Doepfer

In terms of groove and swinging, does anyone have an opinion on how
the Schaltwerk compares to the P3 and TR-909?  I know some people that
say that the Schaltwerk has absolutely no groove, ie. sounds way too
mechanical, no swinging feel available.  I have to agree in some
regards.  With my Schaltwerk experience, the only option to get
somewhat of a swing going is to delay a track or too, but you can't go
beyond value 001 without making it sound bad.

If you listen to a lot of Microhouse (stuff that people like Ricardo
Villalobos, Richie Hawtin, and Magda spin), the 4/4 beats constantly
have a good swing to them.  There's something special as to how the
snares click and how the hats go.   I'm trying to achieve something
like that.  Perhaps it's something more software derived as stuff like
Ableton Live has three different swing functions.

On the TR-909 when using internal mode, the sounds are triggered by an
internal clock mechanism, ie. the individual sounds are not triggered
by MIDI messages.  Given that there's no internal sound engine, the P3
has no choice but to operate via MIDI but I'm told that the resolution
is supposed to be good enough to give similar effects like the 909.

Thoughts?

Hi

> In terms of groove and swinging, does anyone have an opinion on how
> the Schaltwerk compares to the P3 and TR-909?  I know some people that
> say that the Schaltwerk has absolutely no groove, ie. sounds way too
> mechanical, no swinging feel available.  I have to agree in some
> regards.  With my Schaltwerk experience, the only option to get
> somewhat of a swing going is to delay a track or too, but you can't go
> beyond value 001 without making it sound bad.
This is valid for the Schaltwerk and other sequencers I know.
The best resolution of the swing factor has the Linn /Akai MPC-Series.

I own a Jomox XBase 09, which has a nice swing parameter (though its 
resolution is not better than the Schaltwerk): you can draw notes 
forward(!) and backward. The "drawing forward" (the note comes earlier 
than the original beat) is a very urgent aspect for cool swing stuff.
The best swing solution I know can be found in emagic/apple Logic.


> If you listen to a lot of Microhouse (stuff that people like Ricardo
> Villalobos, Richie Hawtin, and Magda spin), [...] Perhaps it's something 
> more software derived as stuff like Ableton Live has three different swing functions.
For Richie Hawtin I assume Linn MPC-60 (or successors).

Florian

the mpc's and the asq10 i found have  ' the ' a swing 
  
Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander@consol.de> wrote:
          Hi

> In terms of groove and swinging, does anyone have an opinion on how
> the Schaltwerk compares to the P3 and TR-909? I know some people that
> say that the Schaltwerk has absolutely no groove, ie. sounds way too
> mechanical, no swinging feel available. I have to agree in some
> regards. With my Schaltwerk experience, the only option to get
> somewhat of a swing going is to delay a track or too, but you can't go
> beyond value 001 without making it sound bad.
This is valid for the Schaltwerk and other sequencers I know.
The best resolution of the swing factor has the Linn /Akai MPC-Series.

I own a Jomox XBase 09, which has a nice swing parameter (though its 
resolution is not better than the Schaltwerk): you can draw notes 
forward(!) and backward. The "drawing forward" (the note comes earlier 
than the original beat) is a very urgent aspect for cool swing stuff.
The best swing solution I know can be found in emagic/apple Logic.

> If you listen to a lot of Microhouse (stuff that people like Ricardo
> Villalobos, Richie Hawtin, and Magda spin), [...] Perhaps it's something 
> more software derived as stuff like Ableton Live has three different swing functions.
For Richie Hawtin I assume Linn MPC-60 (or successors).

Florian



         

 		
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> I own a Jomox XBase 09, which has a nice swing parameter (though its 
> resolution is not better than the Schaltwerk): you can draw notes 
> forward(!) and backward. The "drawing forward" (the note comes earlier 
> than the original beat) is a very urgent aspect for cool swing stuff.
> The best swing solution I know can be found in emagic/apple Logic.

Yeah, I used to own an Xbase09 too.  Seemed to have more groove.  The
problem with MPCs and software sequencers like Logic / Cubase is that
they're not 16 step sequencers.  You gotta tap the beat in or click
every beat.

well ive used mpc and jomox and various other hardware sequencers and i can say that each creates its unique feel and results , the results what counts for me .The results of  ' tapping ' in beats using the mpc i found to be unique and also VERY groovy.If i was looking for swinging beats the Mpc is The first sequencer i would go for.The x0x layout does make it quicker in someways to draw beats but the Mpc and asq10  i found gave results that were really quirky and when tapping beats out my own off timing lead to intersting and quirky off fbeat shuffles and stuff which i wouldnt probably have logically drawn in with x0x style machines .The mpc opened up a world of swinging microhouse and electronica beats for me .I have done and do electronica and microhouse and i know the style and effect you mention , i also owned the 909 and know how it works for swing.Sometimes rigid precision is cool though , swings nice but so is mechanical for some creative stuff.( for me anyone) 
   
   
   
   
      > I own a Jomox XBase 09, which has a nice swing parameter (though its 
> resolution is not better than the Schaltwerk): you can draw notes 
> forward(!) and backward. The "drawing forward" (the note comes earlier 
> than the original beat) is a very urgent aspect for cool swing stuff.
> The best swing solution I know can be found in emagic/apple Logic.

Yeah, I used to own an Xbase09 too. Seemed to have more groove. The
problem with MPCs and software sequencers like Logic / Cubase is that
they're not 16 step sequencers. You gotta tap the beat in or click
every beat.



         

 		
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Hi regimental1200

> Yeah, I used to own an Xbase09 too.  Seemed to have more groove.  The
> problem with MPCs and software sequencers like Logic / Cubase is that
> they're not 16 step sequencers.  You gotta tap the beat in or click
> every beat.
I don't know the MPC (though I' think, it might be interesting), but for 
logic it is not true. Get to "Event edit", select the step rate at the 
lowest left corner, activate the MIDI IN button, and play. More details 
(entering pause, or legato) can be found in the manual of Logic ;-).

It is quite similar to the handling of the SH-101 or JX3P Sequencer.

Florian

Do you think a MIDI controller with MPC-like pads connected to a
sequencer like Cubase or Ableton would be able to achieve the results
of a full fledged MPC or is the internal sequencer really too unique?


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
<Florian.Anwander@...> wrote:
>
> Hi regimental1200
> 
> > Yeah, I used to own an Xbase09 too.  Seemed to have more groove.  The
> > problem with MPCs and software sequencers like Logic / Cubase is that
> > they're not 16 step sequencers.  You gotta tap the beat in or click
> > every beat.
> I don't know the MPC (though I' think, it might be interesting), but
for 

> logic it is not true. Get to "Event edit", select the step rate at the 
> lowest left corner, activate the MIDI IN button, and play. More details 
> (entering pause, or legato) can be found in the manual of Logic ;-).
> 
> It is quite similar to the handling of the SH-101 or JX3P Sequencer.
> 
> Florian
>

Hi regimental1200

> Do you think a MIDI controller with MPC-like pads connected to a
> sequencer like Cubase or Ableton would be able to achieve the results
> of a full fledged MPC or is the internal sequencer really too unique?
As I wrote: I do not know the MPC, so where from should I be able to 
answer the question?

Anybody else is able to answer?

Florian

well i kind of tried this.Unless i am mistaken i couldnt find any softrware that did the autonote repeat trick the mpc can do and i also have found cubase sx really dodgy for sequencing midi? this maybe me , i have a midex though but still somehow i never felt cubase sx was good on the timing?(anyone else find this?) .From my own experience i found trying to take this appraoch of replacing 1 piece of hardware with software and an interface rarely worked , ive tried with softsynths and the real ones and couldnt get the same results or feel and immediacy and i did try working mpc' like' in cubase witha  controller  but somehow the fact you have no screen and nothing but those rubber pads makes for a unique sequencing experience in some ways.If you set the mpc to groove a little whatever you seem to do comes out sounding cool , its timing is a joy and i am finding software midi sequencing really depressing these days .You could geta  similiar effect with mpc like controller
 and software though and working with pads itself will yield different results than keys - dont ask me why it would be any different but i found it is and gives different results , pads are Way better , especially those soft rubber ones .. . .

regimental1200 <regimental1200@yahoo.com> wrote:          Do you think a MIDI controller with MPC-like pads connected to a
sequencer like Cubase or Ableton would be able to achieve the results
of a full fledged MPC or is the internal sequencer really too unique?

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
<Florian.Anwander@...> wrote:
>
> Hi regimental1200
> 
> > Yeah, I used to own an Xbase09 too. Seemed to have more groove. The
> > problem with MPCs and software sequencers like Logic / Cubase is that
> > they're not 16 step sequencers. You gotta tap the beat in or click
> > every beat.
> I don't know the MPC (though I' think, it might be interesting), but
for 
> logic it is not true. Get to "Event edit", select the step rate at the 
> lowest left corner, activate the MIDI IN button, and play. More details 
> (entering pause, or legato) can be found in the manual of Logic ;-).
> 
> It is quite similar to the handling of the SH-101 or JX3P Sequencer.
> 
> Florian
>



         

 		
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In my opinion you just need to find a hardware/software
combination that works best for you. I started using Performer
when it was a MIDI only app and found it to be a very good
sequencing enviorment with very flexible swing and quantize
options. That has alot to do with "feel".
I also use Reason for creating tracks
and have started using my Oberheim DMX for drums again.
Many of my Hip Hop clients use and love various MPC models
along with Tritans, Motifs etc...
There is something to be said for a hardware box that just
"does it's thing" That said those devices also have their limits.
Choose what makes you most comfortable for the type
of music you make.

BTW this is Soy Sos of Tuff Sound Recording.
tuffsoundrecording.com
I am new to this group and am awaiting
my first Doepfer rack. It will be used mainly
for signal processing in combination with
my APR 2600 and studio/performance setups.
This is what I'm getting:

A-100G6 with PSU2                                          
A-121 multimode filter                           
A-101-1 vactrol multi mode filter                          
A-125 phase shifter                                               
A-188 1-B (1024 stage) analog delay                  
A-136 distortion / waveshaper                          
A-119 external input / envelope follower             
A-180 multiples                                                        
A-138b mixer

No it wont. the internal sequencer is that unique. also for groove  
check elektron gear. www.elektron.se

d



On 19 jul 2006, at 10.11, Florian Anwander wrote:

> Hi regimental1200
>
>> Do you think a MIDI controller with MPC-like pads connected to a
>> sequencer like Cubase or Ableton would be able to achieve the results
>> of a full fledged MPC or is the internal sequencer really too unique?
> As I wrote: I do not know the MPC, so where from should I be able to
> answer the question?
>
> Anybody else is able to answer?
>
> Florian

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I tried an MPC2000xl a couple of times.  Was impressed when I hooked
it up to a Novation DrumStation.  The pads were all velocity and time
sensitive, you could do all these fancy snare rolls, volume and speed
all shifting.

In terms of replacing hardware with software, I've had good
experiences in terms of sampling.  I replaced an Akai S5000 with
Ableton Live and it works beautifully.  I trigger it from the
Schaltwerk and modulate all parameters with a Drehbank.


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, q v s f u e k p s v h s l w
<izimizam@...> wrote:
>
> well i kind of tried this.Unless i am mistaken i couldnt find any
softrware that did the autonote repeat trick the mpc can do and i also
have found cubase sx really dodgy for sequencing midi? this maybe me ,
i have a midex though but still somehow i never felt cubase sx was
good on the timing?(anyone else find this?) .From my own experience i
found trying to take this appraoch of replacing 1 piece of hardware
with software and an interface rarely worked , ive tried with
softsynths and the real ones and couldnt get the same results or feel
and immediacy and i did try working mpc' like' in cubase witha 
controller  but somehow the fact you have no screen and nothing but
those rubber pads makes for a unique sequencing experience in some
ways.If you set the mpc to groove a little whatever you seem to do
comes out sounding cool , its timing is a joy and i am finding
software midi sequencing really depressing these days .You could geta
 similiar effect with mpc like controller
>  and software though and working with pads itself will yield
different results than keys - dont ask me why it would be any
different but i found it is and gives different results , pads are Way
better , especially those soft rubber ones .. . .
> 
> regimental1200 <regimental1200@...> wrote:          Do you think a
MIDI controller with MPC-like pads connected to a
> sequencer like Cubase or Ableton would be able to achieve the results
> of a full fledged MPC or is the internal sequencer really too unique?
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
> <Florian.Anwander@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi regimental1200
> > 
> > > Yeah, I used to own an Xbase09 too. Seemed to have more groove. The
> > > problem with MPCs and software sequencers like Logic / Cubase is
that
> > > they're not 16 step sequencers. You gotta tap the beat in or click
> > > every beat.
> > I don't know the MPC (though I' think, it might be interesting), but
> for 
> > logic it is not true. Get to "Event edit", select the step rate at
the 
> > lowest left corner, activate the MIDI IN button, and play. More
details 
> > (entering pause, or legato) can be found in the manual of Logic ;-).
> > 
> > It is quite similar to the handling of the SH-101 or JX3P Sequencer.
> > 
> > Florian
> >
> 
> 
> 
>          
> 
>  		
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