Doepfer

While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he mentioned a new 
Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank utility module.  
Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank, and gives 
unattenuated outputs for each frequency.

Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think so.  I know this is a 
dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?

Let the debate begin.

Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-einzelausg.html
on the modular planet. It´s how you solder individual outs for the a-
128, the down side is that it´s in german.

Keld



--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> wrote:
> While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he mentioned a 
new 
> Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank utility module.  
> Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank, and gives 
> unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> 
> Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think so.  I know this is 
a 

> dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> 
> Let the debate begin.

Agreed, but that would require 15 voltages.  I think it would be 
easier to get the outputs from an A128.

Regards,
Kevin

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> You could get this with the basic vocoder modules, as long as you 
drove
> the band CV inputs with voltages.  Any tunable DC would do -- A-
129/3s
> or A-176s, for example.
> 
> studio1dk wrote:
> > 
> > Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-
einzelausg.html
> > on the modular planet. It´s how you solder individual outs for 
the a-
> > 128, the down side is that it´s in german.
> > 
> > Keld
> > 
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> wrote:
> > > While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he mentioned a
> > new
> > > Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank utility module.
> > > Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank, and gives
> > > unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> > >
> > > Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think so.  I know 
this is
> > a
> > > dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> > >
> > > Let the debate begin.
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

You could get this with the basic vocoder modules, as long as you drove
the band CV inputs with voltages.  Any tunable DC would do -- A-129/3s
or A-176s, for example.

studio1dk wrote:

> 
> Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-einzelausg.html
> on the modular planet. It´s how you solder individual outs for the a-
> 128, the down side is that it´s in german.
> 
> Keld
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> wrote:
> > While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he mentioned a
> new
> > Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank utility module.
> > Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank, and gives
> > unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> >
> > Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think so.  I know this is
> a
> > dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> >
> > Let the debate begin.
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yes.

Precisely why some people get 3 A-129/3s for their vocoders.

I'm thinking of adding an A128 to my rig, but if I were concerned about
individual outs, I might just get two more A-129/3s.

code_pig wrote:

> 
> Agreed, but that would require 15 voltages.  I think it would be
> easier to get the outputs from an A128.
> 
> Regards,
> Kevin
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > You could get this with the basic vocoder modules, as long as you
> drove
> > the band CV inputs with voltages.  Any tunable DC would do -- A-
> 129/3s
> > or A-176s, for example.
> >
> > studio1dk wrote:
> > >
> > > Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-
> einzelausg.html
> > > on the modular planet. It´s how you solder individual outs for
> the a-
> > > 128, the down side is that it´s in german.
> > >
> > > Keld
> > >
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> wrote:
> > > > While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he mentioned a
> > > new
> > > > Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank utility module.
> > > > Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank, and gives
> > > > unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> > > >
> > > > Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think so.  I know
> this is
> > > a
> > > > dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> > > >
> > > > Let the debate begin.
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Once again, agreed.  On the other hand, that is a complex and 
expensive solution to a rather simple problem.


--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> Yes.
> 
> Precisely why some people get 3 A-129/3s for their vocoders.
> 
> I'm thinking of adding an A128 to my rig, but if I were concerned 
about
> individual outs, I might just get two more A-129/3s.
> 
> code_pig wrote:
> > 
> > Agreed, but that would require 15 voltages.  I think it would be
> > easier to get the outputs from an A128.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
> > 
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > You could get this with the basic vocoder modules, as long as 
you
> > drove
> > > the band CV inputs with voltages.  Any tunable DC would do -- A-
> > 129/3s
> > > or A-176s, for example.
> > >
> > > studio1dk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-
> > einzelausg.html
> > > > on the modular planet. It´s how you solder individual outs for
> > the a-
> > > > 128, the down side is that it´s in german.
> > > >
> > > > Keld
> > > >
> > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> wrote:
> > > > > While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he 
mentioned a
> > > > new
> > > > > Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank utility module.
> > > > > Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank, and 
gives
> > > > > unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> > > > >
> > > > > Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think so.  I know
> > this is
> > > > a
> > > > > dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> > > > >
> > > > > Let the debate begin.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

That depends on whether you already have the vocoder -- with at least
one A-129/3 -- in your rig, as I do.  Two more A-129/3s from enport
would run you $234, while an A-128 would run $160, but you have to also
figure in parts, time, and soldering iron misery for the modification to
the A-128 for the same effect.  If you're talking about complexity, the
modification to the A-128 would be the first place I'd look, but to each
his/her own.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: code_pig [mailto:code_pig@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:16 PM
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> 
> 
> Once again, agreed.  On the other hand, that is a complex and 
> expensive solution to a rather simple problem.
> 
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > Yes.
> > 
> > Precisely why some people get 3 A-129/3s for their vocoders.
> > 
> > I'm thinking of adding an A128 to my rig, but if I were concerned
> about
> > individual outs, I might just get two more A-129/3s.
> > 
> > code_pig wrote:
> > > 
> > > Agreed, but that would require 15 voltages.  I think it would be 
> > > easier to get the outputs from an A128.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Kevin
> > > 
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > > You could get this with the basic vocoder modules, as long as
> you
> > > drove
> > > > the band CV inputs with voltages.  Any tunable DC would do -- A-
> > > 129/3s
> > > > or A-176s, for example.
> > > >
> > > > studio1dk wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-
> > > einzelausg.html
> > > > > on the modular planet. It´s how you solder individual outs for
> > > the a-
> > > > > 128, the down side is that it´s in german.
> > > > >
> > > > > Keld
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he
> mentioned a
> > > > > new
> > > > > > Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank 
> utility module. 
> > > > > > Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank, and
> gives
> > > > > > unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think so.  I know
> > > this is
> > > > > a
> > > > > > dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let the debate begin.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
> > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
> > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
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> 
> 
>

As a side note, with the A-129/3 you'd also be picking up an
always-useful set of attenuators and tuneable DC sources.

(Still, my comments mostly apply to people who have the vocoder.)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: unknown freak [mailto:ospengler@rcn.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:46 PM
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> 
> 
> That depends on whether you already have the vocoder -- with 
> at least one A-129/3 -- in your rig, as I do.  Two more 
> A-129/3s from enport would run you $234, while an A-128 would 
> run $160, but you have to also figure in parts, time, and 
> soldering iron misery for the modification to the A-128 for 
> the same effect.  If you're talking about complexity, the 
> modification to the A-128 would be the first place I'd look, 
> but to each his/her own.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: code_pig [mailto:code_pig@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:16 PM
> > To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> > 
> > 
> > Once again, agreed.  On the other hand, that is a complex and
> > expensive solution to a rather simple problem.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > Yes.
> > > 
> > > Precisely why some people get 3 A-129/3s for their vocoders.
> > > 
> > > I'm thinking of adding an A128 to my rig, but if I were concerned
> > about
> > > individual outs, I might just get two more A-129/3s.
> > > 
> > > code_pig wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Agreed, but that would require 15 voltages.  I think it would be
> > > > easier to get the outputs from an A128.
> > > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Kevin
> > > > 
> > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > > > You could get this with the basic vocoder modules, as long as
> > you
> > > > drove
> > > > > the band CV inputs with voltages.  Any tunable DC 
> would do -- A-
> > > > 129/3s
> > > > > or A-176s, for example.
> > > > >
> > > > > studio1dk wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-
> > > > einzelausg.html
> > > > > > on the modular planet. It´s how you solder 
> individual outs for
> > > > the a-
> > > > > > 128, the down side is that it´s in german.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keld
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he
> > mentioned a
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > > Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank
> > utility module.
> > > > > > > Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank, and
> > gives
> > > > > > > unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think 
> so.  I know
> > > > this is
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let the debate begin.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Free $5 Love Reading
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
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> > 
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> 
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>

I HAVE BEEN BEGGING ANALOGUE SYSTEMS TGO DO THIS FOR MONTHS!!!!!---


this would be a GREAT module. It would probably require a re-design of thei=
r fixed filter PCB art however to 
create a ribbon connector out out for each.  


 In Doepfer_a100@y..., "studio1dk" <keldsorensen@m...> wrote:

> Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-einzelausg.html
> on the modular planet. It´s how you solder individual outs for the a-
> 128, the down side is that it´s in german.
> 
> Keld
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> wrote:
> > While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he mentioned a 
> new 
> > Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank utility module.  
> > Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank, and gives 
> > unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> > 
> > Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think so.  I know this is 
> a 
> > dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> > 
> > Let the debate begin.

Without wanting to seem like a prat, I have to point out a few 
realities to your solution.

First, you are correct in saying that the A129 components will do the 
job, but that is assuming one has a vocoder (cost: $680 without 
shipping).

Then one must purchase 2 more A129/3's ($117 each), and that runs the 
price up to $916 (again, without shipping).  As I said before, it's 
one hell of an expensive way to get individual outputs from the A128.

Then there's the physical differences.  The A129's filter types (1 
LP, 13 BP, and 1 HP) are different than the A128's 15 BP filters.  
Then, the frequencies of the A129 (lowest frequency is 100hZ) are 
different than the A128 (lowest frequency is 50hZ).

In short, looking at the cost of the vocoder and additional modules, 
I certainly feel modifying my A128 is well worth the time.

Regards,
Kevin


--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "unknown freak" <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> As a side note, with the A-129/3 you'd also be picking up an
> always-useful set of attenuators and tuneable DC sources.
> 
> (Still, my comments mostly apply to people who have the vocoder.)
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: unknown freak [mailto:ospengler@r...] 
> > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:46 PM
> > To: Doepfer_a100@y...
> > Subject: RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> > 
> > 
> > That depends on whether you already have the vocoder -- with 
> > at least one A-129/3 -- in your rig, as I do.  Two more 
> > A-129/3s from enport would run you $234, while an A-128 would 
> > run $160, but you have to also figure in parts, time, and 
> > soldering iron misery for the modification to the A-128 for 
> > the same effect.  If you're talking about complexity, the 
> > modification to the A-128 would be the first place I'd look, 
> > but to each his/her own.
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: code_pig [mailto:code_pig@y...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:16 PM
> > > To: Doepfer_a100@y...
> > > Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Once again, agreed.  On the other hand, that is a complex and
> > > expensive solution to a rather simple problem.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > > Yes.
> > > > 
> > > > Precisely why some people get 3 A-129/3s for their vocoders.
> > > > 
> > > > I'm thinking of adding an A128 to my rig, but if I were 
concerned
> > > about
> > > > individual outs, I might just get two more A-129/3s.
> > > > 
> > > > code_pig wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Agreed, but that would require 15 voltages.  I think it 
would be
> > > > > easier to get the outputs from an A128.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Kevin
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> 
wrote:
> > > > > > You could get this with the basic vocoder modules, as 
long as
> > > you
> > > > > drove
> > > > > > the band CV inputs with voltages.  Any tunable DC 
> > would do -- A-
> > > > > 129/3s
> > > > > > or A-176s, for example.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > studio1dk wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-
> > > > > einzelausg.html
> > > > > > > on the modular planet. It´s how you solder 
> > individual outs for
> > > > > the a-
> > > > > > > 128, the down side is that it´s in german.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keld
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> 
wrote:
> > > > > > > > While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he
> > > mentioned a
> > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank
> > > utility module.
> > > > > > > > Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank, 
and

> > > gives
> > > > > > > > unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think 
> > so.  I know
> > > > > this is
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let the debate begin.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> > 
> >

No pratness involved -- perhaps minor deafness to my saying this mainly
applied to people who already have a vocoder with an A-129/3:  "(Still,
my comments mostly apply to people who have the vocoder.)"

I'd be curious to see how it goes.  Roger Arrick made some goofs in
realizing the Synthesizers.com version, like very low amplitudes at the
individual outs.

What sort of musical effects are you looking to get via tapping
individual band outs from the Filterbank?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: code_pig [mailto:code_pig@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:33 PM
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> 
> 
> Without wanting to seem like a prat, I have to point out a few 
> realities to your solution.
> 
> First, you are correct in saying that the A129 components will do the 
> job, but that is assuming one has a vocoder (cost: $680 without 
> shipping).
> 
> Then one must purchase 2 more A129/3's ($117 each), and that runs the 
> price up to $916 (again, without shipping).  As I said before, it's 
> one hell of an expensive way to get individual outputs from the A128.
> 
> Then there's the physical differences.  The A129's filter types (1 
> LP, 13 BP, and 1 HP) are different than the A128's 15 BP filters.  
> Then, the frequencies of the A129 (lowest frequency is 100hZ) are 
> different than the A128 (lowest frequency is 50hZ).
> 
> In short, looking at the cost of the vocoder and additional modules, 
> I certainly feel modifying my A128 is well worth the time.
> 
> Regards,
> Kevin
> 
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "unknown freak" <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > As a side note, with the A-129/3 you'd also be picking up an 
> > always-useful set of attenuators and tuneable DC sources.
> > 
> > (Still, my comments mostly apply to people who have the vocoder.)
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: unknown freak [mailto:ospengler@r...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:46 PM
> > > To: Doepfer_a100@y...
> > > Subject: RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> > > 
> > > 
> > > That depends on whether you already have the vocoder -- with
> > > at least one A-129/3 -- in your rig, as I do.  Two more 
> > > A-129/3s from enport would run you $234, while an A-128 would 
> > > run $160, but you have to also figure in parts, time, and 
> > > soldering iron misery for the modification to the A-128 for 
> > > the same effect.  If you're talking about complexity, the 
> > > modification to the A-128 would be the first place I'd look, 
> > > but to each his/her own.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: code_pig [mailto:code_pig@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:16 PM
> > > > To: Doepfer_a100@y...
> > > > Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Once again, agreed.  On the other hand, that is a complex and 
> > > > expensive solution to a rather simple problem.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > > > Yes.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Precisely why some people get 3 A-129/3s for their vocoders.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm thinking of adding an A128 to my rig, but if I were
> concerned
> > > > about
> > > > > individual outs, I might just get two more A-129/3s.
> > > > > 
> > > > > code_pig wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Agreed, but that would require 15 voltages.  I think it
> would be
> > > > > > easier to get the outputs from an A128.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Kevin
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > You could get this with the basic vocoder modules, as
> long as
> > > > you
> > > > > > drove
> > > > > > > the band CV inputs with voltages.  Any tunable DC
> > > would do -- A-
> > > > > > 129/3s
> > > > > > > or A-176s, for example.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > studio1dk wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-
> > > > > > einzelausg.html
> > > > > > > > on the modular planet. It´s how you solder
> > > individual outs for
> > > > > > the a-
> > > > > > > > 128, the down side is that it´s in german.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Keld
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he
> > > > mentioned a
> > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank
> > > > utility module.
> > > > > > > > > Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank,
> and
> > > > gives
> > > > > > > > > unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think
> > > so.  I know
> > > > > > this is
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Let the debate begin.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
> > > > > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
> > > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > 
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> > > >  
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> 
>

Actually, I'm full of sh_t.  The A-129 doesn't give individual band outs
-- rather, it gives individual voltage control of band amplitudes, which
for a lot of uses, but certainly not all, amounts to the same thing. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: unknown freak [mailto:ospengler@rcn.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:43 PM
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> 
> 
> No pratness involved -- perhaps minor deafness to my saying 
> this mainly applied to people who already have a vocoder with 
> an A-129/3:  "(Still, my comments mostly apply to people who 
> have the vocoder.)"
> 
> I'd be curious to see how it goes.  Roger Arrick made some 
> goofs in realizing the Synthesizers.com version, like very 
> low amplitudes at the individual outs.
> 
> What sort of musical effects are you looking to get via 
> tapping individual band outs from the Filterbank?
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: code_pig [mailto:code_pig@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:33 PM
> > To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> > 
> > 
> > Without wanting to seem like a prat, I have to point out a few
> > realities to your solution.
> > 
> > First, you are correct in saying that the A129 components 
> will do the
> > job, but that is assuming one has a vocoder (cost: $680 without 
> > shipping).
> > 
> > Then one must purchase 2 more A129/3's ($117 each), and 
> that runs the
> > price up to $916 (again, without shipping).  As I said before, it's 
> > one hell of an expensive way to get individual outputs from 
> the A128.
> > 
> > Then there's the physical differences.  The A129's filter types (1
> > LP, 13 BP, and 1 HP) are different than the A128's 15 BP filters.  
> > Then, the frequencies of the A129 (lowest frequency is 100hZ) are 
> > different than the A128 (lowest frequency is 50hZ).
> > 
> > In short, looking at the cost of the vocoder and additional modules,
> > I certainly feel modifying my A128 is well worth the time.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "unknown freak" <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > As a side note, with the A-129/3 you'd also be picking up an
> > > always-useful set of attenuators and tuneable DC sources.
> > > 
> > > (Still, my comments mostly apply to people who have the vocoder.)
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: unknown freak [mailto:ospengler@r...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:46 PM
> > > > To: Doepfer_a100@y...
> > > > Subject: RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > That depends on whether you already have the vocoder -- with at 
> > > > least one A-129/3 -- in your rig, as I do.  Two more 
> A-129/3s from 
> > > > enport would run you $234, while an A-128 would run 
> $160, but you 
> > > > have to also figure in parts, time, and soldering iron 
> misery for 
> > > > the modification to the A-128 for the same effect.  If you're 
> > > > talking about complexity, the modification to the A-128 
> would be 
> > > > the first place I'd look, but to each his/her own.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: code_pig [mailto:code_pig@y...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:16 PM
> > > > > To: Doepfer_a100@y...
> > > > > Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Once again, agreed.  On the other hand, that is a complex and
> > > > > expensive solution to a rather simple problem.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak 
> <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > Yes.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Precisely why some people get 3 A-129/3s for their vocoders.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I'm thinking of adding an A128 to my rig, but if I were
> > concerned
> > > > > about
> > > > > > individual outs, I might just get two more A-129/3s.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > code_pig wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Agreed, but that would require 15 voltages.  I think it
> > would be
> > > > > > > easier to get the outputs from an A128.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > Kevin
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > You could get this with the basic vocoder modules, as
> > long as
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > drove
> > > > > > > > the band CV inputs with voltages.  Any tunable DC
> > > > would do -- A-
> > > > > > > 129/3s
> > > > > > > > or A-176s, for example.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > studio1dk wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Check out: http://www.modular-planet.de/_tipps/a128-
> > > > > > > einzelausg.html
> > > > > > > > > on the modular planet. It´s how you solder
> > > > individual outs for
> > > > > > > the a-
> > > > > > > > > 128, the down side is that it´s in german.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Keld
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > While doing a bit of emailing  to Peter Grenader, he
> > > > > mentioned a
> > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > Synthesizer.com module that is a filter bank
> > > > > utility module.
> > > > > > > > > > Basically, it sits next to their fixed filter bank,
> > and
> > > > > gives
> > > > > > > > > > unattenuated outputs for each frequency.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Would this make a good Doepfer module?  I think
> > > > so.  I know
> > > > > > > this is
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > dumb question, but does anyone have an opinion?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Let the debate begin.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> 
> 
>

> 
> What sort of musical effects are you looking to get via tapping
> individual band outs from the Filterbank?

let me call attention of two specific applications for separate outs 
which some of you might enjoy.  I have to be a bit of a name 
dropper on this one.

One is running the output of a signal that is coming from a high 
Q band pass filter into the fixed filter and popping off the 
separate taps.  You will get an amazing sound from the minimal 
bandwidth of those two filters working in series.  If you control the 
bandpass with a random stepped sample and hold, then gate 
the outs of each of the fixed filter banks you are tapping off of with 
it's own envelope/VCA pair, things get even more interesting.  I 
will make an MP# this week of a piece of music i did years ago 
that used this effect.  it was a very cool effect.

The second application is even more fun:

Ok, I am old.  like mid-forties old.  I studied composition at Cal 
Arts.  I worked with Subotnick during the Sky of Cloudless Sulfer 
days.  I was one of the students who realized his control track 
score for SKY OCS from a score Mort wrote for us.  We recorded 
control signals which were generated form the computer in the 
Buchla 300 we had there. 

If you know that piece, if you know how control tracks work, this 
will be easy to understand.  Before midi, in order to pre-record 
information which you wanted to use to control a synth, you had 
to make a control track.  This was an audio track from a tape 
recorder, whose output was fed into an envelope follower in 
which voltage and trigger information was obtained.

If you have heard Sky of Cloudless Sulfer, or Until Spring for that 
matter, you'll get the idea that everything is synced, so massive 
control tracks had to be were used to pull it off, either that or a 
Buchla the size of a house.  A matter of fact,  Mort rented an 
Ampex eight track, dedicated four of the eight for control tracks 
and four only for the actual music - and that still wasn't enough 
for him. He needed more than four control tracks.  They were 
used to generate the pitch info, the meter  (timing), for the 
transcients, for timbre control and even spacial location of every 
single sound event in that piece of music.  This is why he 
needed only four track for audio.  He would set a patch up, start 
the deck with all the control tracks going through envelpe 
followers and the piece would basically play itself.  It's no big 
thing now with midi, but it was all voodoo back then.  We didnt 
know why Mort had us doing all this stuff and then he showed 
us and our mouths were on the floor. 

We spent about two months making the control tracks, which 
were very presicely scored, down to the second. He took those 
and recorded the entire record in one weekend.  30 minutes of 
music.

Because he needed more control tracks than the four channels 
would provide, we devised a way in which to put TWO control 
tracks on each audio track using the fixed outs of a Buchla fixed 
filter bank as a demultiplexer.  We would record two independant 
signals on one track of the deck They were nothing but bleeps of 
varying lengths. (short decay-only envelope sines used for timing 
later on and longer ones that swept panning, or opened 
envelops, etc).  Oneof the bleep track  was a low frequency sine 
tone, one was a higher frequency.  We would run the output of 
track through the fixed filter bank, tap off of the output which was 
the center frequency of the lower recorded tone, and then run an 
output which was the center frequency of the higher tone.

We fed both of those outs into two envelope followers.  

We were able to get two independant controls tracks on one 
recorded track with absolutely no cross talk.  We tried it with 
three but it started getting a little dicey.  I am not sure if that was 
due to the filter not being able to pick those off well enough,  the 
tape we were using to record them on (Ampex 406) or any 
harmonic distortion from the preamp in between .

Ok, using a fixed filter bank in this was is a bit archaic now, I 
admit, but it's an interesting story...no?

Anyway, if Doepfer releases this option, buy it.  It will be like a 
pulse divider - you won't use it every day, but when you do, you'l 
dig it.

Peter grenader

hi peter, great post thanks a lot for the info.

RM


--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "petergrenader" <petergrenader@h...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > What sort of musical effects are you looking to get via tapping
> > individual band outs from the Filterbank?
> 
> let me call attention of two specific applications for separate 
outs 
> which some of you might enjoy.  I have to be a bit of a name 
> dropper on this one.
> 
> One is running the output of a signal that is coming from a high 
> Q band pass filter into the fixed filter and popping off the 
> separate taps.  You will get an amazing sound from the minimal 
> bandwidth of those two filters working in series.  If you control 
the 
> bandpass with a random stepped sample and hold, then gate 
> the outs of each of the fixed filter banks you are tapping off of 
with 
> it's own envelope/VCA pair, things get even more interesting.  I 
> will make an MP# this week of a piece of music i did years ago 
> that used this effect.  it was a very cool effect.
> 
> The second application is even more fun:
> 
> Ok, I am old.  like mid-forties old.  I studied composition at Cal 
> Arts.  I worked with Subotnick during the Sky of Cloudless Sulfer 
> days.  I was one of the students who realized his control track 
> score for SKY OCS from a score Mort wrote for us.  We recorded 
> control signals which were generated form the computer in the 
> Buchla 300 we had there. 
> 
> If you know that piece, if you know how control tracks work, this 
> will be easy to understand.  Before midi, in order to pre-record 
> information which you wanted to use to control a synth, you had 
> to make a control track.  This was an audio track from a tape 
> recorder, whose output was fed into an envelope follower in 
> which voltage and trigger information was obtained.
> 
> If you have heard Sky of Cloudless Sulfer, or Until Spring for that 
> matter, you'll get the idea that everything is synced, so massive 
> control tracks had to be were used to pull it off, either that or a 
> Buchla the size of a house.  A matter of fact,  Mort rented an 
> Ampex eight track, dedicated four of the eight for control tracks 
> and four only for the actual music - and that still wasn't enough 
> for him. He needed more than four control tracks.  They were 
> used to generate the pitch info, the meter  (timing), for the 
> transcients, for timbre control and even spacial location of every 
> single sound event in that piece of music.  This is why he 
> needed only four track for audio.  He would set a patch up, start 
> the deck with all the control tracks going through envelpe 
> followers and the piece would basically play itself.  It's no big 
> thing now with midi, but it was all voodoo back then.  We didnt 
> know why Mort had us doing all this stuff and then he showed 
> us and our mouths were on the floor. 
> 
> We spent about two months making the control tracks, which 
> were very presicely scored, down to the second. He took those 
> and recorded the entire record in one weekend.  30 minutes of 
> music.
> 
> Because he needed more control tracks than the four channels 
> would provide, we devised a way in which to put TWO control 
> tracks on each audio track using the fixed outs of a Buchla fixed 
> filter bank as a demultiplexer.  We would record two independant 
> signals on one track of the deck They were nothing but bleeps of 
> varying lengths. (short decay-only envelope sines used for timing 
> later on and longer ones that swept panning, or opened 
> envelops, etc).  Oneof the bleep track  was a low frequency sine 
> tone, one was a higher frequency.  We would run the output of 
> track through the fixed filter bank, tap off of the output which 
was 
> the center frequency of the lower recorded tone, and then run an 
> output which was the center frequency of the higher tone.
> 
> We fed both of those outs into two envelope followers.  
> 
> We were able to get two independant controls tracks on one 
> recorded track with absolutely no cross talk.  We tried it with 
> three but it started getting a little dicey.  I am not sure if that 
was 
> due to the filter not being able to pick those off well enough,  
the 

> tape we were using to record them on (Ampex 406) or any 
> harmonic distortion from the preamp in between .
> 
> Ok, using a fixed filter bank in this was is a bit archaic now, I 
> admit, but it's an interesting story...no?
> 
> Anyway, if Doepfer releases this option, buy it.  It will be like a 
> pulse divider - you won't use it every day, but when you do, you'l 
> dig it.
> 
> Peter grenader

That's the same technique that I recommended when Duff was asking 
about recording CVs on digital audio equipment. But, I realized 
that calibration would be a major pain. The A192 would be a much 
better solution in the 21st century ;-)

The other stuff, I use outboard parametric EQ and outboard filters 
for. The DAF1 can give you 96db slope for LP, or 48db for bandpass or 
notch.

Joe

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "unknown freak" <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> The information about control tracks is fascinating.
> 
> (The patch involving the bandpass and fixed filterbank outs can be 
done
> with the vocoder.)
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: petergrenader [mailto:petergrenader@h...] 
> > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 10:33 PM
> > To: Doepfer_a100@y...
> > Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > What sort of musical effects are you looking to get via tapping 
> > > individual band outs from the Filterbank?
> > 
> > let me call attention of two specific applications for separate 
outs 

> > which some of you might enjoy.  I have to be a bit of a name 
> > dropper on this one ...
> >

The information about control tracks is fascinating.

(The patch involving the bandpass and fixed filterbank outs can be done
with the vocoder.)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: petergrenader [mailto:petergrenader@hotmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 10:33 PM
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Utility Module Request
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > What sort of musical effects are you looking to get via tapping 
> > individual band outs from the Filterbank?
> 
> let me call attention of two specific applications for separate outs 
> which some of you might enjoy.  I have to be a bit of a name 
> dropper on this one ...
>

Hey Freak, unknown as you may be, do you happen to own a Doepfer 
vocoder?  Okay, I'm having a bit of a dig (mind you though, in the 
nicest possible way).

In all seriousness though, Peter's examples of how one can use 
individual outputs of the A128 are spot on.  He's got a LOT of 
knowledge... trust me on this one.


--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "unknown freak" <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> (The patch involving the bandpass and fixed filterbank outs can be 
> done with the vocoder.)

This has been a very interesting topic. I wanted individual outs for 
the filter band a few years ago and decided the vocoder was the best 
route to go. I use the vocoder with a couple of A-176's controling 
the volume of each band, but thinking about it the Pocket Control 
would give me more control of each band.

Pete G is one clever dude!

Hey Pig,

I don't mind your having a wallow.  Yes, I've got the vocoder, and I use
and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled.  My most typical use
actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a sequenced or
LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out individual bands. 
Vocoders have a ton of uses.  My comment that the patch Peter described
could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true -- what's a vocoder
after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has its own VCA. 
The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output for all the
bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't really matter. 
There must be patches for which it *would* matter to have individual
band outputs for separate processing, but for simple VCAing of bands
where they'd be going to the same destination, the vocoder does the
job.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an individual band output
helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the particular
example sounded like one that could be done without one.


As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.

code_pig wrote:

> 
> Hey Freak, unknown as you may be, do you happen to own a Doepfer
> vocoder?  Okay, I'm having a bit of a dig (mind you though, in the
> nicest possible way).
> 
> In all seriousness though, Peter's examples of how one can use
> individual outputs of the A128 are spot on.  He's got a LOT of
> knowledge... trust me on this one.
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "unknown freak" <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > (The patch involving the bandpass and fixed filterbank outs can be
> > done with the vocoder.)

Hi UF

You've got me kind of interested. Jeez, I swore I was happy with my 
A100 configuration, too :-)

What you recommend for a Vocoder configuration as a supplement to an 
existing A100 voice? Would this allow a decent one-row configuration?

Joe

P.S. As far as EVERYONE's knowledge here in the group, I think 
that's what's unquestionable. I'm constantly amazed at the range of 
useful information shared by everyone here.

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> Hey Pig,
> 
> I don't mind your having a wallow.  Yes, I've got the vocoder, and I 
use
> and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled.  My most typical 
use
> actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a sequenced 
or
> LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out individual bands. 
> Vocoders have a ton of uses.  My comment that the patch Peter 
described
> could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true -- what's a 
vocoder

> after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has its own VCA. 
> The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output for all the
> bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't really matter. 
> There must be patches for which it *would* matter to have individual
> band outputs for separate processing, but for simple VCAing of bands
> where they'd be going to the same destination, the vocoder does the
> job.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an individual band output
> helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the particular
> example sounded like one that could be done without one.
> 
> 
> As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.

Hi RM
I have four rows of modules, so I was considering the 129/1 and 129/2 
and associated modules that would fit in a single 3U row.

So maybe 129/1, 129/2 and 3X 129/3 - 80U, there's a row. 

Or for adding vocal processing, maybe 129/1, 129/2, 129/3, 129/5, 117, 
146, 192 (for recording the analysis CVs.)

Why is DNG recommended on the Doepfer web page? I already have an 118, 
would that be adequate for unvoiced?

Likewise the 146? I already have 2X 145 and 147?

Sorry I'm a bit ingnorant about vocoder stuff.

Joe

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> Joe,
> 
> I'm not quite sure I'm getting the gist of your terms "voice" and
> "one-row configuration", but as for the vocoder I'd say you could 
get by
> for a lot of purposes just fine with just the analysis section and 
the
> synthesis section (A-129/1 and A-129/2).  If you're bringing in a
> microphone, the A-129/5 is useful.  The A-129/3 takes you into a 
realm
> of being able to edit the voltages you're bringing into the 
synthesis
> section (three 129/3s -- the ideal full complement -- turns the 
vocoder
> into a filterbank; I've only got one), and the A-129/4 adds slew.
> 
> For most of my uses, I'm really only using the analysis and 
synthesis
> modules.  That certainly won't eat up a row.
> 
> But if by "one-row configuration" you mean a 3U row of modules as 
the
> extent of the instrument, I think the standard 3U configuration 
offered
> by Doepfer hits the mark with module choices for versatility, and
> shoehorning in the vocoder would probably not be advisable there.  
If
> you just wanted a simple outboard vocoder you could probably pick up 
an
> Electrix WarpFactory for under $200 on eBay, and though not modular 
it's
> a pretty fun and good-sounding, especially for the price.  Frankly 
it
> tempts me, too, for certain kinds of quick and easy 
formant-capturing,
> and it's stereo.
> 
> 
> buechlerjoe wrote:
> > 
> > Hi UF
> > 
> > You've got me kind of interested. Jeez, I swore I was happy with 
my
> > A100 configuration, too :-)
> > 
> > What you recommend for a Vocoder configuration as a supplement to 
an
> > existing A100 voice? Would this allow a decent one-row 
configuration?
> > 
> > Joe
> > 
> > P.S. As far as EVERYONE's knowledge here in the group, I think
> > that's what's unquestionable. I'm constantly amazed at the range 
of
> > useful information shared by everyone here.
> > 
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > Hey Pig,
> > >
> > > I don't mind your having a wallow.  Yes, I've got the vocoder, 
and I
> > use
> > > and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled.  My most 
typical
> > use
> > > actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a 
sequenced
> > or
> > > LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out individual 
bands.
> > > Vocoders have a ton of uses.  My comment that the patch Peter
> > described
> > > could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true -- what's a
> > vocoder
> > > after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has its own 
VCA.
> > > The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output for all 
the
> > > bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't really 
matter.
> > > There must be patches for which it *would* matter to have 
individual
> > > band outputs for separate processing, but for simple VCAing of 
bands
> > > where they'd be going to the same destination, the vocoder does 
the
> > > job.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an individual band 
output
> > > helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the 
particular
> > > example sounded like one that could be done without one.
> > >
> > >
> > > As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Joe,

I'm not quite sure I'm getting the gist of your terms "voice" and
"one-row configuration", but as for the vocoder I'd say you could get by
for a lot of purposes just fine with just the analysis section and the
synthesis section (A-129/1 and A-129/2).  If you're bringing in a
microphone, the A-129/5 is useful.  The A-129/3 takes you into a realm
of being able to edit the voltages you're bringing into the synthesis
section (three 129/3s -- the ideal full complement -- turns the vocoder
into a filterbank; I've only got one), and the A-129/4 adds slew.

For most of my uses, I'm really only using the analysis and synthesis
modules.  That certainly won't eat up a row.

But if by "one-row configuration" you mean a 3U row of modules as the
extent of the instrument, I think the standard 3U configuration offered
by Doepfer hits the mark with module choices for versatility, and
shoehorning in the vocoder would probably not be advisable there.  If
you just wanted a simple outboard vocoder you could probably pick up an
Electrix WarpFactory for under $200 on eBay, and though not modular it's
a pretty fun and good-sounding, especially for the price.  Frankly it
tempts me, too, for certain kinds of quick and easy formant-capturing,
and it's stereo.


buechlerjoe wrote:

> 
> Hi UF
> 
> You've got me kind of interested. Jeez, I swore I was happy with my
> A100 configuration, too :-)
> 
> What you recommend for a Vocoder configuration as a supplement to an
> existing A100 voice? Would this allow a decent one-row configuration?
> 
> Joe
> 
> P.S. As far as EVERYONE's knowledge here in the group, I think
> that's what's unquestionable. I'm constantly amazed at the range of
> useful information shared by everyone here.
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > Hey Pig,
> >
> > I don't mind your having a wallow.  Yes, I've got the vocoder, and I
> use
> > and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled.  My most typical
> use
> > actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a sequenced
> or
> > LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out individual bands.
> > Vocoders have a ton of uses.  My comment that the patch Peter
> described
> > could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true -- what's a
> vocoder
> > after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has its own VCA.
> > The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output for all the
> > bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't really matter.
> > There must be patches for which it *would* matter to have individual
> > band outputs for separate processing, but for simple VCAing of bands
> > where they'd be going to the same destination, the vocoder does the
> > job.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an individual band output
> > helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the particular
> > example sounded like one that could be done without one.
> >
> >
> > As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I've got a black face EMS 2000 vocoder.  Nice toy.  I've been 
considering the A129, but have to kid myself into thinking I really 
need it.

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> Hey Pig,
> 
> I don't mind your having a wallow.  Yes, I've got the vocoder, and 
I use
> and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled.  My most typical 
use
> actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a sequenced 
or
> LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out individual 
bands. 
> Vocoders have a ton of uses.  My comment that the patch Peter 
described
> could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true -- what's a 
vocoder
> after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has its own 
VCA. 
> The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output for all the
> bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't really matter. 
> There must be patches for which it *would* matter to have individual
> band outputs for separate processing, but for simple VCAing of bands
> where they'd be going to the same destination, the vocoder does the
> job.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an individual band output
> helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the particular
> example sounded like one that could be done without one.
> 
> 
> As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.
> 
> code_pig wrote:
> > 
> > Hey Freak, unknown as you may be, do you happen to own a Doepfer
> > vocoder?  Okay, I'm having a bit of a dig (mind you though, in the
> > nicest possible way).
> > 
> > In all seriousness though, Peter's examples of how one can use
> > individual outputs of the A128 are spot on.  He's got a LOT of
> > knowledge... trust me on this one.
> > 
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "unknown freak" <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > (The patch involving the bandpass and fixed filterbank outs can 
be
> > > done with the vocoder.)

Joe,

The A146 has variable waveforms, instead of the fixed outputs found 
on the A145 and A147.


The A117 follows the pitch of a VCO, producing kind of a pitched 
noise, whereas the A118 is your standard noise.  Pitched noise can be 
a very useful thing when it is used to modulate things.

Regards,
Kevin


--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:
> Hi RM
> I have four rows of modules, so I was considering the 129/1 and 
129/2 
> and associated modules that would fit in a single 3U row.
> 
> So maybe 129/1, 129/2 and 3X 129/3 - 80U, there's a row. 
> 
> Or for adding vocal processing, maybe 129/1, 129/2, 129/3, 129/5, 
117, 
> 146, 192 (for recording the analysis CVs.)
> 
> Why is DNG recommended on the Doepfer web page? I already have an 
118, 

> would that be adequate for unvoiced?
> 
> Likewise the 146? I already have 2X 145 and 147?
> 
> Sorry I'm a bit ingnorant about vocoder stuff.
> 
> Joe

Last ignorant question (I hope): why are variable waveforms useful 
in a vocoder environment?

Joe

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> wrote:
> Joe,
> 
> The A146 has variable waveforms, instead of the fixed outputs found 
> on the A145 and A147.
> 
> 
> The A117 follows the pitch of a VCO, producing kind of a pitched 
> noise, whereas the A118 is your standard noise.  Pitched noise can 
be 

> a very useful thing when it is used to modulate things.
> 
> Regards,
> Kevin

hi joe, doepfer recommends the A117 because of the 808 sound source 
part has 2 sound sources which are harmonicaly rich and complex and 
the digital noise or you could use the A118's straight white and 
coloured noise which contains all the frequencies both flat and 
coloured with different spectrum shifts. 

what the A117 has is a tuned bank of sawtooth oscillators. the plus 
side is you have a harmonically rich source, the down side is you 
have no tuning available on the source.  you could always use an A121 
multimode filter to modify the source. but remember if you are using 
it as an unvoiced source, having the ability to tune the source is 
redundant. same goes with the digital noise. if you use an A147 lfo 
which is synced to the tempo of your track, you could use it to 
modulate the A117's digital noise and have a random synced source for 
your voiced or unvoiced input. you could also use an A115 divider as 
a real time modulator for the the A147's vc input. the best thing to 
do is to experiment, think outside of the box.

to really implement the vocoder to its maximum capabilities, you 
would need to have the A129-1/2, 3 A129/3, 3A129/4 and 1 A129/5. 

you will then need a compliment of modules for sources, modifiers and 
processors. you will need an A119 for input and envelope follower 
functions to bring an external source for the speech input. you will 
need an A117 and an A118 or both as a source for the unvoiced noise 
input. you will need at least 1 A110 or A111 for the voiced input. 
you will need a mixer to mix the vocoded output with the high out of 
the A129/1. you need at least one of each following to control the 
A129/4, 1 A147, 1 A132, 1 A148 and 1 A140.

if you wish to have more control, you can add the A191 & A192 to 
record, edit and playback your vocoded material. another suggestion 
would be to use the A129/3 slew-limiters after the A129/1 analysis 
section as manual controllers before the A192 for a rough realtime 
sketch for further editing in your pc sequencer. 

if you want to have a smooth transition between the voiced and 
unvoiced inputs, you will need 2 A170's or A171's if you wish to 
voltage control of the transitions, 2 A130's, 1 A165 and 1 A138 to do 
the job.

i have 2 portable A100 cases dedicated to external processing, here 
is the layout
                         case #1

top   A117, A148, A147, A171, A171, A132, ASo MX224, ASo MX61, A115
bot   A177, A119, A119, A129/1, A129/3, A129/3, power supply

                         case #2
top   A129/5, A129/4 ASo Mx224, 2 x A121, 2 x A125, 2xASy rs120, A134
bot   A129/3, A192, A191, A136, A136, ASy rs60, A138, power supply

i also change modules around when more of one needed than the other.i 
plan build next case to include 1 more A124, 2 A127, 2 ASy rs240 
frequency shifters, 2 ASy rs310, 2 A103 and 1 A174.

once the Analogue Systems VC delays arrive i plan on building a 
special 4 row case with 168 hp per row. i hope some this helps you in 
your quest for a vocoder.

regards,
RM 

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:
> Hi RM
> I have four rows of modules, so I was considering the 129/1 and 
129/2 
> and associated modules that would fit in a single 3U row.
> 
> So maybe 129/1, 129/2 and 3X 129/3 - 80U, there's a row. 
> 
> Or for adding vocal processing, maybe 129/1, 129/2, 129/3, 129/5, 
117, 
> 146, 192 (for recording the analysis CVs.)
> 
> Why is DNG recommended on the Doepfer web page? I already have an 
118, 
> would that be adequate for unvoiced?
> 
> Likewise the 146? I already have 2X 145 and 147?
> 
> Sorry I'm a bit ingnorant about vocoder stuff.
> 
> Joe
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > Joe,
> > 
> > I'm not quite sure I'm getting the gist of your terms "voice" and
> > "one-row configuration", but as for the vocoder I'd say you could 
> get by
> > for a lot of purposes just fine with just the analysis section 
and 
> the
> > synthesis section (A-129/1 and A-129/2).  If you're bringing in a
> > microphone, the A-129/5 is useful.  The A-129/3 takes you into a 
> realm
> > of being able to edit the voltages you're bringing into the 
> synthesis
> > section (three 129/3s -- the ideal full complement -- turns the 
> vocoder
> > into a filterbank; I've only got one), and the A-129/4 adds slew.
> > 
> > For most of my uses, I'm really only using the analysis and 
> synthesis
> > modules.  That certainly won't eat up a row.
> > 
> > But if by "one-row configuration" you mean a 3U row of modules as 
> the
> > extent of the instrument, I think the standard 3U configuration 
> offered
> > by Doepfer hits the mark with module choices for versatility, and
> > shoehorning in the vocoder would probably not be advisable 
there.  
> If
> > you just wanted a simple outboard vocoder you could probably pick 
up 
> an
> > Electrix WarpFactory for under $200 on eBay, and though not 
modular 
> it's
> > a pretty fun and good-sounding, especially for the price.  
Frankly 
> it
> > tempts me, too, for certain kinds of quick and easy 
> formant-capturing,
> > and it's stereo.
> > 
> > 
> > buechlerjoe wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hi UF
> > > 
> > > You've got me kind of interested. Jeez, I swore I was happy 
with 
> my
> > > A100 configuration, too :-)
> > > 
> > > What you recommend for a Vocoder configuration as a supplement 
to 
> an
> > > existing A100 voice? Would this allow a decent one-row 
> configuration?
> > > 
> > > Joe
> > > 
> > > P.S. As far as EVERYONE's knowledge here in the group, I think
> > > that's what's unquestionable. I'm constantly amazed at the 
range 
> of
> > > useful information shared by everyone here.
> > > 
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > > Hey Pig,
> > > >
> > > > I don't mind your having a wallow.  Yes, I've got the 
vocoder, 
> and I
> > > use
> > > > and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled.  My most 
> typical
> > > use
> > > > actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a 
> sequenced
> > > or
> > > > LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out individual 
> bands.
> > > > Vocoders have a ton of uses.  My comment that the patch Peter
> > > described
> > > > could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true -- what's 
a
> > > vocoder
> > > > after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has its 
own 
> VCA.
> > > > The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output for 
all 
> the
> > > > bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't really 
> matter.
> > > > There must be patches for which it *would* matter to have 
> individual
> > > > band outputs for separate processing, but for simple VCAing 
of 
> bands
> > > > where they'd be going to the same destination, the vocoder 
does 

> the
> > > > job.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an individual band 
> output
> > > > helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the 
> particular
> > > > example sounded like one that could be done without one.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Okay, it sounds like I could skip the slew stuff and put together a 
vocoder in a single row supplemented with my existing modules. Or, 
I could get a 6U frame and put together a full-up vocoder with 3 
129/3s.

I've got a couple more questions:

I thought the 129/4 could control three 129/3s. Why is 3 X 129/4 
suggested?

I still don't grok how the variable waveform capability of the 146 is 
used with a vocoder, but I suppose it would become clear if I actually 
tried it.

The 129/1/2 documentation talks about a "special" 191 that has three 
additional CV outs, instead of the midi-sync LFO, to give enough CV 
outs for the 129/2. So if I wanted midi in/out for the vocoder, I'd 
have to get ANOTHER 191?

Does anyone know about this "special" 191? I've never seen one 
anywhere. It would be kind of slick, I could also use my Regelwerk as 
a graphic EQ with the 129/2.

I suppose I could just get a second stock 191 and use it on a 
different channel, but then I'd have to remap the 129/1 outputs going 
out through a 192 to get it to work on playback.

Joe
--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> You are indeed an intense vocoding wildman.  I should point out that
> someone newly experimenting with vocoding could get 80% of the way 
there
> with the analysis and synthesis modules and a preamp and something
> feeding the instrument input -- richest choice obviously being 
sawtooth
> waves.  All right, perhaps also the voiced/unvoiced detector. 
> Everything else builds from that.  I also believe that for simple
> vocoding, there are cheaper routes -- the real beauty of Doepfer's
> version is its complete open-endedness.  Frankly, it can actually 
sound
> a little dirty, not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
> 
> And now, senseless rambling about cases and aesthetics:  I *love* 
the
> idea of a 4-row 168-hp case.  I've got 9 84-hp rows in a couple of
> Raxxess racks, which is fine but inelegant.  Then again, when you 
start
> patching up those closely-space Doepfer modules with skinny
> technicolored patchcords the look becomes inelegant pretty fast 
anyway. 
> The Doepfer is a kickass modular cleverly disguised as cheap lab
> equipment.  I really just care about the sound.  I like the looks of
> Analogue Systems' case, but it's so expensive.  Somehow 
Synthesizers.com
> manages to offer a great-looking slanted case for much, much less.  
I
> wish it fit Doepfer-size modules.  
> 
> If Synthesizers.com offered anywhere near the module catalog of 
Doepfer,
> I'd be severely tempted, both for ergonomics -- big knobs, large
> real-estate -- and jacks longevity.  I need to find some 
impoverished
> person surviving on beads of solder to do a massive banana-jack
> retrofit.  That would render the machine immortal.  I'd never trust
> myself to do it.
> 
> 
> ringmod45 wrote:
> > 
> > hi joe, doepfer recommends the A117 because of the 808 sound 
source
> > part has 2 sound sources which are harmonicaly rich and complex 
and
> > the digital noise or you could use the A118's straight white and
> > coloured noise which contains all the frequencies both flat and
> > coloured with different spectrum shifts.
> > 
> > what the A117 has is a tuned bank of sawtooth oscillators. the 
plus
> > side is you have a harmonically rich source, the down side is you
> > have no tuning available on the source.  you could always use an 
A121
> > multimode filter to modify the source. but remember if you are 
using
> > it as an unvoiced source, having the ability to tune the source is
> > redundant. same goes with the digital noise. if you use an A147 
lfo
> > which is synced to the tempo of your track, you could use it to
> > modulate the A117's digital noise and have a random synced source 
for
> > your voiced or unvoiced input. you could also use an A115 divider 
as
> > a real time modulator for the the A147's vc input. the best thing 
to
> > do is to experiment, think outside of the box.
> > 
> > to really implement the vocoder to its maximum capabilities, you
> > would need to have the A129-1/2, 3 A129/3, 3A129/4 and 1 A129/5.
> > 
> > you will then need a compliment of modules for sources, modifiers 
and
> > processors. you will need an A119 for input and envelope follower
> > functions to bring an external source for the speech input. you 
will
> > need an A117 and an A118 or both as a source for the unvoiced 
noise
> > input. you will need at least 1 A110 or A111 for the voiced input.
> > you will need a mixer to mix the vocoded output with the high out 
of
> > the A129/1. you need at least one of each following to control the
> > A129/4, 1 A147, 1 A132, 1 A148 and 1 A140.
> > 
> > if you wish to have more control, you can add the A191 & A192 to
> > record, edit and playback your vocoded material. another 
suggestion
> > would be to use the A129/3 slew-limiters after the A129/1 analysis
> > section as manual controllers before the A192 for a rough realtime
> > sketch for further editing in your pc sequencer.
> > 
> > if you want to have a smooth transition between the voiced and
> > unvoiced inputs, you will need 2 A170's or A171's if you wish to
> > voltage control of the transitions, 2 A130's, 1 A165 and 1 A138 to 
do
> > the job.
> > 
> > i have 2 portable A100 cases dedicated to external processing, 
here
> > is the layout
> >                          case #1
> > 
> > top   A117, A148, A147, A171, A171, A132, ASo MX224, ASo MX61, 
A115
> > bot   A177, A119, A119, A129/1, A129/3, A129/3, power supply
> > 
> >                          case #2
> > top   A129/5, A129/4 ASo Mx224, 2 x A121, 2 x A125, 2xASy rs120, 
A134
> > bot   A129/3, A192, A191, A136, A136, ASy rs60, A138, power supply
> > 
> > i also change modules around when more of one needed than the 
other.i
> > plan build next case to include 1 more A124, 2 A127, 2 ASy rs240
> > frequency shifters, 2 ASy rs310, 2 A103 and 1 A174.
> > 
> > once the Analogue Systems VC delays arrive i plan on building a
> > special 4 row case with 168 hp per row. i hope some this helps you 
in
> > your quest for a vocoder.
> > 
> > regards,
> > RM
> > 
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:
> > > Hi RM
> > > I have four rows of modules, so I was considering the 129/1 and
> > 129/2
> > > and associated modules that would fit in a single 3U row.
> > >
> > > So maybe 129/1, 129/2 and 3X 129/3 - 80U, there's a row.
> > >
> > > Or for adding vocal processing, maybe 129/1, 129/2, 129/3, 
129/5,
> > 117,
> > > 146, 192 (for recording the analysis CVs.)
> > >
> > > Why is DNG recommended on the Doepfer web page? I already have 
an
> > 118,
> > > would that be adequate for unvoiced?
> > >
> > > Likewise the 146? I already have 2X 145 and 147?
> > >
> > > Sorry I'm a bit ingnorant about vocoder stuff.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > > Joe,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not quite sure I'm getting the gist of your terms "voice" 
and
> > > > "one-row configuration", but as for the vocoder I'd say you 
could
> > > get by
> > > > for a lot of purposes just fine with just the analysis section
> > and
> > > the
> > > > synthesis section (A-129/1 and A-129/2).  If you're bringing 
in a
> > > > microphone, the A-129/5 is useful.  The A-129/3 takes you into 
a
> > > realm
> > > > of being able to edit the voltages you're bringing into the
> > > synthesis
> > > > section (three 129/3s -- the ideal full complement -- turns 
the
> > > vocoder
> > > > into a filterbank; I've only got one), and the A-129/4 adds 
slew.
> > > >
> > > > For most of my uses, I'm really only using the analysis and
> > > synthesis
> > > > modules.  That certainly won't eat up a row.
> > > >
> > > > But if by "one-row configuration" you mean a 3U row of modules 
as
> > > the
> > > > extent of the instrument, I think the standard 3U 
configuration
> > > offered
> > > > by Doepfer hits the mark with module choices for versatility, 
and
> > > > shoehorning in the vocoder would probably not be advisable
> > there.
> > > If
> > > > you just wanted a simple outboard vocoder you could probably 
pick
> > up
> > > an
> > > > Electrix WarpFactory for under $200 on eBay, and though not
> > modular
> > > it's
> > > > a pretty fun and good-sounding, especially for the price.
> > Frankly
> > > it
> > > > tempts me, too, for certain kinds of quick and easy
> > > formant-capturing,
> > > > and it's stereo.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > buechlerjoe wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi UF
> > > > >
> > > > > You've got me kind of interested. Jeez, I swore I was happy
> > with
> > > my
> > > > > A100 configuration, too :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > What you recommend for a Vocoder configuration as a 
supplement
> > to
> > > an
> > > > > existing A100 voice? Would this allow a decent one-row
> > > configuration?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. As far as EVERYONE's knowledge here in the group, I 
think
> > > > > that's what's unquestionable. I'm constantly amazed at the
> > range
> > > of
> > > > > useful information shared by everyone here.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> 
wrote:
> > > > > > Hey Pig,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't mind your having a wallow.  Yes, I've got the
> > vocoder,
> > > and I
> > > > > use
> > > > > > and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled.  My most
> > > typical
> > > > > use
> > > > > > actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a
> > > sequenced
> > > > > or
> > > > > > LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out 
individual
> > > bands.
> > > > > > Vocoders have a ton of uses.  My comment that the patch 
Peter
> > > > > described
> > > > > > could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true -- 
what's
> > a
> > > > > vocoder
> > > > > > after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has 
its
> > own
> > > VCA.
> > > > > > The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output 
for
> > all
> > > the
> > > > > > bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't 
really
> > > matter.
> > > > > > There must be patches for which it *would* matter to have
> > > individual
> > > > > > band outputs for separate processing, but for simple 
VCAing
> > of
> > > bands
> > > > > > where they'd be going to the same destination, the vocoder
> > does
> > > the
> > > > > > job.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an individual 
band
> > > output
> > > > > > helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the
> > > particular
> > > > > > example sounded like one that could be done without one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

You are indeed an intense vocoding wildman.  I should point out that
someone newly experimenting with vocoding could get 80% of the way there
with the analysis and synthesis modules and a preamp and something
feeding the instrument input -- richest choice obviously being sawtooth
waves.  All right, perhaps also the voiced/unvoiced detector. 
Everything else builds from that.  I also believe that for simple
vocoding, there are cheaper routes -- the real beauty of Doepfer's
version is its complete open-endedness.  Frankly, it can actually sound
a little dirty, not that that's necessarily a bad thing.

And now, senseless rambling about cases and aesthetics:  I *love* the
idea of a 4-row 168-hp case.  I've got 9 84-hp rows in a couple of
Raxxess racks, which is fine but inelegant.  Then again, when you start
patching up those closely-space Doepfer modules with skinny
technicolored patchcords the look becomes inelegant pretty fast anyway. 
The Doepfer is a kickass modular cleverly disguised as cheap lab
equipment.  I really just care about the sound.  I like the looks of
Analogue Systems' case, but it's so expensive.  Somehow Synthesizers.com
manages to offer a great-looking slanted case for much, much less.  I
wish it fit Doepfer-size modules.  

If Synthesizers.com offered anywhere near the module catalog of Doepfer,
I'd be severely tempted, both for ergonomics -- big knobs, large
real-estate -- and jacks longevity.  I need to find some impoverished
person surviving on beads of solder to do a massive banana-jack
retrofit.  That would render the machine immortal.  I'd never trust
myself to do it.


ringmod45 wrote:

> 
> hi joe, doepfer recommends the A117 because of the 808 sound source
> part has 2 sound sources which are harmonicaly rich and complex and
> the digital noise or you could use the A118's straight white and
> coloured noise which contains all the frequencies both flat and
> coloured with different spectrum shifts.
> 
> what the A117 has is a tuned bank of sawtooth oscillators. the plus
> side is you have a harmonically rich source, the down side is you
> have no tuning available on the source.  you could always use an A121
> multimode filter to modify the source. but remember if you are using
> it as an unvoiced source, having the ability to tune the source is
> redundant. same goes with the digital noise. if you use an A147 lfo
> which is synced to the tempo of your track, you could use it to
> modulate the A117's digital noise and have a random synced source for
> your voiced or unvoiced input. you could also use an A115 divider as
> a real time modulator for the the A147's vc input. the best thing to
> do is to experiment, think outside of the box.
> 
> to really implement the vocoder to its maximum capabilities, you
> would need to have the A129-1/2, 3 A129/3, 3A129/4 and 1 A129/5.
> 
> you will then need a compliment of modules for sources, modifiers and
> processors. you will need an A119 for input and envelope follower
> functions to bring an external source for the speech input. you will
> need an A117 and an A118 or both as a source for the unvoiced noise
> input. you will need at least 1 A110 or A111 for the voiced input.
> you will need a mixer to mix the vocoded output with the high out of
> the A129/1. you need at least one of each following to control the
> A129/4, 1 A147, 1 A132, 1 A148 and 1 A140.
> 
> if you wish to have more control, you can add the A191 & A192 to
> record, edit and playback your vocoded material. another suggestion
> would be to use the A129/3 slew-limiters after the A129/1 analysis
> section as manual controllers before the A192 for a rough realtime
> sketch for further editing in your pc sequencer.
> 
> if you want to have a smooth transition between the voiced and
> unvoiced inputs, you will need 2 A170's or A171's if you wish to
> voltage control of the transitions, 2 A130's, 1 A165 and 1 A138 to do
> the job.
> 
> i have 2 portable A100 cases dedicated to external processing, here
> is the layout
>                          case #1
> 
> top   A117, A148, A147, A171, A171, A132, ASo MX224, ASo MX61, A115
> bot   A177, A119, A119, A129/1, A129/3, A129/3, power supply
> 
>                          case #2
> top   A129/5, A129/4 ASo Mx224, 2 x A121, 2 x A125, 2xASy rs120, A134
> bot   A129/3, A192, A191, A136, A136, ASy rs60, A138, power supply
> 
> i also change modules around when more of one needed than the other.i
> plan build next case to include 1 more A124, 2 A127, 2 ASy rs240
> frequency shifters, 2 ASy rs310, 2 A103 and 1 A174.
> 
> once the Analogue Systems VC delays arrive i plan on building a
> special 4 row case with 168 hp per row. i hope some this helps you in
> your quest for a vocoder.
> 
> regards,
> RM
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:
> > Hi RM
> > I have four rows of modules, so I was considering the 129/1 and
> 129/2
> > and associated modules that would fit in a single 3U row.
> >
> > So maybe 129/1, 129/2 and 3X 129/3 - 80U, there's a row.
> >
> > Or for adding vocal processing, maybe 129/1, 129/2, 129/3, 129/5,
> 117,
> > 146, 192 (for recording the analysis CVs.)
> >
> > Why is DNG recommended on the Doepfer web page? I already have an
> 118,
> > would that be adequate for unvoiced?
> >
> > Likewise the 146? I already have 2X 145 and 147?
> >
> > Sorry I'm a bit ingnorant about vocoder stuff.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > I'm not quite sure I'm getting the gist of your terms "voice" and
> > > "one-row configuration", but as for the vocoder I'd say you could
> > get by
> > > for a lot of purposes just fine with just the analysis section
> and
> > the
> > > synthesis section (A-129/1 and A-129/2).  If you're bringing in a
> > > microphone, the A-129/5 is useful.  The A-129/3 takes you into a
> > realm
> > > of being able to edit the voltages you're bringing into the
> > synthesis
> > > section (three 129/3s -- the ideal full complement -- turns the
> > vocoder
> > > into a filterbank; I've only got one), and the A-129/4 adds slew.
> > >
> > > For most of my uses, I'm really only using the analysis and
> > synthesis
> > > modules.  That certainly won't eat up a row.
> > >
> > > But if by "one-row configuration" you mean a 3U row of modules as
> > the
> > > extent of the instrument, I think the standard 3U configuration
> > offered
> > > by Doepfer hits the mark with module choices for versatility, and
> > > shoehorning in the vocoder would probably not be advisable
> there.
> > If
> > > you just wanted a simple outboard vocoder you could probably pick
> up
> > an
> > > Electrix WarpFactory for under $200 on eBay, and though not
> modular
> > it's
> > > a pretty fun and good-sounding, especially for the price.
> Frankly
> > it
> > > tempts me, too, for certain kinds of quick and easy
> > formant-capturing,
> > > and it's stereo.
> > >
> > >
> > > buechlerjoe wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi UF
> > > >
> > > > You've got me kind of interested. Jeez, I swore I was happy
> with
> > my
> > > > A100 configuration, too :-)
> > > >
> > > > What you recommend for a Vocoder configuration as a supplement
> to
> > an
> > > > existing A100 voice? Would this allow a decent one-row
> > configuration?
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > P.S. As far as EVERYONE's knowledge here in the group, I think
> > > > that's what's unquestionable. I'm constantly amazed at the
> range
> > of
> > > > useful information shared by everyone here.
> > > >
> > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > > > > Hey Pig,
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't mind your having a wallow.  Yes, I've got the
> vocoder,
> > and I
> > > > use
> > > > > and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled.  My most
> > typical
> > > > use
> > > > > actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a
> > sequenced
> > > > or
> > > > > LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out individual
> > bands.
> > > > > Vocoders have a ton of uses.  My comment that the patch Peter
> > > > described
> > > > > could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true -- what's
> a
> > > > vocoder
> > > > > after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has its
> own
> > VCA.
> > > > > The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output for
> all
> > the
> > > > > bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't really
> > matter.
> > > > > There must be patches for which it *would* matter to have
> > individual
> > > > > band outputs for separate processing, but for simple VCAing
> of
> > bands
> > > > > where they'd be going to the same destination, the vocoder
> does
> > the
> > > > > job.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an individual band
> > output
> > > > > helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the
> > particular
> > > > > example sounded like one that could be done without one.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:
> Okay, it sounds like I could skip the slew stuff and put together a 
> vocoder in a single row supplemented with my existing modules. Or, 
> I could get a 6U frame and put together a full-up vocoder with 3 
> 129/3s.

hi joe, go for the 6U and make it portable if you can, that way you 
can always take it with you to a gig or session. plus you'll kick 
yourself in the teeth when you may want to expand it and have to buy 
another case.

> 
> I've got a couple more questions:
> 
> I thought the 129/4 could control three 129/3s. Why is 3 X 129/4 
> suggested?

the A129/4 can control either 1, 2 or 3 A129/3 slew-limiters. it all 
depends on the sound texture you wish to have. you could use 1 slew 
controller for 3 slew -limiters to have a homogenous  slew of all the 
bands or you could do combinations with 1, 2, or 3 slew controllers 
to animate the process further, i.e you 1 slew controller doing the 
lower and higher bands and a second slew controller for the middle 
bands to make the slew slower or faster than the other bands for 
accenting or any combination there of between the slew limiters and 
slew controllers.

 now if you mismatch the bands from the analysis section to the 
synthesis section and apply the above process you get different 
results. again experimentation is the key. it is important that the 
material analyzed is devoid of noise, distortion etc. and is as clean 
and clear as possible once you start doing your vocoding, unless you 
are looking for that effect. a little compression on before the input 
also affects the analysis, try it out and see what is agreeable to 
your ear or the track you making.

> 
> I still don't grok how the variable waveform capability of the 146 
is 
> used with a vocoder, but I suppose it would become clear if I 
actually 
> tried it.

think of it as PWM, except you are changing the harmonic distribution 
of the triangle by manually changing the wave from rising sawtooth to 
descending sawtooth. when is it rising it feels like the attack of an 
EG and drops to its start point. when is it is descending it starts 
at the top and decays like an EG and starts at the top again.

my sugestion to Doepfer would to emcompass all of the functions of 
the A145, A146 and A147 and put them into one module with a gate 
delay instead of having all these lfo's with different functions. one 
obvious improvement to the A146 would be to have voltage control of 
the waveform shape. it is impossible to do so right now with the 
current lfo's. maybe we should have a poll to ask Doepfer to make 
such a module. or make a double lfo with all of the above functions 
and have a switch to put them in a quadrature relationship to each 
other and have a pot to control the time and a vc input.

> 
> The 129/1/2 documentation talks about a "special" 191 that has 
three 
> additional CV outs, instead of the midi-sync LFO, to give enough CV 
> outs for the 129/2. So if I wanted midi in/out for the vocoder, I'd 
> have to get ANOTHER 191?

yes, that is correct.

regards,
RM



> 
> Does anyone know about this "special" 191? I've never seen one 
> anywhere. It would be kind of slick, I could also use my Regelwerk 
as 
> a graphic EQ with the 129/2.
> 
> I suppose I could just get a second stock 191 and use it on a 
> different channel, but then I'd have to remap the 129/1 outputs 
going 
> out through a 192 to get it to work on playback.
> 
> Joe
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > You are indeed an intense vocoding wildman.  I should point out 
that
> > someone newly experimenting with vocoding could get 80% of the 
way 
> there
> > with the analysis and synthesis modules and a preamp and something
> > feeding the instrument input -- richest choice obviously being 
> sawtooth
> > waves.  All right, perhaps also the voiced/unvoiced detector. 
> > Everything else builds from that.  I also believe that for simple
> > vocoding, there are cheaper routes -- the real beauty of Doepfer's
> > version is its complete open-endedness.  Frankly, it can actually 
> sound
> > a little dirty, not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
> > 
> > And now, senseless rambling about cases and aesthetics:  I *love* 
> the
> > idea of a 4-row 168-hp case.  I've got 9 84-hp rows in a couple of
> > Raxxess racks, which is fine but inelegant.  Then again, when you 
> start
> > patching up those closely-space Doepfer modules with skinny
> > technicolored patchcords the look becomes inelegant pretty fast 
> anyway. 
> > The Doepfer is a kickass modular cleverly disguised as cheap lab
> > equipment.  I really just care about the sound.  I like the looks 
of
> > Analogue Systems' case, but it's so expensive.  Somehow 
> Synthesizers.com
> > manages to offer a great-looking slanted case for much, much 
less.  
> I
> > wish it fit Doepfer-size modules.  
> > 
> > If Synthesizers.com offered anywhere near the module catalog of 
> Doepfer,
> > I'd be severely tempted, both for ergonomics -- big knobs, large
> > real-estate -- and jacks longevity.  I need to find some 
> impoverished
> > person surviving on beads of solder to do a massive banana-jack
> > retrofit.  That would render the machine immortal.  I'd never 
trust
> > myself to do it.
> > 
> > 
> > ringmod45 wrote:
> > > 
> > > hi joe, doepfer recommends the A117 because of the 808 sound 
> source
> > > part has 2 sound sources which are harmonicaly rich and complex 
> and
> > > the digital noise or you could use the A118's straight white and
> > > coloured noise which contains all the frequencies both flat and
> > > coloured with different spectrum shifts.
> > > 
> > > what the A117 has is a tuned bank of sawtooth oscillators. the 
> plus
> > > side is you have a harmonically rich source, the down side is 
you
> > > have no tuning available on the source.  you could always use 
an 
> A121
> > > multimode filter to modify the source. but remember if you are 
> using
> > > it as an unvoiced source, having the ability to tune the source 
is
> > > redundant. same goes with the digital noise. if you use an A147 
> lfo
> > > which is synced to the tempo of your track, you could use it to
> > > modulate the A117's digital noise and have a random synced 
source 
> for
> > > your voiced or unvoiced input. you could also use an A115 
divider 
> as
> > > a real time modulator for the the A147's vc input. the best 
thing 
> to
> > > do is to experiment, think outside of the box.
> > > 
> > > to really implement the vocoder to its maximum capabilities, you
> > > would need to have the A129-1/2, 3 A129/3, 3A129/4 and 1 A129/5.
> > > 
> > > you will then need a compliment of modules for sources, 
modifiers 
> and
> > > processors. you will need an A119 for input and envelope 
follower
> > > functions to bring an external source for the speech input. you 
> will
> > > need an A117 and an A118 or both as a source for the unvoiced 
> noise
> > > input. you will need at least 1 A110 or A111 for the voiced 
input.
> > > you will need a mixer to mix the vocoded output with the high 
out 
> of
> > > the A129/1. you need at least one of each following to control 
the
> > > A129/4, 1 A147, 1 A132, 1 A148 and 1 A140.
> > > 
> > > if you wish to have more control, you can add the A191 & A192 to
> > > record, edit and playback your vocoded material. another 
> suggestion
> > > would be to use the A129/3 slew-limiters after the A129/1 
analysis
> > > section as manual controllers before the A192 for a rough 
realtime
> > > sketch for further editing in your pc sequencer.
> > > 
> > > if you want to have a smooth transition between the voiced and
> > > unvoiced inputs, you will need 2 A170's or A171's if you wish to
> > > voltage control of the transitions, 2 A130's, 1 A165 and 1 A138 
to 
> do
> > > the job.
> > > 
> > > i have 2 portable A100 cases dedicated to external processing, 
> here
> > > is the layout
> > >                          case #1
> > > 
> > > top   A117, A148, A147, A171, A171, A132, ASo MX224, ASo MX61, 
> A115
> > > bot   A177, A119, A119, A129/1, A129/3, A129/3, power supply
> > > 
> > >                          case #2
> > > top   A129/5, A129/4 ASo Mx224, 2 x A121, 2 x A125, 2xASy 
rs120, 
> A134
> > > bot   A129/3, A192, A191, A136, A136, ASy rs60, A138, power 
supply
> > > 
> > > i also change modules around when more of one needed than the 
> other.i
> > > plan build next case to include 1 more A124, 2 A127, 2 ASy rs240
> > > frequency shifters, 2 ASy rs310, 2 A103 and 1 A174.
> > > 
> > > once the Analogue Systems VC delays arrive i plan on building a
> > > special 4 row case with 168 hp per row. i hope some this helps 
you 
> in
> > > your quest for a vocoder.
> > > 
> > > regards,
> > > RM
> > > 
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> 
wrote:
> > > > Hi RM
> > > > I have four rows of modules, so I was considering the 129/1 
and
> > > 129/2
> > > > and associated modules that would fit in a single 3U row.
> > > >
> > > > So maybe 129/1, 129/2 and 3X 129/3 - 80U, there's a row.
> > > >
> > > > Or for adding vocal processing, maybe 129/1, 129/2, 129/3, 
> 129/5,
> > > 117,
> > > > 146, 192 (for recording the analysis CVs.)
> > > >
> > > > Why is DNG recommended on the Doepfer web page? I already 
have 
> an
> > > 118,
> > > > would that be adequate for unvoiced?
> > > >
> > > > Likewise the 146? I already have 2X 145 and 147?
> > > >
> > > > Sorry I'm a bit ingnorant about vocoder stuff.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> 
wrote:
> > > > > Joe,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not quite sure I'm getting the gist of your 
terms "voice" 
> and
> > > > > "one-row configuration", but as for the vocoder I'd say you 
> could
> > > > get by
> > > > > for a lot of purposes just fine with just the analysis 
section
> > > and
> > > > the
> > > > > synthesis section (A-129/1 and A-129/2).  If you're 
bringing 
> in a
> > > > > microphone, the A-129/5 is useful.  The A-129/3 takes you 
into 
> a
> > > > realm
> > > > > of being able to edit the voltages you're bringing into the
> > > > synthesis
> > > > > section (three 129/3s -- the ideal full complement -- turns 
> the
> > > > vocoder
> > > > > into a filterbank; I've only got one), and the A-129/4 adds 
> slew.
> > > > >
> > > > > For most of my uses, I'm really only using the analysis and
> > > > synthesis
> > > > > modules.  That certainly won't eat up a row.
> > > > >
> > > > > But if by "one-row configuration" you mean a 3U row of 
modules 
> as
> > > > the
> > > > > extent of the instrument, I think the standard 3U 
> configuration
> > > > offered
> > > > > by Doepfer hits the mark with module choices for 
versatility, 
> and
> > > > > shoehorning in the vocoder would probably not be advisable
> > > there.
> > > > If
> > > > > you just wanted a simple outboard vocoder you could 
probably 
> pick
> > > up
> > > > an
> > > > > Electrix WarpFactory for under $200 on eBay, and though not
> > > modular
> > > > it's
> > > > > a pretty fun and good-sounding, especially for the price.
> > > Frankly
> > > > it
> > > > > tempts me, too, for certain kinds of quick and easy
> > > > formant-capturing,
> > > > > and it's stereo.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > buechlerjoe wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi UF
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You've got me kind of interested. Jeez, I swore I was 
happy
> > > with
> > > > my
> > > > > > A100 configuration, too :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What you recommend for a Vocoder configuration as a 
> supplement
> > > to
> > > > an
> > > > > > existing A100 voice? Would this allow a decent one-row
> > > > configuration?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. As far as EVERYONE's knowledge here in the group, I 
> think
> > > > > > that's what's unquestionable. I'm constantly amazed at the
> > > range
> > > > of
> > > > > > useful information shared by everyone here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> 
> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hey Pig,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't mind your having a wallow.  Yes, I've got the
> > > vocoder,
> > > > and I
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled.  My 
most
> > > > typical
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a
> > > > sequenced
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out 
> individual
> > > > bands.
> > > > > > > Vocoders have a ton of uses.  My comment that the patch 
> Peter
> > > > > > described
> > > > > > > could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true -- 
> what's
> > > a
> > > > > > vocoder
> > > > > > > after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has 
> its
> > > own
> > > > VCA.
> > > > > > > The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output 
> for
> > > all
> > > > the
> > > > > > > bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't 
> really
> > > > matter.
> > > > > > > There must be patches for which it *would* matter to 
have
> > > > individual
> > > > > > > band outputs for separate processing, but for simple 
> VCAing
> > > of
> > > > bands
> > > > > > > where they'd be going to the same destination, the 
vocoder
> > > does
> > > > the
> > > > > > > job.  That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an 
individual 

> band
> > > > output
> > > > > > > helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the
> > > > particular
> > > > > > > example sounded like one that could be done without one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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