Doepfer

So let me get this straight: The thread you refer to is about a guy who buys a 
Zeus DIY power supply from TipTop Audio which he can't use because he has no 
idea how to DIY (using DIY very loosely here). Instead of acklowdging the limits 
of his abilities and buying a finished ZEUS he goes into a long rant, 
culminating in the gem that 'Dieter doesn't care' - Dieter of course having 
nothing to do whatsoever with TipTop Audio.

Perusing the second thread on Muffwiggler there appears to be indded a problem 
with power drain when using lots of digital modules on the same rail. I think 
it's pretty clear that the solution is not to scrap the original standard, as 
that would wreak havoc with legacy systems but for the people who need it to use 
a power supply with a separate 5V and enough ampage to satisfy their needs. And, 
hey presto! such a thing already exists, namely the above mentioned Zeus.

But noooo, you get all hot and bothered inside and take it upon yourself to 
right this unspeakable evil, starting a crusade against the 'dark force'. To top 
it off you compare your petulant whining to the resistance against a dictatorial 
regime.

'Wir sind das Volk'? Really? As if Dopefer were killing and torturing people who 
don't obey. 


Pathetic. 




________________________________
From: "sonicwarrior@gmx.de" <sonicwarrior@gmx.de>
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 5:45:46
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Request for a +5V/+12V/-12V power supply in the 
standard housings

  
Hi,

the chicken/egg problem is discussed at Muffwiggler's, too. I'll just quote 
daverj from the 'some frustration w/ Zeus and POWER' thread:
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=327649#327649

<quote>
The 5 volt power issue being talked about in a couple of other threads is more 
about planning for the future, and maybe changing things for the better. The 
current state of affairs with 5 volts is in a "chicken or the egg" state. 


1 - manufactures who design a module that could use lots of 5 volts, only 
sometimes use the 5 volt bus because the cases today typically have no 5 volts 
or a limited amount of it. 


2 - the case manufacturers don't add large 5 volt supplies because the majority 
of modules don't use the 5 volt bus. 


3 - loop back to #1 

The 5 volt thread is trying to convince people to break the above cycle by 
making large 5 volt supplies standard so that module designers will start using 
the bus more.
</quote>

Btw. the ZEUS power supply from Tip Top Audio already has a dedicated +5V power 
supply, see:
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23105

The module manufacturers won't change anything until there is a broad on-board 
supply for +5V which means that Doepfer as the Eurorack grandfather has to step 
in or nothing will ever change.

I myself will stop buying any housing until there is a +5V supply in there.
I will also not buy any module with an on-board +5V regulator which draws 
current from the +12V rail without the option of using the +5V rail instead. 
That concretely means I won't buy the A-187-1 and A-189-1 which are on my want 
list until then.

Wir sind das Volk!

Greetings
Joachim

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 19:38:51 -0800
> Von: James Husted <james.husted@mac.com>
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Request for a +5V/+12V/-12V power supply in the 
>standard housings

> As far as I know there is only one module in the Doepfer lineup that
> requires a separate +5V supply and that is the MIDI>CV converter. Of all the
> manufacturers out there I think that Analogue Solutions and Analog Systems are
> the only companies in the eurorack format that require a separate +5v
> signal - all the digital modules I know of convert the +12V to +5 on the 
module
> so the "not supporting the +5V rail" is a industry trend and not just
> something Doepfer is doing. What Digital modules out there would use this
> separate +5V line if there was one? Is the Digital ground>Analog ground a real
> problem on the modules that do convert it onboard. I assume it is isolated
> on them. I think the major problem is that the digital modules that do
> convert the +12v make an extra load for that side of the supply. More should
> convert from the -12v supply to balance it out. There are very few modules
> that even offer an option to choose to use the +5v supply bus - IIRC Scott
> Harvestman said he once offered a jumper option on one of his modules and
> nobody used it so he discontinued it. Until the module makers all convert over
> to using the +5v bus there is no reason to burden the rest of the
> non-digital users with the expense of a separate supply.
> -James
> 
> **Disclaimer** As you can see from my sig I design for Synthwerks and have
> to disclose that we make a module (the PC5V) that converts the +12v supply
> to +5v and pipes it to the bus (and front panel with a level control. I
> have to admit it is not a big seller for these reasons. There seems to be a
> lot of modules that require it.
> 
> 
> James Husted
> Designer, Synthwerks LLC
> www.synthwerks.com
> james@synthwerks.com
> synthwerks@me.com
> 
> 
> On Nov 9, 2010, at 1:31 PM, Joachim wrote:
> 
> > Hello there,
> > 
> > there is currently a lot of talk going on about Doepfer not supporting
> > the +5V rail with the standard housings. Here is the thread:
> > http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24399
> > 
> > Short summary:
> > 
> > a. There is definitely a demand that the power supply in the standard 
> > housings supports +5V
> > b. +5V is used for digital modules and therefore should have a separate 
> > digital ground on the whole way (module => cable => bus board => power 
> > supply) to avoid digital noise coming over the common ground.
> > 
> > Necessary steps:
> > 
> > For a:
> > 1. Using either tri output power supplies like the ready-made Meanwell 
> > T-60C or an additional 5V power supply, e.g. the Meanwell S-25-5 with 
> > 5,0A of +5V. Meanwell is just an example, there are several other 
> > manufacturers like Power One and a current transformer with 
> > +5V/+12V/-12V outputs could be used, too, of course.
> > 
> > For b:
> > 2. Change the specification for the power connection so that one of the 
> > three ground lines is reserved for the digital ground while the other 
> > two remain for the analog ground. It would still be compatible to the
> > old specification with the downside of more noise which is what happens
> > at the moment anyway when the +5V is taken from the +12V rail without a
> > separate digital ground.
> > 3. Change the bus boards to implement the separate digital ground.
> > 4. Change the existing +5V modules to make use of the separate digital 
> > ground.
> > 
> > While we are at the subject of a bus board change: There is a big demand
> > for keyed connectors, too. They would help to avoid wrong connections 
> > for modules which use the specification, force the manufactures who are 
> > ignoring the key position specification to support it and help to 
> > connect the modules which is currently a pain in the a**.
> > I myself would gladly pay the slightly higher price for keyed connector 
> > bus boards.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > Joachim
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

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