Digital BW, The Print

Two days ago I ordered a couple of packs of H. William Turner. This 
morning I received the paper but it is Hahnemuhle Copperplate Board 
310. I have never seen this paper before and always thought that the 
name Copperplate was another name for German Etching.

I opened the paper and it is a white smooth heavyweight paper. Looks 
just like Photo Rag 308 but smoother. 

Before I accept it and have to pay for it, has anyone used H. 
Copperplate? Are the properties similar to German Etching, William 
Turner or Photo Rag?

Mike

Michael J. Kravit
Architect/Photographer
Boca Raton, Florida

Mike,

I have previously been told that Copperplate Board 310 and German Etching
are one and the same. It seems like you have a mislabelled product... or
<something else>?!?!

Nij

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mkravit [mailto:michael.kravit@...]
> Sent: 20 February 2002 15:09
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Hahnemuhle Copper Plate Board 310?
>
>
> Two days ago I ordered a couple of packs of H. William Turner. This
> morning I received the paper but it is Hahnemuhle Copperplate Board
> 310. I have never seen this paper before and always thought that the
> name Copperplate was another name for German Etching.
>
> I opened the paper and it is a white smooth heavyweight paper. Looks
> just like Photo Rag 308 but smoother.
>
> Before I accept it and have to pay for it, has anyone used H.
> Copperplate? Are the properties similar to German Etching, William
> Turner or Photo Rag?
>
> Mike
>
> Michael J. Kravit
> Architect/Photographer
> Boca Raton, Florida

CopperPlate and German Etching are identical base substrates.
My "research" into these two items seemed to indicate that Hahnemuhle was offering the CopperPlate product before they started to offer inkjet coated versions of their papers. 
I know that German Etching is the inkjet coated version of Copperplate however, even Copperplate itself now may be coated for inkjet ink receptivity.
The "safe" bet would probably be to use German Etching for inkjet work.
But call your supplier for clarification.
 - JT

>>  Two days ago I ordered a couple of packs of H. William Turner. This 
  >>  morning I received the paper but it is Hahnemuhle Copperplate Board 
  >>  310. I have never seen this paper before and always thought that the 
  >>  name Copperplate was another name for German Etching.

  >>  I opened the paper and it is a white smooth heavyweight paper. Looks 
  >>  just like Photo Rag 308 but smoother. 

  >>  Before I accept it and have to pay for it, has anyone used H. 
  >>  Copperplate? Are the properties similar to German Etching, William 
  >>  Turner or Photo Rag?

  >>  Mike

  >>  Michael J. Kravit
  >>  Architect/Photographer
  >>  Boca Raton, Florida


  >>  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
  >>   other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  >>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  >>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  >>  - Include your full name with your message.
  >>  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  >>  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
  >>   them short.
  >>  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  >>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  >>  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  >>  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
  >>   resources on the homepage. 


  >>   

  >>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Thanks John,

I am now really confused. 

The Copperplate is visually different from the German Etching I have. 
Placed a call to my distributor, but she was out. Should hear soon.

MIke


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., John Thompson 
<alphajohn@m...> wrote:
> CopperPlate and German Etching are identical base substrates.
> My "research" into these two items seemed to indicate that 
Hahnemuhle was offering the CopperPlate product before they started 
to offer inkjet coated versions of their papers. 
> I know that German Etching is the inkjet coated version of 
Copperplate however, even Copperplate itself now may be coated for 
inkjet ink receptivity.
> The "safe" bet would probably be to use German Etching for inkjet 
work.
> But call your supplier for clarification.
>  - JT
> 
> >>  Two days ago I ordered a couple of packs of H. William Turner. 
This 
>   >>  morning I received the paper but it is Hahnemuhle Copperplate 
Board 
>   >>  310. I have never seen this paper before and always thought 
that the 
>   >>  name Copperplate was another name for German Etching.
> 
>   >>  I opened the paper and it is a white smooth heavyweight 
paper. Looks 
>   >>  just like Photo Rag 308 but smoother. 
> 
>   >>  Before I accept it and have to pay for it, has anyone used H. 
>   >>  Copperplate? Are the properties similar to German Etching, 
William 
>   >>  Turner or Photo Rag?
> 
>   >>  Mike
> 
>   >>  Michael J. Kravit
>   >>  Architect/Photographer
>   >>  Boca Raton, Florida
> 
> 
>   >>  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls and
>   >>   other resources as they are often being updated. The page is 
at:
> 
>   >>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   >>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   >>  - Include your full name with your message.
>   >>  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   >>  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
>   >>   them short.
>   >>  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject header.
>   >>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
>   >>  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   >>  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and 
the various
>   >>   resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>   >>   
> 
>   >>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Nigel,

It seems like what I received was in reality Photo Rag 308. I cut a 
sheet and took it home with me thei evening. Side by side I can see 
no difference between what was labeled as "Copper Plate Board 310" 
and a package of Photo Rag 308.

The dealer is supposed to get back to me tomorrow.
If it is H. PR 308 I will keep it.

Mike


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Nij" <nigel@m...> wrote:
> Mike,
> 
> I have previously been told that Copperplate Board 310 and German 
Etching
> are one and the same. It seems like you have a mislabelled 
product... or
> <something else>?!?!

I forgot to mention before, Mike, that we must not forget that mould-made
papers change in texture as the mould wears out, so the surface feel of the
papers can change within reason. This is obviously not the case with
yourself... but worth noting for the benefit of others, perhaps.

Nij

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mkravit [mailto:michael.kravit@...]
> Sent: 21 February 2002 00:45
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Hahnemuhle Copper Plate Board 310?
>
>
> Nigel,
>
> It seems like what I received was in reality Photo Rag 308. I cut a
> sheet and took it home with me thei evening. Side by side I can see
> no difference between what was labeled as "Copper Plate Board 310"
> and a package of Photo Rag 308.
>
> The dealer is supposed to get back to me tomorrow.
> If it is H. PR 308 I will keep it.
>
> Mike

Nij,

Good point....

Spoke with my dealer today. They feel that the paper was mislabeled. 
It in fact is PhotoRag 308. To me it is identical to the other PR 308 
I have. In any event, they are replacing it as I prefer William 
Turner's natural white color for the images I am printing.

Mike

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Nij" <nigel@m...> wrote:
> I forgot to mention before, Mike, that we must not forget that 
mould-made
> papers change in texture as the mould wears out, so the surface 
feel of the

> papers can change within reason. This is obviously not the case with
> yourself... but worth noting for the benefit of others, perhaps.
> 
> Nij

In a message dated 2/21/02 9:44:29 PM, michael.kravit@... writes:

<< Nij,

Good point....

Spoke with my dealer today. They feel that the paper was mislabeled. 
It in fact is PhotoRag 308. To me it is identical to the other PR 308 
I have. In any event, they are replacing it as I prefer William 
Turner's natural white color for the images I am printing.

Mike >>

Hi Mike:

Just curious if the Turner's flaking problem has improved and how you deal 
with the issue from the time it leaves the box to the time it goes on the 
wall.  I love the paper but can't have the flaking issue because it really 
can undermine the perceived quality of the prints by clients.

Thanks a lot.

Andy Darlow

Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
Andrew Darlow Images International, www.andydarlow.com
Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter) 
To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Andy,

I buy the William Turner 300gsm. I do not have any flaking problem 
with it. The only time I had a problem was when I purchsed the 
thinner sheets through IJM under the Wells River name. 

I just finished printing a limited edition portfolio in 16x20. All 
printes are on William Turner 300. None exhibit any flaking after 
showing the portfolio several times.

I also have prints on William Turner made months ago that get a fair 
bit of handling. No flaking there either.

Hope this helps.
Mike


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., shashinka@a... wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 2/21/02 9:44:29 PM, michael.kravit@w... writes:
> 
> << Nij,
> 
> Good point....
> 
> Spoke with my dealer today. They feel that the paper was 
mislabeled. 
> It in fact is PhotoRag 308. To me it is identical to the other PR 
308 
> I have. In any event, they are replacing it as I prefer William 
> Turner's natural white color for the images I am printing.
> 
> Mike >>
> 
> Hi Mike:
> 
> Just curious if the Turner's flaking problem has improved and how 
you deal 
> with the issue from the time it leaves the box to the time it goes 
on the 
> wall.  I love the paper but can't have the flaking issue because 
it really 

> can undermine the perceived quality of the prints by clients.
> 
> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Andy Darlow
> 
> Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
> Andrew Darlow Images International, www.andydarlow.com
> Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter) 
> To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@y...

Mike Kravit wrote:

> I just finished printing a limited edition portfolio in 16x20. All 
> printes are on William Turner 300. None exhibit any flaking 
after 
> showing the portfolio several times.
> 
> I also have prints on William Turner made months ago that get 
a fair 
> bit of handling. No flaking there either.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> Mike


Mike, I just can´t believe it. You don´t talk about German Etching, 
don´t you?
I love W.T. but I always had flaking problems with it.
I discussed the issue with some Hahnemule guys months ago. 
They were aware of the problem and stated, that it is caused by 
rag fibers, which have not enough time to lay down plane(ly) on 
the felt during the production process. They intended to slow 
down the production velocity to achieve a smoother surface, 
which hopefully won´t split off small coating particles.
Maybe they really achieved their aim.
I always brush or even vacuum clean my W.T. before printing.
Bernd

Hi Mike:

That's encouraging.  Would you kindly disclose your source-maybe they have 
magic powder that they spread on each sheet!

-Andy

Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
Andrew Darlow Images International, www.andydarlow.com
Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter) 
To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com