Doepfer

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:
> Okay, it sounds like I could skip the slew stuff and put together a 
> vocoder in a single row supplemented with my existing modules. Or, 
> I could get a 6U frame and put together a full-up vocoder with 3 
> 129/3s.

hi joe, go for the 6U and make it portable if you can, that way you 
can always take it with you to a gig or session. plus you'll kick 
yourself in the teeth when you may want to expand it and have to buy 
another case.

> 
> I've got a couple more questions:
> 
> I thought the 129/4 could control three 129/3s. Why is 3 X 129/4 
> suggested?

the A129/4 can control either 1, 2 or 3 A129/3 slew-limiters. it all 
depends on the sound texture you wish to have. you could use 1 slew 
controller for 3 slew -limiters to have a homogenous  slew of all the 
bands or you could do combinations with 1, 2, or 3 slew controllers 
to animate the process further, i.e you 1 slew controller doing the 
lower and higher bands and a second slew controller for the middle 
bands to make the slew slower or faster than the other bands for 
accenting or any combination there of between the slew limiters and 
slew controllers.

 now if you mismatch the bands from the analysis section to the 
synthesis section and apply the above process you get different 
results. again experimentation is the key. it is important that the 
material analyzed is devoid of noise, distortion etc. and is as clean 
and clear as possible once you start doing your vocoding, unless you 
are looking for that effect. a little compression on before the input 
also affects the analysis, try it out and see what is agreeable to 
your ear or the track you making.

> 
> I still don't grok how the variable waveform capability of the 146 
is 
> used with a vocoder, but I suppose it would become clear if I 
actually 
> tried it.

think of it as PWM, except you are changing the harmonic distribution 
of the triangle by manually changing the wave from rising sawtooth to 
descending sawtooth. when is it rising it feels like the attack of an 
EG and drops to its start point. when is it is descending it starts 
at the top and decays like an EG and starts at the top again.

my sugestion to Doepfer would to emcompass all of the functions of 
the A145, A146 and A147 and put them into one module with a gate 
delay instead of having all these lfo's with different functions. one 
obvious improvement to the A146 would be to have voltage control of 
the waveform shape. it is impossible to do so right now with the 
current lfo's. maybe we should have a poll to ask Doepfer to make 
such a module. or make a double lfo with all of the above functions 
and have a switch to put them in a quadrature relationship to each 
other and have a pot to control the time and a vc input.

> 
> The 129/1/2 documentation talks about a "special" 191 that has 
three 
> additional CV outs, instead of the midi-sync LFO, to give enough CV 
> outs for the 129/2. So if I wanted midi in/out for the vocoder, I'd 
> have to get ANOTHER 191?

yes, that is correct.

regards,
RM



> 
> Does anyone know about this "special" 191? I've never seen one 
> anywhere. It would be kind of slick, I could also use my Regelwerk 
as 
> a graphic EQ with the 129/2.
> 
> I suppose I could just get a second stock 191 and use it on a 
> different channel, but then I'd have to remap the 129/1 outputs 
going 
> out through a 192 to get it to work on playback.
> 
> Joe
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > You are indeed an intense vocoding wildman.  I should point out 
that
> > someone newly experimenting with vocoding could get 80% of the 
way 
> there
> > with the analysis and synthesis modules and a preamp and something
> > feeding the instrument input -- richest choice obviously being 
> sawtooth
> > waves.  All right, perhaps also the voiced/unvoiced detector. 
> > Everything else builds from that.  I also believe that for simple
> > vocoding, there are cheaper routes -- the real beauty of Doepfer's
> > version is its complete open-endedness.  Frankly, it can actually 
> sound
> > a little dirty, not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
> > 
> > And now, senseless rambling about cases and aesthetics:  I *love* 
> the
> > idea of a 4-row 168-hp case.  I've got 9 84-hp rows in a couple of
> > Raxxess racks, which is fine but inelegant.  Then again, when you 
> start
> > patching up those closely-space Doepfer modules with skinny
> > technicolored patchcords the look becomes inelegant pretty fast 
> anyway. 
> > The Doepfer is a kickass modular cleverly disguised as cheap lab
> > equipment.  I really just care about the sound.  I like the looks 
of
> > Analogue Systems' case, but it's so expensive.  Somehow 
> Synthesizers.com
> > manages to offer a great-looking slanted case for much, much 
less.  
> I
> > wish it fit Doepfer-size modules.  
> > 
> > If Synthesizers.com offered anywhere near the module catalog of 
> Doepfer,
> > I'd be severely tempted, both for ergonomics -- big knobs, large
> > real-estate -- and jacks longevity.  I need to find some 
> impoverished
> > person surviving on beads of solder to do a massive banana-jack
> > retrofit.  That would render the machine immortal.  I'd never 
trust
> > myself to do it.
> > 
> > 
> > ringmod45 wrote:
> > > 
> > > hi joe, doepfer recommends the A117 because of the 808 sound 
> source
> > > part has 2 sound sources which are harmonicaly rich and complex 
> and
> > > the digital noise or you could use the A118's straight white and
> > > coloured noise which contains all the frequencies both flat and
> > > coloured with different spectrum shifts.
> > > 
> > > what the A117 has is a tuned bank of sawtooth oscillators. the 
> plus
> > > side is you have a harmonically rich source, the down side is 
you
> > > have no tuning available on the source.  you could always use 
an 
> A121
> > > multimode filter to modify the source. but remember if you are 
> using
> > > it as an unvoiced source, having the ability to tune the source 
is
> > > redundant. same goes with the digital noise. if you use an A147 
> lfo
> > > which is synced to the tempo of your track, you could use it to
> > > modulate the A117's digital noise and have a random synced 
source 
> for
> > > your voiced or unvoiced input. you could also use an A115 
divider 
> as
> > > a real time modulator for the the A147's vc input. the best 
thing 
> to
> > > do is to experiment, think outside of the box.
> > > 
> > > to really implement the vocoder to its maximum capabilities, you
> > > would need to have the A129-1/2, 3 A129/3, 3A129/4 and 1 A129/5.
> > > 
> > > you will then need a compliment of modules for sources, 
modifiers 
> and
> > > processors. you will need an A119 for input and envelope 
follower
> > > functions to bring an external source for the speech input. you 
> will
> > > need an A117 and an A118 or both as a source for the unvoiced 
> noise
> > > input. you will need at least 1 A110 or A111 for the voiced 
input.
> > > you will need a mixer to mix the vocoded output with the high 
out 
> of
> > > the A129/1. you need at least one of each following to control 
the
> > > A129/4, 1 A147, 1 A132, 1 A148 and 1 A140.
> > > 
> > > if you wish to have more control, you can add the A191 & A192 to
> > > record, edit and playback your vocoded material. another 
> suggestion
> > > would be to use the A129/3 slew-limiters after the A129/1 
analysis
> > > section as manual controllers before the A192 for a rough 
realtime
> > > sketch for further editing in your pc sequencer.
> > > 
> > > if you want to have a smooth transition between the voiced and
> > > unvoiced inputs, you will need 2 A170's or A171's if you wish to
> > > voltage control of the transitions, 2 A130's, 1 A165 and 1 A138 
to 
> do
> > > the job.
> > > 
> > > i have 2 portable A100 cases dedicated to external processing, 
> here
> > > is the layout
> > >                          case #1
> > > 
> > > top   A117, A148, A147, A171, A171, A132, ASo MX224, ASo MX61, 
> A115
> > > bot   A177, A119, A119, A129/1, A129/3, A129/3, power supply
> > > 
> > >                          case #2
> > > top   A129/5, A129/4 ASo Mx224, 2 x A121, 2 x A125, 2xASy 
rs120, 
> A134
> > > bot   A129/3, A192, A191, A136, A136, ASy rs60, A138, power 
supply
> > > 
> > > i also change modules around when more of one needed than the 
> other.i
> > > plan build next case to include 1 more A124, 2 A127, 2 ASy rs240
> > > frequency shifters, 2 ASy rs310, 2 A103 and 1 A174.
> > > 
> > > once the Analogue Systems VC delays arrive i plan on building a
> > > special 4 row case with 168 hp per row. i hope some this helps 
you 
> in
> > > your quest for a vocoder.
> > > 
> > > regards,
> > > RM
> > > 
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> 
wrote:
> > > > Hi RM
> > > > I have four rows of modules, so I was considering the 129/1 
and
> > > 129/2
> > > > and associated modules that would fit in a single 3U row.
> > > >
> > > > So maybe 129/1, 129/2 and 3X 129/3 - 80U, there's a row.
> > > >
> > > > Or for adding vocal processing, maybe 129/1, 129/2, 129/3, 
> 129/5,
> > > 117,
> > > > 146, 192 (for recording the analysis CVs.)
> > > >
> > > > Why is DNG recommended on the Doepfer web page? I already 
have 
> an
> > > 118,
> > > > would that be adequate for unvoiced?
> > > >
> > > > Likewise the 146? I already have 2X 145 and 147?
> > > >
> > > > Sorry I'm a bit ingnorant about vocoder stuff.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> 
wrote:
> > > > > Joe,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not quite sure I'm getting the gist of your 
terms "voice" 
> and
> > > > > "one-row configuration", but as for the vocoder I'd say you 
> could
> > > > get by
> > > > > for a lot of purposes just fine with just the analysis 
section
> > > and
> > > > the
> > > > > synthesis section (A-129/1 and A-129/2).  If you're 
bringing 
> in a
> > > > > microphone, the A-129/5 is useful.  The A-129/3 takes you 
into 
> a
> > > > realm
> > > > > of being able to edit the voltages you're bringing into the
> > > > synthesis
> > > > > section (three 129/3s -- the ideal full complement -- turns 
> the
> > > > vocoder
> > > > > into a filterbank; I've only got one), and the A-129/4 adds 
> slew.
> > > > >
> > > > > For most of my uses, I'm really only using the analysis and
> > > > synthesis
> > > > > modules.  That certainly won't eat up a row.
> > > > >
> > > > > But if by "one-row configuration" you mean a 3U row of 
modules 
> as
> > > > the
> > > > > extent of the instrument, I think the standard 3U 
> configuration
> > > > offered
> > > > > by Doepfer hits the mark with module choices for 
versatility, 
> and
> > > > > shoehorning in the vocoder would probably not be advisable
> > > there.
> > > > If
> > > > > you just wanted a simple outboard vocoder you could 
probably 
> pick
> > > up
> > > > an
> > > > > Electrix WarpFactory for under $200 on eBay, and though not
> > > modular
> > > > it's
> > > > > a pretty fun and good-sounding, especially for the price.
> > > Frankly
> > > > it
> > > > > tempts me, too, for certain kinds of quick and easy
> > > > formant-capturing,
> > > > > and it's stereo.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > buechlerjoe wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi UF
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You've got me kind of interested. Jeez, I swore I was 
happy
> > > with
> > > > my
> > > > > > A100 configuration, too :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What you recommend for a Vocoder configuration as a 
> supplement
> > > to
> > > > an
> > > > > > existing A100 voice? Would this allow a decent one-row
> > > > configuration?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. As far as EVERYONE's knowledge here in the group, I 
> think
> > > > > > that's what's unquestionable. I'm constantly amazed at the
> > > range
> > > > of
> > > > > > useful information shared by everyone here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> 
> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hey Pig,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't mind your having a wallow.  Yes, I've got the
> > > vocoder,
> > > > and I
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled.  My 
most
> > > > typical
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a
> > > > sequenced
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out 
> individual
> > > > bands.
> > > > > > > Vocoders have a ton of uses.  My comment that the patch 
> Peter
> > > > > > described
> > > > > > > could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true -- 
> what's
> > > a
> > > > > > vocoder
> > > > > > > after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has 
> its
> > > own
> > > > VCA.
> > > > > > > The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output 
> for
> > > all
> > > > the
> > > > > > > bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't 
> really
> > > > matter.
> > > > > > > There must be patches for which it *would* matter to 
have
> > > > individual
> > > > > > > band outputs for separate processing, but for simple 
> VCAing
> > > of
> > > > bands
> > > > > > > where they'd be going to the same destination, the 
vocoder
> > > does
> > > > the
> > > > > > > job.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an 
individual 
> band
> > > > output
> > > > > > > helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the
> > > > particular
> > > > > > > example sounded like one that could be done without one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > 
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