Doepfer

Thanks for the examples, Ingo.
Here's a strange question for you (and Dieter, if has some thoughts about
it): how does one determine which bbd (which number of stages) to purchase,
without hearing and trying each one? Is it possible to describe the sound
and behavior of each bbd succinctly? The two I tried at Musikmesse clearly
sounded different from each other, though I can't remember which they
were...

ginorobair


On 4/24/06 2:27 PM, "Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com"
<Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>scribbled:

>    From: "selfoscillate" <synaptic_music@yahoo.com>
> Subject: bbd examples for 128 stages
> 
> hello all,
> 
> here are some more a188/1 bbd prototype examples,
> this time using an 128 stages ic (mn3006).

On 4/24/06 2:35 PM, "Robair, Gino" <grobair@prismb2b.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the examples, Ingo.
> Here's a strange question for you (and Dieter, if has some thoughts about
> it): how does one determine which bbd (which number of stages) to purchase,
> without hearing and trying each one? Is it possible to describe the sound
> and behavior of each bbd succinctly? The two I tried at Musikmesse clearly
> sounded different from each other, though I can't remember which they
> were...

i'd really love a model with maybe 4 different chips( i know this was voted
down with good intentions/reasons) but with 4 or more chips and the ability
to pick which is used OR use any or all that seems ideal in some ways, i
know there are downsides, but i'd love to hear the multiple chips together
in series or parallel in the same circuit.

best,
phil

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ph@..." <ph@...> wrote:
>
> On 4/24/06 2:35 PM, "Robair, Gino" <grobair@...> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the examples, Ingo.
> > Here's a strange question for you (and Dieter, if has some 
thoughts about
> > it): how does one determine which bbd (which number of stages) to 
purchase,
> > without hearing and trying each one? Is it possible to describe 
the sound
> > and behavior of each bbd succinctly? The two I tried at 
Musikmesse clearly
> > sounded different from each other, though I can't remember which 
they
> > were...
> 
> i'd really love a model with maybe 4 different chips( i know this 
was voted
> down with good intentions/reasons) but with 4 or more chips and the 
ability
> to pick which is used OR use any or all that seems ideal in some 
ways, i
> know there are downsides, but i'd love to hear the multiple chips 
together
> in series or parallel in the same circuit.
> 
> best,
> phil
>


hello phil,

well, i suggested a version with two bbd's in the beginning,
but it wasn't a good idea. believe me, as soon as you have
more bbd's, you want a separate clock for each of them.
it's a bit of a waste of resources to have four ic's
without the possibility to use them separately.

best wishes

ingo

hello gino,

as dieter said, it's difficult to explain.
as soon as you dial in large amounts of feedback,
the smaller bbd's have advantages soundwise, because
their resonance sounds cleaner (less distortion).
on the other hand the bigger bbd's are more versatile
because of the longer delay times.
so there is no "best choice" without considering the
wanted application. if you want all effects, you will
have to buy more than one version (a small and a large one?).
the best allrounder is probably the 1024 stages version,
but i can only speak for myself here.

best wishes

ingo


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@...> 
wrote:
>
> Gino,
> 
> it's hard to explain the differences - aside from those which are 
obvious
> (longer delay times with longer BBDs). And this is why Ingo made 
the sound
> examples and I really thank him for this as I would not have the 
time.
> 
> In general shorter BBDs are better if you prefer to emphasize the 
higher
> frequencies of the effect signal (e.g. flanging effect with or 
without
> feedback that affects mainly higher frequencies, or Karplus Strong 
with
> higher notes). But it's not only the frequency or the delay time. 
Even the
> resonance/feedback behaviour is different for different BBD 
circuits. It's
> hard to explain. As the BBD circuits are not very expensive (except 
the 4096
> type MN3005) you could order one module A-188-1 together with some 
BBD
> circuits as spare parts and find out which BBD type you prefer. But 
you
> should wait for the revised version of the module that allows to 
use nearly
> all BBD circuits of the MN3xxx series (except those with another 
basic BBD
> structure, like the MN3010, MN3011, MN3210 or MN3214).
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
> 
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von Robair, Gino
> > Gesendet: Montag, 24. April 2006 23:35
> > An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] BBD question: which one?
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the examples, Ingo.
> > Here's a strange question for you (and Dieter, if has some 
thoughts about
> > it): how does one determine which bbd (which number of stages) to
> > purchase,
> > without hearing and trying each one? Is it possible to describe 
the sound
> > and behavior of each bbd succinctly? The two I tried at 
Musikmesse clearly
> > sounded different from each other, though I can't remember which 
they

> > were...
> >
> > ginorobair
> >
> >
> > On 4/24/06 2:27 PM, "Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com"
> > <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>scribbled:
> >
> > >    From: "selfoscillate" <synaptic_music@...>
> > > Subject: bbd examples for 128 stages
> > >
> > > hello all,
> > >
> > > here are some more a188/1 bbd prototype examples,
> > > this time using an 128 stages ic (mn3006).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Gino,

it's hard to explain the differences - aside from those which are obvious
(longer delay times with longer BBDs). And this is why Ingo made the sound
examples and I really thank him for this as I would not have the time.

In general shorter BBDs are better if you prefer to emphasize the higher
frequencies of the effect signal (e.g. flanging effect with or without
feedback that affects mainly higher frequencies, or Karplus Strong with
higher notes). But it's not only the frequency or the delay time. Even the
resonance/feedback behaviour is different for different BBD circuits. It's
hard to explain. As the BBD circuits are not very expensive (except the 4096
type MN3005) you could order one module A-188-1 together with some BBD
circuits as spare parts and find out which BBD type you prefer. But you
should wait for the revised version of the module that allows to use nearly
all BBD circuits of the MN3xxx series (except those with another basic BBD
structure, like the MN3010, MN3011, MN3210 or MN3214).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von Robair, Gino
> Gesendet: Montag, 24. April 2006 23:35
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] BBD question: which one?
>
>
> Thanks for the examples, Ingo.
> Here's a strange question for you (and Dieter, if has some thoughts about
> it): how does one determine which bbd (which number of stages) to
> purchase,
> without hearing and trying each one? Is it possible to describe the sound
> and behavior of each bbd succinctly? The two I tried at Musikmesse clearly
> sounded different from each other, though I can't remember which they
> were...
>
> ginorobair
>
>
> On 4/24/06 2:27 PM, "Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com"
> <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>scribbled:
>
> >    From: "selfoscillate" <synaptic_music@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: bbd examples for 128 stages
> >
> > hello all,
> >
> > here are some more a188/1 bbd prototype examples,
> > this time using an 128 stages ic (mn3006).
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Originally the BBD module A-188-1 was planned only for two types of BBD
circuits which are still in production: 1024 and 2048 stages. But we decided
to offer the module even with obsolete BBD circuits as long as quantities
last they can be used as well (unfortunately with some modifications for
certain BBD circuits how we recently discovered). From our point of view a
model with 4 different chips does not make much sense as we have only the
BBD circuits with 1024 and 2048 stages in production quantities available
and are able to get them in the future. We have only limited quantities of
the obsolete BBD circuits with 128, 256, 512 and 4096 stages available and
we had a lot of problems to get them (I did not tell you all the problems we
had to get these circuits as I didn't want to bother you with purchase
problems).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von ph@comcast.net
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. April 2006 04:59
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [Doepfer_a100] BBD question: which one?
>
>
> On 4/24/06 2:35 PM, "Robair, Gino" <grobair@prismb2b.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the examples, Ingo.
> > Here's a strange question for you (and Dieter, if has some
> thoughts about
> > it): how does one determine which bbd (which number of stages)
> to purchase,
> > without hearing and trying each one? Is it possible to describe
> the sound
> > and behavior of each bbd succinctly? The two I tried at
> Musikmesse clearly
> > sounded different from each other, though I can't remember which they
> > were...
>
> i'd really love a model with maybe 4 different chips( i know this
> was voted
> down with good intentions/reasons) but with 4 or more chips and
> the ability
> to pick which is used OR use any or all that seems ideal in some ways, i
> know there are downsides, but i'd love to hear the multiple chips together
> in series or parallel in the same circuit.
>
> best,
> phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>