks
> this way -- none of two inks can reach DMax that high when used solo.
>
> >You'll get much more neutral result from the following;
> >
> >K - 100% Eboni
> ...
> >LM - 4% HPPK
>
> Your setup uses mostly HP PK, right? I am pretty happy with Eboni on matte,
> I was intended to use minimum of HPPK, just to cool down lighter tones.
> Could you show DMax and Lab b curve for your setup?
>
> --Sergei
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
>
> You'll get much more neutral result from the following;
> 
> K - 100% Eboni
> C - 100% HPPK (this is about 50% density of Eboni)
> M - 16% HPPK
> Y - 18% Eboni (use this to warm up the 100% HPPK a bit).
> LC - 8% HPPK
> LM - 4% HPPK

Mike,

The fairly large gap between 100% and 16% HPPK seems a bit odd to me. Can you explain? Do you count on the 18% eboni to fill the gap?

Joost

Joost,

>>The fairly large gap between 100% and 16% HPPK seems a bit odd to me. Can
you explain? Do you count on the 18% eboni to fill the gap?

Sure, the HP ink gives good dmax in the midtones and the 20% curve (that I
use) shows a curve peak @ density 65% in my QTR curves and that's with only
a 37% ink load at that point. My set-up for C6 matte is -

100% Eboni
100% HPPK (this is about 50% density of Eboni)
20% HPPK
18% Eboni (use this to warm up the 100% HPPK a bit).
10% HPPK
5 % HPPK

16% was close enough to 20% so I just left it as an example.

I have not researched this deeply, but this set-up gives a good result (as
you will see with my print) and the reason I didn't use 30% or 50% HPPK was
because they are quite cool and I was trying to minimize the warming toner I
needed to use for ease of tuning.

Mike

On 5 February 2010 19:47, horstenj <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
> >
> > You'll get much more neutral result from the following;
> >
> > K - 100% Eboni
> > C - 100% HPPK (this is about 50% density of Eboni)
> > M - 16% HPPK
> > Y - 18% Eboni (use this to warm up the 100% HPPK a bit).
> > LC - 8% HPPK
> > LM - 4% HPPK
>
> Mike,
>
> The fairly large gap between 100% and 16% HPPK seems a bit odd to me. Can
> you explain? Do you count on the 18% eboni to fill the gap?
>
> Joost
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "santonov2you" <drumscanner@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all!
> 
> Finally I fixed my old 2200 and put there mix of C6 diluted HP PK inks
> and couple carbon inks from MIS that are compatible with glossy paper.
> Idea was to warm up black tones a little bit, I think pure HP PK is too
> cold in black. Inks positions are:
> 
> K - HP PK 100%
> LK - HP PK 33%
> C - MIS UT7 C
> M - HP PK 16%
> LC - MIS UT7 LC
> LM - HP PK 8%
> Y - MIS Glop
> 

Hi Sergei,

I'm collecting all the stuff I need to get going on warmed HPPK inks so I've no results yet. I am very interested in the effect of the two warm toners. Do you feel you really need them? 

My intuition would be to go for 5 HPPK (100% - 50% - 25% - 12%  - 6%) and only one warm toner (as Paul suggested earlier, a slightly diluted LK). That would allow for a strategy mith multiple overlaping HPPK curves, much like the Cone curves do, reducing artifacts in the curve transitions.

Did you try what happens if you use just one ot the two warm toners?

On the other hand, I note that Mike has yet another approach and is cutting back on the medium density (50% - 33%) inks in favor of a low density one. Interesting....

Joost

>... only one warm toner (as Paul suggested earlier, a slightly diluted LK). 

That's MIS "EZ - warm".  It's glossy compatible carbon and between LK and UT7-LC in density.  The 2400 Y=carbon strategy used that ink.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

>>On the other hand, I note that Mike has yet another approach and is
cutting back on the medium density (50% - 33%) inks in favor of a low
density one.

So just to be clear that is for matte where the 50% and 30% HPPK inks are
cool and difficult to warm up.
So I use 100%, 18% Eboni,  + 100%, 20%,10%,5% HPPK. Where the 18% Eboni is
used to warm up the 3/4 tones.
Note that 100% HPPK = 50% Eboni in density.

But for Glossy I use HPPK 100, 50, 20, 10, 5% + GO. But HPPK shadows are
very susceptible to GO %.
More than 10% GO in the shadows and the dmax reduces. Too much GO and you
can see the ink patches have a white haze.
I use 5% GO from dmax to 50% density and then increase it to about 75% GO at
paper white.

Mike




On 6 February 2010 07:04, horstenj <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "santonov2you" <drumscanner@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all!
> >
> > Finally I fixed my old 2200 and put there mix of C6 diluted HP PK inks
> > and couple carbon inks from MIS that are compatible with glossy paper.
> > Idea was to warm up black tones a little bit, I think pure HP PK is too
> > cold in black. Inks positions are:
> >
> > K - HP PK 100%
> > LK - HP PK 33%
> > C - MIS UT7 C
> > M - HP PK 16%
> > LC - MIS UT7 LC
> > LM - HP PK 8%
> > Y - MIS Glop
> >
>
> Hi Sergei,
>
> I'm collecting all the stuff I need to get going on warmed HPPK inks so
> I've no results yet. I am very interested in the effect of the two warm
> toners. Do you feel you really need them?
>
> My intuition would be to go for 5 HPPK (100% - 50% - 25% - 12% - 6%) and
> only one warm toner (as Paul suggested earlier, a slightly diluted LK). That
> would allow for a strategy mith multiple overlaping HPPK curves, much like
> the Cone curves do, reducing artifacts in the curve transitions.
>
> Did you try what happens if you use just one ot the two warm toners?
>
> On the other hand, I note that Mike has yet another approach and is cutting
> back on the medium density (50% - 33%) inks in favor of a low density one.
> Interesting....
>
> Joost
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "horstenj" 
I am very interested in the effect of the two warm toners. Do you feel you really need them? 
> 
> 
> Joost
>
Joost, I used two simply because I already have them in carts. And because I wasn't sure which density will work better. I could take UT7 C and dilute it to got something like this EZ Warm that Paul was talking about. From the other side, I think that UT7 C adds a lot to this DMax that I am getting, my printer produces lousy DMax with undiluted HKPK.

--Sergei

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "santonov2you" <drumscanner@...> wrote:

> From the other side, I think that UT7 C adds a lot to this DMax that I am getting, my printer produces lousy DMax with undiluted HKPK.

The open, but highly relevant, question for me is if the lousy Dmax comes from the microbanding you mentioned or that this happens because the HP PK is just not designed for use in an Epson. Does anyone else have experience?

Actually, originally I was considering to use MIS PK iso undiluted HP PK for cost reasons: I still have MIS PK in stock and in the HP 70 cartridges HP PK was more expensive. I dropped that idea as in HP 91 cartridges HP PK is much cheaper. But your experience could bring that idea back on the table. 

I only just subcribed to the Aardenburg database, so have not yet had to opportunity to delve in the data: Is MIS PK worse than HP PK in terms of longevity?  

Joost

So I've lost track of this thread a little, but just to be clear on HPPK
dmax -
on Glossy HPPK dmax is spectacular with 5% Glop overcoat I get below L*=2 on
Epson Trad and IGFS.
BUT if you increase Glop much over 5%, dmax starts to reduce dramatically
and ultimately you can see a white haze on the shadows.

Also Joost MIS PK as you know is warm, HPPK is neutralish. They are very
different beasts.
You could cool down MIS PK with Cyan but that Cyan would be you achilles
heel in terms of fading.

Mike


On matte HPPK is about 50% density of Eboni.

Mike

On 11 February 2010 10:57, horstenj <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "santonov2you" <drumscanner@...> wrote:
>
> > From the other side, I think that UT7 C adds a lot to this DMax that I am
> getting, my printer produces lousy DMax with undiluted HKPK.
>
> The open, but highly relevant, question for me is if the lousy Dmax comes
> from the microbanding you mentioned or that this happens because the HP PK
> is just not designed for use in an Epson. Does anyone else have experience?
>
> Actually, originally I was considering to use MIS PK iso undiluted HP PK
> for cost reasons: I still have MIS PK in stock and in the HP 70 cartridges
> HP PK was more expensive. I dropped that idea as in HP 91 cartridges HP PK
> is much cheaper. But your experience could bring that idea back on the
> table.
>
> I only just subcribed to the Aardenburg database, so have not yet had to
> opportunity to delve in the data: Is MIS PK worse than HP PK in terms of
> longevity?
>
> Joost
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Mike for the clarification (I got a bit lost myself...). That sooths my mind. HPPK 100% still the way to go. (By the way, my reasoning for considering 100% MIS PK was that in deep shadows color tends be relatively less important)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> So I've lost track of this thread a little, but just to be clear on HPPK
> dmax -
> on Glossy HPPK dmax is spectacular with 5% Glop overcoat I get below L*=2 on
> Epson Trad and IGFS.
> BUT if you increase Glop much over 5%, dmax starts to reduce dramatically
> and ultimately you can see a white haze on the shadows.
> 
> Also Joost MIS PK as you know is warm, HPPK is neutralish. They are very
> different beasts.
> You could cool down MIS PK with Cyan but that Cyan would be you achilles
> heel in terms of fading.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> On matte HPPK is about 50% density of Eboni.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 11 February 2010 10:57, horstenj <j.h.j.h@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "santonov2you" <drumscanner@> wrote:
> >
> > > From the other side, I think that UT7 C adds a lot to this DMax that I am
> > getting, my printer produces lousy DMax with undiluted HKPK.
> >
> > The open, but highly relevant, question for me is if the lousy Dmax comes
> > from the microbanding you mentioned or that this happens because the HP PK
> > is just not designed for use in an Epson. Does anyone else have experience?
> >
> > Actually, originally I was considering to use MIS PK iso undiluted HP PK
> > for cost reasons: I still have MIS PK in stock and in the HP 70 cartridges
> > HP PK was more expensive. I dropped that idea as in HP 91 cartridges HP PK
> > is much cheaper. But your experience could bring that idea back on the
> > table.
> >
> > I only just subcribed to the Aardenburg database, so have not yet had to
> > opportunity to delve in the data: Is MIS PK worse than HP PK in terms of
> > longevity?
> >
> > Joost
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>